Temporary wheel block

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QuestMan
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Car: 2008 Nissan Quest

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Hi.

I have bought quest 3 month ago and got an issue with brake system. If you start engine and begin to accelerate (more than 15 mph), the right back wheel is blocked for a few seconds. In 99.9% cases this happens in first 20 seconds after the start driving. After this the car is driving well. ABS lamp doesn't react on this issue. If you drive less than 15 mph after the start, the problem is not observed. I have replaced all rear break pads and break liquid, this hasn't helped. I need advice, where is the problem?


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VStar650CL
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Sounds like a sticky caliper slide. When you changed the pads, did you grease both slide pins and make sure the rubber seals were good? Nissan ABS's will usually notice pressure differentials during initial self-test, so while it's possible an ABS solenoid could cause your issue, it isn't the likeliest culprit.

QuestMan
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Hmm... interesting idea, but I do not understand why does problem happen once after start but not at each brake use? Yes, one of the rubbers looked a bit defective but without cracks or any other defects, but everything was moving smoothly so I greased and assembled everything as it was. Anyway, I will replace pins and seals.

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VStar650CL
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QuestMan wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:18 am
Hmm... interesting idea, but I do not understand why does problem happen once after start but not at each brake use? Yes, one of the rubbers looked a bit defective but without cracks or any other defects, but everything was moving smoothly so I greased and assembled everything as it was. Anyway, I will replace pins and seals.
The only thing that backs the pads off the rotors when you release the pedal is the square-cut on the caliper piston seal. When you press the brake, the seal deforms instead of sliding, then springs back to its normal shape when the pressure is released. That doesn't provide much force to overcome a sticky slider, and if the pad is left tight against the rotor when the car is parked, stick-tion will develop after it sits for awhile and adhere the pad to the rotor. Then you get clunking or dragging when you try to move it again.

QuestMan
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Hi,

I have replaced pins for both calipers, rear wheels calipers. The problem still exists. Do you have other ideas?

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VStar650CL
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Are you certain it's the brake dragging and not something else going thump in the right rear? If it is the brake, the problem pretty much has to be in the ABS if it's a late model. If it's old then there might be other things. What year is the van?

QuestMan
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Yes, It is brakes. If you accelerate too quickly the car starts skidding. You also may find tires black track on the road after this. The car was manufactured in 2008.
When I start the engine and start to drive I also hear a strange sound from the rear part of the car. It sounds like servo engine works for a few seconds. What is it?

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VStar650CL
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Yep, that sounds like the ABS is locking it up. If there are no codes in the ABS then there's one other possible cause besides the ABS Unit, your Steering Angle Sensor could be failing to initialize properly and making the ABS think the car is skidding when it starts to move. If the SAS checks out then the ABS is probably faulty.

QuestMan
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Hm.. I have The ELM scanner FIXD. It doesn't show any error codes for ABS. I only have the error for two rear TMPS, they don't work and should be replaced. Could it be a result of TMPS fault?
How to check the SAS? When I bought the car the spiral cable didn't work and I replaced it. But I observed the problem before I replaced the spiral cable.

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VStar650CL
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No, TPMS shouldn't cause that, ABS only reacts to differences in wheel speed across an axle (say, one rear wheel turning faster than the other even though the car isn't turning), or to yaw. The SAS can create a phony yaw condition if it's lying or not initializing properly, which the ABS reacts to by using the solenoid on the wheel opposite the yaw to stabilize the car and prevent a spin. Most ABS-capable scanners can stream the SAS and the Yaw Sensor, but first try just turning off the VDC before you move the car. If that makes the problem stop, then the ABS is definitely responding to a bad input.

QuestMan
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Hi. I am sorry for delay with the answer. I have found cracks on the axel boots and decided to reset sas with wheels alignment after axel replacement. I will keep you informed about progress.

QuestMan
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A small remark.

I was trying to turn off the VDC system, pressing and holding the corresponding button on the panel near the door but the corresponding icon is not turning on the dash panel. Moreover, it is not turned on with other icons at self-testing at ignition.
I checked the button contacts and everything looks fine. The second idea was connected with a fuse element but as I understood, the VDC doesn't have the fuse element.

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VStar650CL
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No, the ABS Controller is responsible for TCS/VDC on an '08 Quest. Later models can have other stuff like Chassis Controllers, but yours doesn't have any of that. In fact, looking through the FSM, I was surprised to find your ABS is on the CANbus but doesn't throw codes. Diag on it is old school. That's plain odd for an '08, but the Quests always were red-headed stepchildren. Here's your manual by the way:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... %2Fbrc.pdf

The "VDC Off" lamp failing to turn on indicates you may have either a bad ABS or a wiring problem with the ABS connector. The switch is monitored directly by the ABS Unit, but the lamp gets turned on by the cluster via a CAN request from the ABS Unit. The first thing I'd check is whether there's voltage on one of the wires to the switch. It's a grounding-switch setup, so with the switch disconnected you should see voltage on one wire and ground on the other. Use a meter and not a test lamp, the voltage will come from a pullup resistor inside the ABS and won't light a lamp. If you don't see voltage on either of the wires then it would tend to point to a wiring issue with the ABS connector or possibly bad power to the ABS Unit.

