The Absolute BEST Use of $20 You'll Ever Find.

[audtatious]

This forum IS a place to discuss topics and will remain so (in a civil manner). As you can see we have a number of staff members watching threads here and they are not afraid to step in.

[APEXi240]

Kind of a shame though that we need a "number" of staff members in one forum. This Versa forum shouldn't need that much policing...but thank you.

Back to topic...sort of...I agree with MoD about Hyundai's midsize offerings. Nissan, Honda, and Toyota have much more appealing vehicles in that segment.

An Elantra will be going on my short list of vehicles to look at when the Versa is dead and gone though.

[AZhitman]

Hyundai made Ward's 10 best engines in 2009 with their new Tau V-8. Nissan

'Bout damn time. VQ has been on it for 11 straight years.

[AZhitman]

Its now forever, he won't be back.

...and it's also been forwarded to his ISP and local law enforcement.

I don't put up with morons making threats. Nor do I tolerate abusive emails to my staff.

Back on topic!

[mcheddadi]

Damn I always miss all the fun!

yeah versa is nice, but those new Kia SOUL are serious business. got in one and the finish was top notch and the space in those things is CRAZY! btw, I love the wierd styling. I don't know if its got those awesome crazy rear recline seats like the nissan cube but between the versa, the cube and the soul, i'd take a soul please! small cars are finally starting to get appealing and thats a GOOD sign

[VersaMG08]

...and it's also been forwarded to his ISP and local law enforcement.

I don't put up with morons making threats. Nor do I tolerate abusive emails to my staff.

Back on topic!

Permanent ban is ok, but local law enforcement? That sounds pretty harsh. What did he say that was enough to get them involved?

[audtatious]

'Bout damn time. VQ has been on it for 11 straight years.

where you been? It was 11 years a few years ago

[audtatious]

Permanent ban is ok, but local law enforcement? That sounds pretty harsh. What did he say that was enough to get them involved?

There's more to it than what was posted here. It's handled. Let's get back on topic

[WDRacing]

Kind of a shame though that we need a "number" of staff members in one forum. This Versa forum shouldn't need that much policing...but thank you.

Most of us browse ALL of NICO. So threads that see alot of traffic always have staff guys reading them. For the most part we just participate in conversations. Versa doesn't "need" anything. It's a decent forum that usually does a good job of policing itself. You guys have established a pretty loyal group of readers/posters.

Just remember...we're always watching

[jdansmith]

For my last new car purchase I looked at the Versa , Sonata, Altima and Lancer,we Settled for The Sentra. The Versa has its appeal and if it was for me and not my Wife I would have bought the Versa with the Lancer and Sentra in a dead heat tie for a close second. The Altima will be on the list again when the kids are older. Now I have new car fever again and the Cube will be added to the list. The Sonata is a much better car than it was a few years ago but I do not think I'll buy one unless it's well optioned and $15,000.

I know several Versa owners who love the car and are hooked on the CVT and it's a much better car overall than the Accent. The AZHitman is right, $20 gets you a lot. By the way I have a 91 Sentra with 165,000 miles and runs like a clock.

[Bubs daddy]

BY SARAH A. WEBSTERDetroit Free PressJune 8, 2006

Maybe Hyundai Motor Co. drivers don't need that 10-year, 100,000-mile warranty after all.

The South Korean automaker known for its value pricing -- all its vehicles sell for less than $29,000 -- delivered a jaw-dropping performance in J.D. Power and Associates' annual survey on new-vehicle quality, which was released Wednesday.

Hyundai was the No. 1 non-premium brand in the United States, edging past Toyota, the Japanese brand whose rock-solid quality reputation has been shaking Detroit's dominance in the nation's auto market for years.

Overall, Hyundai was No. 3 in this year's report, behind No. 1 Porsche and No. 2 Lexus, Toyota's luxury brand, and right ahead of Toyota. Last year, Hyundai was No. 11, so the leap made Hyundai the third-most improved nameplate this year.

"We're very proud and very excited," said Don Dees, vice president of service for Hyundai Motor America, the subsidiary of Hyundai that sells and distributes new cars and trucks in the United States. "Our objective is to move up and become No. 1 in everything we do."

