The $67 Oil Change

[BBISHOPPCM]

I went to Team Nissan in Manchester, NH today and had an oil change and alignment done. I began having my oil changes done at the dealer when I bought the versa, and 45,000 miles later, I continue to do so. I switched to Mobil-1 synthetic @ 35k, and the cost jumped from $30 or so (for conventional oil) to $54 for synthetic. I choked the difference, as I feel it's better for the harsh driving I do.

Imagine my surprise when that $54 oil change suddenly jumped to $67 when I got my bill. They cite "higher oil costs" and some crap, but I know its due to lack of sales revenue due to a stale economy. I believe this is the very last time I have minor service done at my local dealer. I did my own oil changes for five years (I've been a licensed driver since 2001), and feel I will be dusting off my creeper and floor jack 3,000 miles from now.

Has anyone else seen sudden price increases at their dealers, or is this just specific to my local stealership?

[CodeRed]

Change it yourself. It only cost's me about $40 for royal purple and an OEM filter.

[longo]

From a dollar standpoint, here's my out of pocket cost for a first rate, check everything, lube the hinges, clean the air filter, keep track of the tread wear, and write all the oil change details in the Versa Service Manual.

$22.00 for 4.4 ltrs Castrol Syntec (My Versa engine likes Penzoil Platinum better)

$6.oo for an oversize, excellent PL 14610 PureOne filter.

http://www.amazon.com/review/p...nts=1

Done by Me.

[BBISHOPPCM]

I know, I know. I used to do all my maintenance (oil, basic lube of hinges, coolant, water pumps, head gaskets, timing belts, shocks). I just got lazy... well, I'll be lazy no more!

[superskunk]

$67 is not that bad i pay close to $80

[dusred]

I just got my corolla serviced and it cost me $85.00 from the dealer.

I'll be doing my services from now on.

Yes, dealers rape you on services.

[Jemdawg]

$67 is not bad when the oil lasts at least 10000 miles. I use Royal Purple and that is the cycle I run, the filter stays pretty clean too. You'd actually spend a bit more using dino-oil and chainging it every 3750 miles.

[1_Sleek_Versa]

Hey what do you expect.

They wanted to charge me almost 30$ to change the engine's air filter. I don't know if you ever looked at yours but it's simply two clips and you remove the front panel of the airbox. Remove old filter, put new one it then reclip panel. Can be done under 20 seconds.

On their maintenance price list, they charge 99$ to change the cabin filter, excluding the price of the new filter. (LOL) I argued with the service manager last friday. I told him that I feel like being ripped off.

I decided to do everything myself from now on. What a bunch of idiots.

When I wen't for my first oil change last friday, there was a lady there with a Versa. She made them install a Remote starter and did her 20 000km maintenance. She got a 900$ bill. She was yelling like crazy. It was like 500 for the remote strater and the rest for the maintenance.

Crazy Nissan. I almost regret buying my car for that only problem. Sorry for the long post. lol

[marlin29311]

DIY saves so much more money, and it helps you understand the expensive machine you own better!

My local Midas charges $65 for a synthetic oil change, but it actually becomes cheaper in the end, considering you can take synthetic out to 10000 miles or so.

Filter changes are so bogus, it's so much easier to do it yourself - saves $$$ too!

High five to everyone that does their own auto work!

[longo]

I am often disturbed by the AutoMakers sneaky little tricks to get us back to the dealership's service dept....so they can 'service' you.(Don't get me started on what they charge and how they do a Honda Automatic transmission fluid change!)

I know that the Nissan Cabin Air Filter Scam will bring tears to your eyes when you get the bill,, but I also have seen how unnessesarily complicated is is to change out a Honda filter. With the Honda, after taking out the glove box, you have to remove a dash reinforcing strut that covers the filter. To do this involves some heroic efforts to get at the hidden bolts that tie it all together with the main dash itself. Certainly not a 'plug and play' filter change like the engine air breathers..(on most cars)

This whole process of making it as difficult as possible for the Car Owner to do the changes Him/Herself seems to a combination of Dumb Engineering Tricks or outright lack of common sense by the builder.

The other possibility (this is the one I am leaning toward) is Outright Devious Planning by the manufacturers to make you bring the car back for outrageously expensive service charges to perform a simple filter change.

In both cases, in the Versa and the Honda, the solutions to both problems can be overcome once and for all by us owners...the Versa's with a trouble light and a pair of Vise-Grips, the Honda with a small angle grinder, a 4' piece of scrap metal and 2 sheet metal screws.

