The Boston Red Sox

[90Q45blue]

I hear you and Buud were discussing my prophetic statement about Zito's mid-game failure.

Congrats to you and all Boston fans....BUT...you GOTTA beat the Yankees, for me, ya gotta beat em.

Nick

[I H8 UR DSM]

Yes, the Yankees have the most storied history in baseball. Yes the Yankees have been the most successful franchise of the past decade and the most succesful history of any sports team. No doubt about that. That Yankees mystique has played a big hand in luring talent from other teams. But c'mon, with huge contracts dangled in front of them, these guys are putty in Steinbrenner's hands.

Steinbrenner is not the richest owner is baseball..sorry guy...and its shown over the years, that when ownership does want to fork over the $$ they can win the championships. You're also forgetting the fact that although they win the champioship, Atlanta has dominated the NL, in a way that the yankee's have or try to dominate the AL.A year that Anaheim won, or Marlins won, were years that their ownership forked out $$'s to win.

Of course it's not but if you paid attention the keyword was "nearly" and according to the Boston Globe, the Yanks have a $180 million payroll as opposed to the Sox' $105. Now I'm no math major but that's pretty close to double, wouldn't you say?

No, i wouldnt...because if you know what kind of contract that $25 million that would make it 'double' could buy, might win them the championship...Also if you are talking about the payroll that makes a difference, IE. Salary of players on field, the Yankee's are not that high above the Redsox, and thats just the fact..i can get the salaries if you'd like...but the yankee's pay large sums of money to players who they have traded, and had to pick up remaining parts of salaries, big star minor league players who's salary's factor into that number...

You sure? I think I can see your pinstripes from here.

Yes, im definitly sure. Being a 'fan' [fanatic] about any specific team, takes away from you to be objective, and a skewed view on reality

See, here you failed to mention that a HUGE chunk of Steinbrenner's paycheck comes from his stranglehold of the television market.

UM?? What? Is Yes larger than the Turner networks? Is Yes larger than some of these other owners business ventures? Hell no...he just chooses to invest his money in the team, risking lost profits, where other owners would choose to maximize profits for the cost of not winning (IE. Seattle. Known that they run their team as a business, trying to turnaround more money, and not worried about championships, which is they GM stepped down)

And that 'stranglehold' (which is totally the wrong word) is what allows the yankee's to pay large sumps of money to all the small market teams.

Riiiigghht. That's like saying my mom can slap on some boxing gloves and go toe-to-toe with Mike Tyson.

Last time i saw your mom she wasnt exactly in 'fighting' shape....

[either way that comparison is rediculous]

NOBODY in the league can play the big money game with the Yankees.

Oh, im sorry..i thought we were talking baseball, not No Limit Hold'em.

It's absurd for small market teams like the A's, Kansas City and Montreal to shell out the kind of money the Yanks do. Just not economically feasible for teams that have a hard time selling 10,000 seats per game. Also, it's "Beane," not "Boone." Ask Steinbrenner which GM he'd rather have at the helm right now and we'll see...

1. You do not have an understanding on how the management/business of sports run. The first thing you learn is that the responsability to sell tickets and fill the stadium falls on factors other than having a team that wins every year. Did you know the LA Clippers are the 3rd most profitable team in pro sports??

2. Well, if steinbrenner can have any player he wants, i dont think he'd have too much trouble having any GM he wants....

I never said the Yanks had a bad farm system I just stated the fact that the A's had a terrific one that's produced some great talent over the year's (McGwire, Ecks, Chavez, Giambi, Zito, Hudson, Mulder) and are much more dependant on said system as opposed of throwing money at players and reeling them in. In fact, I'd say the A's have had the best farming system of the past ten years. Most of the starters on this year's A's roster came up from their farming system.

I would put it up there with the yankee's farm system, but the arguement that the A's is better, is one you would never win.

Alright, I've had a year's worth of head butting these past few weeks. Gotta go watch the game now! Go SOX!!!

[I H8 UR DSM]

That curse has tried to be lifeted several times, but to no avail. I really don't see it happening this year. It would be nice, but not likely.

I love how your team loses and its blamed on a curse, LMAO.....but if they 'win' its because the team is so great....Reality.

[I H8 UR DSM]

Yeah...that was me. Go Bo'sox!