Even Toyota Motor Corp., whose products topped 11 of the 19 categories, acknowledged the growing pressure from Hyundai. New Hyundai drivers reported 102 problems per 100 vehicles, compared with the 106 problems reported by new Toyota brand owners.

"There's no question that Hyundai is coming on strong and doing a tremendous job," Jim Lentz, Toyota group vice president and general manager, said in a conference call with journalists. "They are going to become a bigger and bigger player in the marketplace."

Quality is always a top concern for new car and truck buyers. So the top-notch quality performance likely will give a boost to Hyundai sales, which are already up 4.5% this year, and help the automaker achieve its growth targets.

Hyundai -- which has a North American headquarters in Fountain Valley, Calif., a new $1.1-billion plant in Alabama and an engineering and technology center in Superior Township -- is aiming for 500,000 U.S. sales this year and 1 million annual sales by 2010.

The company will certainly have a lot of selling points from this year's J.D. Power report:

Five of the seven 2006 models that Hyundai sold ranked in the top three for their category.

The Hyundai Tucson was the No. 1 compact multi-activity vehicle. Three Hyundai cars took second-place spots: the Elantra compact car, the Tiburon sporty car and the Azera large car.

Hyundai's most popular vehicle, the Sonata, ranked third in the highly competitive midsize car segment.

Only the company's Santa Fe SUV, which is being redesigned for the 2007 model year, and the Accent subcompact car did not make the top three slots in their respective categories.

What's more, two of the top-performing vehicles, the Sonata and Azera, were brand new in 2006, making the performance more spectacular. Automakers usually take a quality hit the year they launch a product because it usually takes time to work out all the new-vehicle glitches.

"That is probably the thing I'm most proud of, because that bucks the normal industry trend," said Dees, whose career has included stints with Toyota and Chrysler. "We're launching great, great products."

Hyundai's assembly plant in Alabama, which builds the Sonata and Santa Fe, finished 10th in plant quality out of 73 plants in North and South America. That made the plant among the best plant introductions in the last decade. The facility has capacity to build 300,000 vehicles a year.

Dees said there's no secret to Hyundai's performance.

"The success of that is planning, preparation and great training," he said. "You had a brand new plant, a brand new product ... a brand new workforce, and to come out of the gates ranked 10th out of 73 plants is outstanding.

[Bubs daddy]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/0...powe/


Modified by Bubs daddy at 2:33 PM 6/22/2009

[Rockhound]

While I agree with the sentiment, Bubs, I do think that JD Power's "Initial Quality" surveys are a crock of crap.

My reasoning is that a) they only survey owners of new cars within the first 90 days of ownership, b) the survey incorporates a "design component" in addition to "production quality", and c) those two disparate aspects are reported as one misleading score.

The number one complaint reported by new Mini owners? Small cupholders. How this is in any way an indication of 'quality' or 'reliability' I'll never know.

Another niggling discrepancy is that the spread in the ranking is misleading. Lexus ranks #1 with 84 "problems" per 100 vehicles. Mini comes in dead last with 165 per 100. Lexus only beats the "industry average" by 0.24 problems per car. One must also take into consideration the attitudes and expectations of car buyers in different demographics. People that buy a new Porsche rarely buy such a machine as a daily driver and don't expect it to necessarily function as one, whereas the dude who plunks down the cash for a new Bimmer will likely be much more tweaked by a rattling glovebox than a new Aveo owner. It's just not apples to oranges in that respect.

It also raises eyebrows that automakers pay to publish this data in advertisements and can even hire JD Power consultants to assist in improving their scores. Like telling Mini (BMW) that they need to include cupholders sized for a big slurp. Say what you will about Consumer Reports, but at least they don't allow their data to be used in advertising - a move I can't help but respect.

When you break it all down, all it really serves to tell you is that there is really little difference between most brands. But all that said, I do think it's telling that Hyundai is making their way to the top in surveys such as this, no matter their ambiguity.

[fjwagner]

good points Rockhound! I tend to put minimal stock in such surveys and instead rely on my own observations and discussions with other car owners.

PS: Did you move from OKC to Tulsa?

[Rockhound]

^ Exactly. It seems to me most folks are still in a honeymoon period with their new car 90 days in - and even if they do detect flaws, many folks will not be willing to admit buyer's remorse that early on.