Oh, BTW I buy all my replacement filters for both the Honda and the Versa off eBay or Amazon.com I hate dealing with a Parts Counter guy while he is wearing a Bank Robber Balaclava.
Modified by longo at 9:42 AM 10/17/2008

[1_Sleek_Versa]

One thing I was wondering...

In the maintenance booklet, Nissan has scheduled maintenance plans. Each of them is fairly expensive, like over 150$.

150$ to check the fluids, inspect wiper blades and wear of the brakes. Everybody can do it. So if I just let Nissan do my oil changes and I do the regular inspection myself, can they **** up my warranty if something breaks???

[longo]

Toyota Owners were/are in this same legal quagmire.

If you do your own Oil Changes, or go to some Quickie Lube shop, you had better be able to have the complete documentation for all the scheduled oil changes from mile 0ne.

With all the Toyota Engine Sludge issues, lots of DIY guys wound up wishing they had gone to the dealership for the changes so it would be recorded in the Company Computer and therefore off the hook for the engine damage.

If something happens to the other parts covered by warranty that they would have checked, then I think they would have a good case for holding up on the warranty and saying, prove that you checked the brakes, or what ever part failed.

Tough call Pal.

[07Vsdn]

here is what i don't understand....

you didn't know how much it was beforehand?

our cost is around $32 every time. and i ask each time.

i could do it myself... however, i figure i'm paying about $10 or so for someone else to get their hands dirty while i watch tv or read a magazine.

worth it to me...

[sooner4x4]

Not only are the dealer prices totally outrageous, but the quality of the work is not always competent.

One winter the weather was quite bad so I broke down and took a car to the dealership for an oil change. When I got it back, I did a walk around and noticed the hood was not latched. Not a big deal but most people would have drove off with a hood that could fly open. Get home and pull the stick. The oil level is way overfilled. Next day back to the dealership to complain. I insist on a complete new oil change with me watching. The technican has an old very dirty large plastic bottle he uses to draw oil from a big spigot coming out of the wall. The mark on the bottle to indicate the proper level was about an inch thick, no way they ever get the correct amount of oil.

I bought a used truck where the oil filter had been put on cross threaded by a Goodyear shop (Quail Springs). Needed to wrench the oil filter all the way off and new one back on. Gross incompetence.

Longo is right about the cabin filter on the Honda (Odyssey?). The first time you have to cut out a very thick plastic brace before you get to remove the large steel brace. Total PITA. By comparison, the Toyota Sienna van cabin filter takes less than 15 seconds (they still charge 1/2 hour labor if you are stupid enough to take it to Toyota for that).

Easiest engine air filter to replace ever, is probably the Versa. Takes just a few seconds.

Not sure why some companies choose to make some things difficult and other maintenance items super easy.

Whenever possible do it yourself.

[longo]

You are right about the Honda Odyssey being the culprit.

There is no way the average MiniVan- Moms would want to tackle the 'Change the Cabin Filter' job...and these are just the people the dealerships love to get back for those scheduled maintenence scams. Heaven help you if you have any 'Honda Odyssey electric door issues.

The Odyssey's bad automatic transmission problems have been well known for many years. Burn one up and they put in another one with the same problems..guess what...that one burns up as well.

Now before I get all Hyper and need an Oxygen bottle to get me breathing right again I have one last warning...this one about the Versa maintence at 100,000 miles. Might make you want to consider trading before that.

The 'Long life Sparkplugs' that the Versa has on the engine need to be replaced at that service interval.

Now all you shade tree mechanics out there that want to tackle this one, there goes a very looong messy Saturday afternoon.

The manual starts off with, First drain the radiator..see where this is going?

[alonsorules8]

Well for me I get free oil changes for life at the Nissan Dealer in my area. I got the free oil changes and state Inspection for free for life by going to the new car care clinic at the dealership.

I only pay for the 7500 mile services and the the major services like the 15k, 30k.

[mkaresh]

Toyota Owners were/are in this same legal quagmire.

If you do your own Oil Changes, or go to some Quickie Lube shop, you had better be able to have the complete documentation for all the scheduled oil changes from mile 0ne.

With all the Toyota Engine Sludge issues, lots of DIY guys wound up wishing they had gone to the dealership for the changes so it would be recorded in the Company Computer and therefore off the hook for the engine damage.

If something happens to the other parts covered by warranty that they would have checked, then I think they would have a good case for holding up on the warranty and saying, prove that you checked the brakes, or what ever part failed.

Tough call Pal.

Toyota Owners were/are in this same legal quagmire.

If you do your own Oil Changes, or go to some Quickie Lube shop, you had better be able to have the complete documentation for all the scheduled oil changes from mile 0ne.