Nick

Its interesting on how the Sox dont have their rotation now though...Pedro will be scheduled to pitch game 3...then if they want him to come back in game 6..that will only be 3 days rest...I think its going to be up to how well Lowe can pitch, because i dont think they can afford to fall behind 2-0 by the time pedro comes around

[I H8 UR DSM]

oh my god

I just got back from the "riots" outside of fenway, and all I can say is WOW. There were people flipping cars, climbing onto buildings (and jumping off!), girls flashing, crowd surfing.... wow.... I was REALLY suprised, the cops didnt even come till like 45 minutes into it- I thought they'd be there already. By then the whole area was in chaos.. the flipped car was leaking gas all over the place and there was a flaming t-shirt not too far away. Scary.

Anyways the cops came with their riot gear and nightsticks and after another hour or so managed to clean everyone out. It was a crazy night though - I got a whole disposable camera's worth of pictures to show you guys when they get developed.

Those Yankees Suck shirts are ALL OVER the place on game days... if you guys want me to pick them up or something and send em out I'd be happy to.

Man I hope everyone had a good night - I certanly did. Stand by for pics!!

Everyone' hates the guy on top.....I dont think there is every any rioting after the yankee's win a 1st round playoff series, lol....

Like i said before, its a no win situation for the Yanks....if they win, its because they are supposed to win...if they lose, They will get attacked by flamboyant sox fans with bad grammar I'd much rather see the Cubs beat the yankee's then the redsox....then they will know they beat the 'best'

[Aztek72]

...if they lose, They will get attacked by flamboyant sox fans with bad grammar

Speak for yourself, Einstein...

...The last time I saw your mom she wasn't exactly in 'fighting' shape....

[either way that comparison is rediculous ]

Steinbrenner is not the richest owner is baseball..sorry guy...and its shown over the years, that when ownership does want to fork over the $$ they can win the championships. You're also forgetting the fact that although they win the champioship, Atlanta has dominated the NL, in a way that the yankee's have or try to dominate the AL.A year that Anaheim won, or Marlins won, were years that their ownership forked out $$'s to win.

Again, putting words my mouth. I NEVER said he was the richest owner in baseball. But since we're on this subject...

1. The Yankees are by far, the most profitable team in baseball. Since you brought up the Turner vs. YES networks argument and since you're too damn lazy to put up some facts and numbers, I'll do it for ya here: In 2001 the Yankees earned $58,000,000 from local, radio and cable revenue. The Braves? Second place with a revenue of $49,000,000. Seem close enough? Sure if you ignore the fact that Braves regular season games are regularly broadcasted nationwide on TNT while YES is only accessible nationwide via Directv and other satellite providers. Now, I'm no math major and I'm sure of the other guys here aren't either. But any idiot with half a brain can see which team is more profitable here. Pound for pound, Steinbrenner tears Turner a new one here. The Yankees also have the largest fanbase by a significant margin. In an early 2003 survey, 17% of those polled were Yankees fans, Atlanta came in second with 11% and the others weren't even close. The Mets came in third at 6%... Having a wide-reaching fanbase that now includes hordes of Japanese followers translates to huge merchandise revenue which coincidentally, isn't part of the revenue sharing system.

2. But enough of all this numbers-crunching, egg-head mumbo-jumbo. Let's forget about the dollars and sense and let's just use common sense. For the sake of simplification, let's compare a sports team owner to your average joe grocer. Like Mr. Steinbrenner, Joe the grocer has a multi-stream income. Aside from Joe-Schoe's Groceries, he owns a small repair shop, let's call it Slick and Quick Lube. Down the street, Jiffy Lube opens up shop. Joe faces the reality that they're locked in competition but in order to hire the best service technicians and friendliest associates, he needs to shell out more bucks. Can Joe afford to shell out the big moola? Sure but that would put his cash flow in a bind- he'd be pulling out funds from his grocery store to fund his repair shop operation. Basically, it's a great idea but just not economically-sound. Sure Joe might win for a month or so, but Jiffy Lube's deeper pockets ensure it'll come out on top in the end.

In short, Steinbrenner's corporation is DEPENDENT on his team, the Yankee's ARE his business so of course it makes sense for him to invest top dollar in the club. It wouldn't make sense for the Angels owner to allocate funds from his billboard business to fork out $180 million payroll for a club he bought for $184 now would it?