QuestMan
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A small update of this issue. I was in the PepBoys but seems that they were too busy for my problem. Mechanic told that for quest he needs to connect directly to sas to reset it value, jumped into his car and drove out somewhere.

I found a guy with cool car computer and he was able to read the old error in abs module like "the connection with sas was lost". Now I am sure that sas generates wrong angle values. As I also understand, the self studying of sas in the Quest is impossible.

I also have found a car electric who promised me to help with this issue, we just need to find time for meeting.

QuestMan
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I have the continue of the story.

I was in a body shop today and asked them to reset the SAS. They told me that they did that when I was getting my car. But the most strange things started to do later. Now my wheels are blocked at any turn every time when I am turning (left or right, it doesn't matter). I returned to the body shop and told them about that. They tried to reset SAS again and again, and finally, it seems that they reset everything, because I also got the P0507 code. Finally, I removed the ABS fuse element just to turn off the ABS and safety drive at home. What is going on with my ABS system?

QuestMan
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The asb light is still off.

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VStar650CL
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Have you tried a new SAS? It sounds like yours is jumpy. You can probably confirm that with an ABS-capable scanner, unless the falsing is occurring at a period less than 20mS. Even then, you'll probably catch glimpses of nonsense in the readings. If the angle reading jumps whenever the brakes misbehave, that's a smoking gun. The P0507 is probably unrelated, that's usually caused by a dirty Throttle Body or miscalibrated MAF. Maybe they ran an IAVL without letting your engine reach 80C. The ECM will let you calibrate between 70~79C but there's a good chance of it causing misbehavior, especially if the IAVL is done in conditions of cold intake air.

QuestMan
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I have not tried a new SAS. It is expensive. Even if everything you are talking about is true, why I have not got that before? We can expect, that the values were jumping before and, as a result, I should be observing the wheels block during turning before, but earlier I could turn normally. I have found the description of the same problem that I had 2007-nissan-quest-abs-problem-t603166.html. Unfortunately, the topic caster did not mention a possible solution.
Yep, I saw that it is possible to do calibration using special magic manipulations with the ignition and gas pedal.
Do you know the cheapest scanner with ABS support?

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VStar650CL
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QuestMan wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 8:42 pm
I have not tried a new SAS. It is expensive.
Actually they aren't. Nissan charges a crazy price for them, but the part is made in China for Bosch and you can buy new ones out of China on eBay for as little as $100 (or used ones for as little as $50). The part number is 47945-AS500 and they're a common failure point on all the vehicles which use them.
QuestMan wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 8:42 pm
Do you know the cheapest scanner with ABS support?
Obviously I use the Consult3+ at the shop so I'm no expert on aftermarket scanners. Someone else will have to help you out with that.

QuestMan
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Update.

I was thinking today about my problem and decided to check the clock spring and SAS sensor. Actually, I also planned to disconnect SAS and return the ABS fuse element because it is impossible to drive without a speedometer, odometer, and with a portion of errors due to the ABS CAN being off. But I have found something more interesting.
SAS has two bumps that should be connected to the clock spring internal ring. In my case, they are not connected to each other. You can spin the clock spring but the internal ring of the SAS is still immovable. (see attachment) Temporarily I assembled everything back but didn't connect the SAS. The ABS light is off, took a few drives, but the wheels are not blocked when turning. Thus, seems that I need to install a correct clock spring.
Questions:
If I understand correctly, the SAS only needs for VDC system and it should not influence the ABS or SRS. Is it correct?
Can I drive with disconnected SAS while I will have not got a correct clock spring?
Attachments
issue.jpg

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VStar650CL
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QuestMan wrote:
Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:01 pm
If I understand correctly, the SAS only needs for VDC system and it should not influence the ABS or SRS. Is it correct?
Can I drive with disconnected SAS while I will have not got a correct clock spring?
That should be correct. The ABS braking functions should still work but the VDC will be in failsafe.

QuestMan
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Thank you.
Do you know the correct part number for the clock spring? I was choosing my current by model and year, and seems it was not a good idea

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VStar650CL
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Go to NissanPartsDeal.com and plug in your VIN number. Their dbase is the same as Nissan DPC, so the number it shows will be right for your ride. The clockspring may not be available separately, for a lot of models you need to buy the whole Combination Switch.


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