With all the Toyota Engine Sludge issues, lots of DIY guys wound up wishing they had gone to the dealership for the changes so it would be recorded in the Company Computer and therefore off the hook for the engine damage.

If something happens to the other parts covered by warranty that they would have checked, then I think they would have a good case for holding up on the warranty and saying, prove that you checked the brakes, or what ever part failed.

Tough call Pal.

In short, document any work you do yourself. And be sure to do the stuff in the factory schedule.

[longo]

'Thing is, it's possible to keep receipts for purchased oil and filters, noting the date and mileage of the changes on the back of the bills, but the problem of the other items on the Service Schedule, DIY, can't be PROVEN.

If the dealership has a warranty issue with the powertrain that could have been caught in a service check by the dealership, I think they would have a good case to blame it on the owner.

"Documenting" that you looked at everything they would have checked off at the dealership is a pretty thin argument, if it came to that.

I have found that the OEM wiper blades are of very poor quality, the Conti. tires wear out incredibly fast, but the rest of my experience with our Versa shows it is pretty well put together, and with normal use and even casual owner maintenance it should last the 3 year waranty period without leaving you stranded. My point is, if - for example - one were to not have the dealership change out the CVT fluid at that very expensive shedule, or the plugs at the 100K interval, then if you had trouble under the 5-year powertrain period, you had better believe, the "Blame Game" would be on.

[DejaWiz]

$67 is not bad when the oil lasts at least 10000 miles. I use Royal Purple and that is the cycle I run, the filter stays pretty clean too. You'd actually spend a bit more using dino-oil and chainging it every 3750 miles.

QFT.

Here's a breakdown of costs when changing oil yourself, putting 12,000 miles on annually, and paying approximate department store prices:

DINO @ 3,000 MILE LIFE5 Quarts (V's take 4.125) @ $2.00 per quart = $10Filter = $5Price per change = $15Annual Changes = 4Annual Cost = $60

SYNTH @ 6,000 MILE LIFE5 Quarts @ $4.80 per quart = $24Filter = $5Price per change = $29Annual Changes = 2Annual Cost = $58

[Slither]

Aren't depreciation, financing, gas and insurance greater car piracy issues?

[1_Sleek_Versa]

^^^^

Sure we were getting there.

[darkwind25]

Wow it must be just the american stealerships that gouge everyone.we change 36.95 for a basic LOF,If the air filter needs to be changed,it"s just the price of the air filter.No labour.The guys have it out already to check it over,so why charge labour to install the air filter.If you want Mobile-1 oil then you only pay for the oil the labour and filter are still the same price.We do a full 20 point inspection with the oil change and its still 36.95.unless we find something more.replace wipers...you pay the price of the wipers.no labour ,air filter( earlier comment).small stuff like that is pointless to go crazy and charge customers for.If they keep it up they will lose the customer base and then slowly go down hill from there.

I'm glad at the dealership I work at,we don't gouge the customer so to speak.We do whats necessary and what the customer wants done.If we make a suggestion and the customer says no- we don't do it.But most of our customer are really and when we take them there air filter and show it to them,,they say replace it.In cabin is a little more work.but not 99.95+filter.labour and micro-filter 69.95.depending on price of micro filter.some of the newer micro filters are only 20.00 so 30.00 labour and the price of the filter.I think thats pretty fair-the guys doing the work have to get paid and not all of the techs are paid by the hour.I have one tech who's paid flat rate.I'm not gonna take up his time with small jobs like oil changes and micro filters.We leave him for the bigger jobs.

Sorry for draggin this on...but there was a few things i felt needed to be said.to defend some of the smalller dealerships liek the one i work for.

[MinisterofDOOM]

This is why I don't pay other people to change my oil. Well, one of many reasons. I changed my Q's oil this morning (takes 6 and 3/8 quarts with filter) for $15. I used dino oil, but even if I'd used synthetic it would have been under $30. Paying someone else more to do a poorer job (ugh, lube shop attendants) isn't my idea of value.

[sooner4x4]

QFT.

Here's a breakdown of costs when changing oil yourself, putting 12,000 miles on annually, and paying approximate department store prices:

DINO @ 3,000 MILE LIFE5 Quarts (V's take 4.125) @ $2.00 per quart = $10Filter = $5Price per change = $15Annual Changes = 4Annual Cost = $60

The assumption here is that dino oil needs to be changed out at 3000 miles. This Oil change interval is not necessary. A good quality dino oil can easily go 5000 or 6000 miles before needing to be changed. Nissan says it can go 7500 miles.

But everyone is free to do whatever they want and spend (waste) money as they see fit.