I find it funny how you didn't really the concept of MLB revenue sharing and how imbalanced revenue sharing really is. [quote=" I H8 UR DSM No, i wouldnt...because if you know what kind of contract that $25 million that would make it 'double' could buy, might win them the championship...[/quote]

Contradicting an earlier post where you had this to say...

[quote=" I H8 UR DSM Go ahead, say "give billy bean XX amount" and make a promise...thats just speculation, and isnt based on any sort of psychic ability you have. [/quote]

Fair enough. Still doesn't and never will change the facts that the Yanks have the biggest payroll and by a large margin. But yeah, let's see those numbers. It'd be nice...for a change. [quote=" I H8 UR DSM Yes, im definitly sure. Being a 'fan' [fanatic] about any specific team, takes away from you to be objective, and a skewed view on reality[/quote]

Then what the hell are you doing trashing Red Sox fans in a Red Sox forum, oh Mr. Objective? Read the entire post and you'll see that I've had nothing but praise for the Yankees organization. You on the other hand...

[quote=" I H8 UR DSM UM?? What? Is Yes larger than the Turner networks? Is Yes larger than some of these other owners business ventures? Hell no...he just chooses to invest his money in the team, risking lost profits, where other owners would choose to maximize profits for the cost of not winning (IE. Seattle. Known that they run their team as a business, trying to turnaround more money, and not worried about championships, which is they GM stepped down)

And that 'stranglehold' (which is totally the wrong word) is what allows the yankee's to pay large sumps of money to all the small market teams.[/quote]

Sure thing, 'monopoly' sounds like a better word. I've already covered this issue in mind-boggingly exhaustive detail, so please refer to the above details.

[quote=" I H8 UR DSM Last time i saw your mom she wasnt exactly in 'fighting' shape....

[either way that comparison is rediculous][/quote]

Hardy...Har...Har... Momma jokes are so first-grade but ahhh what the heck...

"Your momma's so fat....the last time she saw 90210 was on the bathroom scale" HAHAHA...:oface [quote=" I H8 UR DSM 1. You do not have an understanding on how the management/business of sports run. The first thing you learn is that the responsability to sell tickets and fill the stadium falls on factors other than having a team that wins every year. Did you know the LA Clippers are the 3rd most profitable team in pro sports?? [/quote] And from the looks of it, neither do you. Someone with in-depth knowledge of the inner-workings of the sports business would not compare the formula for winning in the MLB with profitability of the LA Clippers. They're two entirely different markets. NBA superstars and basketball apparel are the most marketable in the world. You won't see Nike signing Barry Bonds to a $100 million shoe contracts...Why not? Baseball's just not as easily marketable. Did you know that while I was in the Sahara, Michael Jordan was the most famous American while most of the kids laughed at a sport involving grown men "swinging their sticks" and "taking balls?" That was a Clippers team loaded with superstars and sitting in the second largest metropolitan area in the country sure doesn't hurt jersey sales either.

Teams like the Marlins have little choice but to squeeze out the most bang for the buck out of their payroll and that means very few superstars on their roster.

[quote=" I H8 UR DSM I would put it up there with the yankee's farm system, but the arguement that the A's is better, is one you would never win. [/quote]

This one's very debatable....

That's all the time I'm gonna waste on you. For my Red Sox brothas, COWBOY UP!!!!

[fiznat]

Flamboyant maybe, but bad grammar? "Jeter swallows" is a perfectly grammatically correct sentence.

[fiznat]

lol that said though, I really am dissapointed in how our fans decided to celebrate last night. Flipping cars and destroying property disrespects the legacy of the team as well as anyone who was affiliated with the game. It ruins the name of the thousands of other perfectly civil fans out there and honestly, I feel bad for the people who's stuff got trashed. All of that was fun to watch, no doubt, but it was extremely childish and uncalled-for. I thought we had at least a LITTLE more poise than that. I cant even imagine what will happen if we beat the Yanks here at Fenway... people are going to have to lock their damn doors and cover up their windows. That's sad.

[Aztek72]

Yeah, that was screwed. Drunken hooligans looking for excuses to stir up a ruckus. Those damn UMass Amherst clowns are the worst bunch of rejects on the face of the planet.