No, I've never lived in OKC, I've been in Tulsa for 9 years. I grew up in Hutchinson, KS before that. Going to school in Stillwater was as close as I needed to get to Norman!

[Bubs daddy]

I know that as well. Still, they're near the top instead of the bottom, a much better position.

Only three companies are on course to sell more cars this year than last year. One of them is Hyundai.

[Rockhound]

I know that as well. Still, they're near the top instead of the bottom, a much better position.

Only three companies are on course to sell more cars this year than last year. One of them is Hyundai.

I agree 100%.

I see their reputation rising considerably with the Genesis pair - I think the Japanese will have their hands full when the lessons learned from these two cars trickle down to the rest of their lineup.

And as MotorTrend put it, if the Genesis Sedan is 'almost there' compared to a Lexus LS (for nearly half the price) imagine what will happen if Hyundai produces a car similar in price to the LS.

[AZhitman]

All good points. Let's not lose track of the original point of the post.

Hyundai builds a damn good car.

I loooove the Azera's styling, fit and finish.

I abused the ever-lovin' piss out of a Sonata on a road course a couple years ago (and it survived).

I have driven an Elantra and found it to be passable.

Like I said, the Accent, being their bargain-basement offering, is trying to compete with a car that's a bit more "substantial". Not a great position.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Like I said, the Accent, being their bargain-basement offering, is trying to compete with a car that's a bit more "substantial". Not a great position.

It's a result of the two companies' different approaches at the segment. Hyundai built a cheap car to sell for $10k. Nissan built a car to sell for $15k and then stripped it down to sell at $10k. So even though the Nissan has lost a lot of its "filler," what remains is (great word choice) absolutely more substantial. The two cars were never really "supposed" to compete. The Accent tops out at $15k fully loaded...cheaper than the base price for an SL Versa. Not that being more expensive is something to brag about in the subcompact market, but it illustrates the cars' very different origins. The Accent began its life as a $10k car. The Versa was tweaked to reach down to that price point.

The Sonata and Azera are both ten million times better looking than the Saturn-ripoff that is the new Accord.

[Red Devil]

Anything built below a certain pricepoint isn't going to have the best build quality/reliability. Dash rattle anyone? Regardless, Hyundai has been making great strides recently to become a better car company as has Kia. The Hyundai Genesis and Genesis Coupe are world class cars and the styling on the Kia Soul and Forte are right up there with the other brands.

You have to remember, in the 70's and 80's Honda, Nissan and Toyota were in a similair position. I'm sure there are some people around who remember when people thought it ludicrous to pay over $30k for a glorified Toyota.

Don't dismiss the Korean brands as crap. Chevy, Chrysler, e.t.c. did the same with the Japanese in the 70's/80's and look where they are now.

[VersaMG08]

Anything built below a certain pricepoint isn't going to have the best build quality/reliability. Dash rattle anyone? Regardless, Hyundai has been making great strides recently to become a better car company as has Kia. The Hyundai Genesis and Genesis Coupe are world class cars and the styling on the Kia Soul and Forte are right up there with the other brands.

You have to remember, in the 70's and 80's Honda, Nissan and Toyota were in a similair position. I'm sure there are some people around who remember when people thought it ludicrous to pay over $30k for a glorified Toyota.

Don't dismiss the Korean brands as crap. Chevy, Chrysler, e.t.c. did the same with the Japanese in the 70's/80's and look where they are now.

What do you consider crap then?

[Andrews Chalmers]

What do you consider crap then?

I'm not Red Devil, but I can't think of a major automobile manufacturer that produces only crap.

There are particular models that are crap, but crap being relative. Being a Versa owner, I wouldn't have the gall to dismiss Hyundai/Kia's entire lineup as being crap.

Hyundai's offerings like the Genesis, Elantra, are pretty darn good for their value in their segment. The Sonata, while aging and in dire need of an total redesign, had an interior redone this year and the work is pretty impressive.

Kia's new Forte is getting good reviews and the Soul looks to be a competitive vehicle in the segment.

[fjwagner]

What do you consider crap then?

Chevy Cobalt and Aveo to name two. Suzuki does not impress me at all as they fall apart.

[Red Devil]

Most Chevy and Chrysler products, any chinese automobile and a few others.