[MinisterofDOOM]

That's a MASSIVE overgeneralization. The ONLY way to determine if YOUR car with a certain oil can go beyond the 3000 mile OCI is to have the oil analyzed. Depending on maintenance history, condition, oil in question, etc. things can change a LOT. And if you have a car that consumes oil for whatever reason, you might end up adding enough oil by the end of that extended OCI to make it worth just changing at the standard 3000.

Also, even if you are able to safely run an extended OCI, the FILTER still needs regular replacing. Oil might go 6000 miles. Filter is a different story.

Also, where has Nissan said dino oil is good for 7500 miles? And in what car?

[scar]

Also, where has Nissan said dino oil is good for 7500 miles? And in what car?

Nissan employee lease cars are changed at 7500.

The 3000 mi change is just a way to get your money. Oil (and more important, it's additives) and filters have come a long way over the years. This ain't your granddaddy's motor oil.

A lot depends on your driving conditions. My driving is mostly highway, I use mobil 1 and change at 10,000.

[DejaWiz]

The assumption here is that dino oil needs to be changed out at 3000 miles. This Oil change interval is not necessary. A good quality dino oil can easily go 5000 or 6000 miles before needing to be changed. Nissan says it can go 7500 miles.

But everyone is free to do whatever they want and spend (waste) money as they see fit.

There are a variety of factors that will determine when the oil really needs to be changed. Things such as engine temperature, engine speed, crankcase pressure, and, as you mentioned, the quality of the oil.

But then again, oil is oil... it hasn't changed at all between 5000 years ago and now, so there's very little that the refineries can do to improve upon what they were bottling 50 years ago vs yesterday. Sure, they can add detergents and other additives to get the consumer to buy the more expensive units on the store shelves, but those don't protect the raw oil from breaking down at a much later time.

I absolutely agree that oil can go longer, as I typically have changed my dino oil between 4000 to 7000 miles. But I make my decision based upon how the vehicle is driven. I used to do mostly highway driving for my daily commutes for both work and school 10 years ago, so I felt the oil didn't need to be changed as often (this was in a '79 Chrysler Cordoba with a hard 186,000 miles on it..before I bought it). Also did the same in an '88 Ford Escort (which was rear-ended and totaled out, thus leading to the Cordoba, in case anyone was curios or cares).

3,000 miles is merely the safety point (worst case scenario). If oil has come such a long way over the years, we'd all be completely aware of which additives/formulas really do extend the life of the oil and provide a longer safety point. There's only one vehicle company I know of that used to endorse higher mileage intervals, and that's BMW. Not sure if they still do so or if there are other manufacturers that document/endorse it, but they used to put some kind of sensor in the crankcase that would eventually illuminate a dash light telling the driver it was time to change the oil. I have a friend that consistently went 7000-8000 miles before that dash light came on in his 318i.

[BBISHOPPCM]

DejaWiz, Mercedes-Benz also touts longer intervals. Like 12,000 miles. The ML320 had (if I recall) a 10 or 12 quart oil pan, and a sensor that measured either the viscosity or carbon content of the oil (possibly opacity?). My parents made the mistake of buying one of these rolling heaps of post-war German refuse. Dealer oil changes were mandatory for the warranty (you couldn't buy the oil filters anywhere), and cost roughly $400 a whack.

[longo]

Your last post got me thinking that all cars should have some sort of "OIL CHANGE ALERT" warning included in the jumble of mostly useless idiot lights on our dashes.

My old mint condition 1997 Buick Park Ave Ultra. langusihing in the barn has such a very usefull feature.

Don't laugh, this car on the highway can get better MPG"s than our Versa. (my wife won't let me sell it)

It seems to me that the Buick uses a simple system that keeps track of engine RPMs to caculate the oil life in percentage, marking down form 100% to 0.

[IMG][/IMG]

[DejaWiz]

The ML320 had (if I recall) a 10 or 12 quart oil pan, and a sensor that measured either the viscosity or carbon content of the oil (possibly opacity?).

Dealer oil changes were mandatory for the warranty (you couldn't buy the oil filters anywhere), and cost roughly $400 a whack.

$400 for a freakin' oil change!!!! Hope the motor oil wasn't the only lube they provided!

It seems to me that the Buick uses a simple system that keeps track of engine RPMs to caculate the oil life in percentage, marking down form 100% to 0.

Ahh, I recall those counters being present in select GM vehicles back in the mid to late 90's now that you mention it.

Kind of makes me wonder, though... how would these vehicles distinguish between dino and synth oil and adjust accordingly if it wasn't truly analyzing things such as viscosity with (example:) 5,000 miles vs starting viscosity, etc?