If anyone tried to trash my property, in honor of Pedro, I'd greet them with "Mr. 45." "Say hahlo, to my lito frenh!!!"

[fiznat]

heh you'd need a LOT of bullets last night. pics are getting developed today.

[Aztek72]

I can't believe it when I saw it on t.v. That's a shame man, it truly is. Real Red Sox fans have been dying for a win like this and *** clowns like that gotta **** up the celebration for everyone.

Speaking of punkass fans, you see those A's fans heckling the team after D.J. and J.D. collided for that pop-up? Boy that punk was lucky I wasn't there, I'd surf the crowd down there and ring his neck.

[fiznat]

Yeah that tool with the big yellow hat? That's horrible too. He got his though: Budd said he saw a cop tag him right in the back of the head on TV. Sweet.

[I H8 UR DSM]

Speak for yourself, Einstein...



Again, putting words my mouth. I NEVER said he was the richest owner in baseball. But since we're on this subject...

1. The Yankees are by far, the most profitable team in baseball. Since you brought up the Turner vs. YES networks argument and since you're too damn lazy to put up some facts and numbers, I'll do it for ya here: In 2001 the Yankees earned $58,000,000 from local, radio and cable revenue. The Braves? Second place with a revenue of $49,000,000. Seem close enough? Sure if you ignore the fact that Braves regular season games are regularly broadcasted nationwide on TNT while YES is only accessible nationwide via Directv and other satellite providers. Now, I'm no math major and I'm sure of the other guys here aren't either. But any idiot with half a brain can see which team is more profitable here. Pound for pound, Steinbrenner tears Turner a new one here. The Yankees also have the largest fanbase by a significant margin. In an early 2003 survey, 17% of those polled were Yankees fans, Atlanta came in second with 11% and the others weren't even close. The Mets came in third at 6%... Having a wide-reaching fanbase that now includes hordes of Japanese followers translates to huge merchandise revenue which coincidentally, isn't part of the revenue sharing system.

2. But enough of all this numbers-crunching, egg-head mumbo-jumbo. Let's forget about the dollars and sense and let's just use common sense. For the sake of simplification, let's compare a sports team owner to your average joe grocer. Like Mr. Steinbrenner, Joe the grocer has a multi-stream income. Aside from Joe-Schoe's Groceries, he owns a small repair shop, let's call it Slick and Quick Lube. Down the street, Jiffy Lube opens up shop. Joe faces the reality that they're locked in competition but in order to hire the best service technicians and friendliest associates, he needs to shell out more bucks. Can Joe afford to shell out the big moola? Sure but that would put his cash flow in a bind- he'd be pulling out funds from his grocery store to fund his repair shop operation. Basically, it's a great idea but just not economically-sound. Sure Joe might win for a month or so, but Jiffy Lube's deeper pockets ensure it'll come out on top in the end.

In short, Steinbrenner's corporation is DEPENDENT on his team, the Yankee's ARE his business so of course it makes sense for him to invest top dollar in the club. It wouldn't make sense for the Angels owner to allocate funds from his billboard business to fork out $180 million payroll for a club he bought for $184 now would it?

I find it funny how you didn't really the concept of MLB revenue sharing and how imbalanced revenue sharing really is.

Contradicting an earlier post where you had this to say...



Fair enough. Still doesn't and never will change the facts that the Yanks have the biggest payroll and by a large margin. But yeah, let's see those numbers. It'd be nice...for a change.

Then what the hell are you doing trashing Red Sox fans in a Red Sox forum, oh Mr. Objective? Read the entire post and you'll see that I've had nothing but praise for the Yankees organization. You on the other hand...



Sure thing, 'monopoly' sounds like a better word. I've already covered this issue in mind-boggingly exhaustive detail, so please refer to the above details.



Hardy...Har...Har... Momma jokes are so first-grade but ahhh what the heck...

