taking my 07 M45 for an oil change- regular or synthetic?

[davidyal]

I'm a relatively new owner of a 2007 M35 and need to take it for my first oil change.

Is there consensus on:-Regular vs Synthetic? what should I expect price difference to be-Dealer change vs local Jiffy Lube?

I'm in Dallas in case anyone has a reccomendation.

Chees

[szh]

I'm a relatively new owner of a 2007 M35 and need to take it for my first oil change.

Welcome to NICO!

Is there consensus on:-Regular vs Synthetic? what should I expect price difference to be

The first 10k miles ought to be done with dino. After that, the general thought is use whatever you want to ... as long as you keep your oil and filter change interval low enough (like 3750 miles), then even good dino oil is perfectly fine.

Good dino oil: Castrol GTX and Chevron Supreme 5W-30. In Dallas, you can also use 10W-30 without problems.

Good synthetic: Mobil 1 Synthetic 0W-40. There are others too, of course!

-Dealer change vs local Jiffy Lube?

If you do some search and reading here, you will find out why we STRONGLY recommend NOT using Jiffy Lube and equivalents. If you value your car that is.

Z

[300freekzx]

under 50k reg over 50k syn.

[szh]

under 50k reg over 50k syn.

Don't need to wait for 50k miles to use synthetic ... after three (four if you overkill) oil changes with dino, you are good to go with synthetic if you want.

Here is my schedule for new car oil and filter changes. Yes, it is more than recommended by the manufacturer, but it is also probably the reason my cars last a long time without engine problems.

250 miles - dino (overkill but I recommend it - see Mercedez owner's manuals! You can skip if you don't want to do it)..1750 miles - dino3750 miles - dino7500 miles - dino11250 miles - dino or synthetic

And so on ...

I switched from dino to Mobil 1 Synthetic at the 11250 mark on my 2003 M45 and am now at 72,500 on my car (5+ years) without any oil or engine problems of any kind.

Z

[M4T5]

Don't need to wait for 50k miles to use synthetic ... after three (four if you overkill) oil changes with dino, you are good to go with synthetic if you want.

Here is my schedule for new car oil and filter changes. Yes, it is more than recommended by the manufacturer, but it is also probably the reason my cars last a long time without engine problems.

250 miles - dino (overkill but I recommend it - see Mercedez owner's manuals! You can skip if you don't want to do it)..1750 miles - dino3750 miles - dino7500 miles - dino11250 miles - dino or synthetic

And so on ...

I switched from dino to Mobil 1 Synthetic at the 11250 mark on my 2003 M45 and am now at 72,500 on my car (5+ years) without any oil or engine problems of any kind.

Z

Why do you recommend not using synthetic after first oil change? Who states that you cannot? I will do a apples to oranges comparison, but would like to know why one engine can, but the Infiniti's cannot?GM Chevrolet Corvette: Comes with Fully Synthetic Mobil 1 oil from the factory and even states under the hood to only use Mobil 1 full synthetic. Is this engine of less quality? I seriously doubt it. Can you please tell why full synthetic cannot be used in the M's right off the first start? Full synthetic is engineered to not break down nearly as fast as "dino" (regular) type oils. Though I really doubt it is going to keep the piston rings from seating properly.Yes, I love the Corvette! I use it for comparison quite often. I mean, who wouldn't want one in their garage! Its' the best US domestic car made! IMO.

J

[M4T5]

Good dino oil: Castrol GTX and Chevron Supreme 5W-30. In Dallas, you can also use 10W-30 without problems.

Good synthetic: Mobil 1 Synthetic 0W-40. There are others too, of course!

Z

Why Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0W-40 and not Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 5W-30?? What is the difference between the two other than the Winter weight? 5W-30 is what is recommended in the owners manual.

Explain please.

J

[NightWatch]

Back in the olden days, when I used to walk up hill in the snow both ways to school in 90 degree heat.... Older engines used to require a break-in period to seat the rings properly. Synthetic oil was discouraged because it prolonged the break-in period, so the old addage of waiting for 10K miles before switching to synthetic was good advice. With today's high tech engines there is no longer a break-in period per say so you can switch to synthetic whenever you want.

[sdkhalsa]

Here is a dumb question. If the items that tend to make a car unsustainable at high mileage are things like transmissions, air conditioners, injectors, electronic control components; why get overly fixated on the difference between synthetic and conventional oil? In my opinion the most cost effective preventive maintenance items would be power flushing the transmission regularly, and flushing and recharging the air conditioner. Q45 Tech likes to emphasize changing out struts so that you don't trash the suspension components.

[szh]

Why do you recommend not using synthetic after first oil change? Who states that you cannot?

This is based on expertise advice I was given - person was pretty sharp on oils and engines, and I respect their opinion. I do not have any contrary experience to say it should be different.

I will do a apples to oranges comparison, but would like to know why one engine can, but the Infiniti's cannot?GM Chevrolet Corvette: Comes with Fully Synthetic Mobil 1 oil from the factory and even states under the hood to only use Mobil 1 full synthetic. Is this engine of less quality? I seriously doubt it. Can you please tell why full synthetic cannot be used in the M's right off the first start? Full synthetic is engineered to not break down nearly as fast as "dino" (regular) type oils. Though I really doubt it is going to keep the piston rings from seating properly.Yes, I love the Corvette! I use it for comparison quite often. I mean, who wouldn't want one in their garage! Its' the best US domestic car made! IMO.

J

No idea how to answer this point, other than to say that engines ARE different. What may be good for Chevrolet may not be fine for another engine ... and since I am not an engine expert, I follow rational thinking here.