"Your momma's so fat....the last time she saw 90210 was on the bathroom scale" HAHAHA...:oface And from the looks of it, neither do you. Someone with in-depth knowledge of the inner-workings of the sports business would not compare the formula for winning in the MLB with profitability of the LA Clippers. They're two entirely different markets. NBA superstars and basketball apparel are the most marketable in the world. You won't see Nike signing Barry Bonds to a $100 million shoe contracts...Why not? Baseball's just not as easily marketable. Did you know that while I was in the Sahara, Michael Jordan was the most famous American while most of the kids laughed at a sport involving grown men "swinging their sticks" and "taking balls?" That was a Clippers team loaded with superstars and sitting in the second largest metropolitan area in the country sure doesn't hurt jersey sales either.

Teams like the Marlins have little choice but to squeeze out the most bang for the buck out of their payroll and that means very few superstars on their roster.



This one's very debatable....

That's all the time I'm gonna waste on you. For my Red Sox brothas, COWBOY UP!!!!

Yes you did exhaust that topic...with all facts? not really.

Fine, the yankee's are the 'most profitable team in baseball', although, the honest truth, is that this year, is the FIRST in their history that they are operating in the red. And that is a fact (being that other teams didnt this year, that would arguably make them not the most profitable team)...but yes, their Manchester affiliation makes their franchinse one of the most valuable. But you have to consider when u speak of YES, youare refereing to the Biggest baseball market, soccer, and the NJ nets.

Yankees media contract is not exclusive to the YES Network.

The yankee's make the unimaginable amounts of money from merchandising, and the fact that the 'NY' symbol is renound as the most recognizable sports symbol in existance.

The part about it not being economicly feasable is an owners choice...The Angels had an attendance problem after the fans SAID, we are not coming to the games until you put a winning product on the field (it was almost known as a small sports fan revolution, the first time fans basically 'striked' against their team) so he was forced to put a quality team on the field...he did, sold out...made ticket revenue, but we'll see how long he keeps those guys around....we all saw it with the Great Wayne and his Marlins....bought a high payroll team, won the series...got money for a new stadium....took that money, bought 2 new hotels...and screwed the fans...he could have invested that money into the team and players, but chose not to.

Most owners would say do we want to win ? yes. Is it worth us to operate in the red to win? no.

Are you saying that the Yankee's have a monopoly??

The mom joke wasnt so much an attack, but your comparison was weak...your mom isnt a pro boxer, so her fighting tyson isnt the same as low salary pro baseball players facing high salary pro baseball players. The yankee's arent better because they have better players..they are better becaus they have 'more' good players.

i dont understand your 'teams like the marlins' statements, since its been showed that they can have high payroll, and can win.

The NY Knicks were $40 million over the cap in ball this year...they didnt win....the NY rangers were (dont have the numbers on my desk) $15 mill more then the second closest team (?)...they didnt win. So the Yankee's are higher payroll..why does that mean they automatically have to win? the players still have to perform...and especially in a 5 game series, you cant keep pushing the payroll fact as the reason for winning....Thats why i say take the cubs for example..why cant they beat the yanks? Their 1 and 2 starters can match up fine...all they have to do is win their 2 games each

OH..and your momma's so fat, she cant even jump to conclusions.

[Aztek72]

LOL That momma joke's hilarious man, I gotta write that one down.

Jesse my main man, like I said, I'm not wasting anymore time responding to the economics of baseball. Besides, my fingers are all cramped up...

Fiznat, get those pics posted already man!

[Rockenreno]

aztek, don't feel bad, he uses the exact same arguments for basketball. Unfortunately he's not a fan of any sport because it would get him too involved. A shame he lives such a shallow life;)

[90Q45blue]

Objectivity in sports is like saying you have no opinion on your economical status....it's just not true. I mean c'mon, you GOTTA have a preference to which team wins a game.

Nick

[fiznat]

lol you watchin the cubs? hahaha 3-0 cubs with a man on 3rd right now, only one out and its BOTTOM OF THE FIRST! hahahahahahahaha yeahhhhhhh cubs!

[fiznat]

hahah nevermind make that 4-nothing, 2 outs, man on 2nd, STILL BOTTOM OF THE FIRST

[Mr1der]

indeed, this game is already over, I think the Marlins' spirit is gonna be shattered for the rest of the game, maybe series...

[Mr1der]

uh oh

[fiznat]

lol wtf! I didnt even see that happen! I was lookin at somethin else and all of a sudden its 5 - 4?!?! what happened?!

[Mr1der]

three home runs:(

[Mr1der]

I hope I'm not the only one watching this game!