If Chevrolet says "Only use synthetic on our Corvette engines", then I would not go against that advice!

However, since Nissan/Infiniti do not specifically say "you must use synthetic", my reaction is usually one of "use the best oil you can afford". However, since the expert advice was "use dino for the first 10k miles", that is what I do and recommend. It does not go against the mftr's specific recommendation one way or another.

Z

[M4T5]

Here is a dumb question. If the items that tend to make a car unsustainable at high mileage are things like transmissions, air conditioners, injectors, electronic control components; why get overly fixated on the difference between synthetic and conventional oil? In my opinion the most cost effective preventive maintenance items would be power flushing the transmission regularly, and flushing and recharging the air conditioner. Q45 Tech likes to emphasize changing out struts so that you don't trash the suspension components.

A good oil is prevention against premature internal engine wear. What costs more? A new engine, transmission, or A/C system? Answer: Engine. Why would you not be concerned about what it is being lubricated with? I sure would. Mine will get Full synthetic after my next free oil change!Also, why mess with your A/C system if it works perfectly fine? Though I have heard that you should have it checked for leaks, discharged, and refilled every 5yrs. This is in general, pertaining to all cars and trucks.Flushing the transmission at the 30K mi intervals should be good enough.

J

[szh]

Why Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0W-40 and not Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 5W-30?? What is the difference between the two other than the Winter weight? 5W-30 is what is recommended in the owners manual.

Simple answer: if you are going to go synthetic, then get a true synthetic. Otherwise, (particularly if cost is an issue) might as well stick to a good dino!

Longer answer: If you look at the material information on 0W-40 and 5W-30, you will see that the 0W-40 is "manufactured" differently. The 5W-30 is still based on Group 3 (as I recall) dino oil and is not a true "full synthetic".

Finally, perhaps as a result of this - and real testing too, I assume - 0W-40 has earned Mercedes Benz standards (229.3 as I recall), that the other Mobil 1 weights have not. This sorta confirms in my mind, that there is a difference.

So ... since both weights cost the same, might as well use the one that appears to be better. Since it is a wider range oil too, it can be used year round - almost no matter where in the US you live!

Z

[M4T5]

Simple answer: if you are going to go synthetic, then get a true synthetic. Otherwise, stick to a good dino!

Longer answer: If you look at the material information on 0W-40 and 5W-30, you will see that the 0W-40 is "manufactured" differently. The 5W-30 is still based on Group 3 (as I recall) dino oil and is not a true "full synthetic".

Finally, perhaps as a result of this - and real testing too, I assume - 0W-40 has earned Mercedes Benz standards (229.3 as I recall), that the other Mobil 1 weights have not. This sorta confirms in my mind, that there is a difference.

So ... since both weights cost the same, might as well use the one that appears to be better. Since it is a wider range oil too, it can be used year round - almost no matter where in the US you live!

Z

How could you use 0W oils in the northern cold climates? The oil would start out as a 40 weight viscosity. Right or wrong?The widest range oil weights (I thought) used were 10W and 5W oils. At least here in TX it is. Please explain/ clarify you last paragraph above please.

J

[szh]

How could you use 0W oils in the northern cold climates? The oil would start out as a 40 weight viscosity. Right or wrong?The widest range oil weights (I thought) used were 10W and 5W oils. At least here in TX it is. Please explain/ clarify you last paragraph above please.

Typical oils on the market are usually 5W-30, 10W-30, 5W-40 and 10W-40. Normally, oils are usually at one viscosity only and have additives to extend that range (which is why you would never want to use a simple "30" weight oil only in our cars).

In most northern parts of the US, the 5W-30 oil is perfectly fine for year-round use (although you could use 10W-30 or 10W-40 in summer in most places), and in most southern parts of the US, the 10W-30 oil is perfectly fine for year-round use (although you could use the 5W-30 in winter in most places).

My point was that the "nice" thing about the Mobil 1 Full synthetic 0W-40 oil is that you kinda don't need to worry about the outside temperatures in most of the US states. It works just fine in cold regions of the US in winter and hot regions of the US in summer. No reason to swap out the oil, except when it is needed

The real point is: there are only a few harder rules than others. Don't use a single-weight oil in car engines ever, and do change your oil and filter often enough to keep the engine happy!

Anything else is probably more than necessary (although plenty of people can, and will, feel differently).

Z

[M4T5]

Since I'm not knowledgeable on 0W oils.....wouldn't it be considered a single weight type oil that you are against??? I mean, why is it 0W? Does that mean that it has no viscosity rating at start up?Sorry, I guess the 0W oil is confusing me...............

J

[szh]

Since I'm not knowledgeable on 0W oils.....wouldn't it be considered a single weight type oil that you are against??? I mean, why is it 0W? Does that mean that it has no viscosity rating at start up?Sorry, I guess the 0W oil is confusing me...............

J

Uh, no, it is a range ... means the oil has effective viscosity of oils that range from 0 to 40 (as measured for SAE Engine oil). From a temperature perspective, this is good to use for all normal external temps in the US that you are likely to encounter.

This site:http://www.bobistheoilguy.com, and in particular, this page http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...id=55 has the a lot of information.

Z

[M4T5]

That's what I started to think after I posted it. Thanks for clarifying it for me. I guess it will be 0W-40 for me then.....assuming that 0W-30 is not available. Is that another grade that is used....or not widely used enough to find it?

J

[szh]

Since you live in Texas (hot in summer, only rarely cold in winter), you can use:

0W-40 (not common, but Mobil 1 Synthetic is available at Kragens here in California ... I do not know their sister store in Texas),5W-30 (very common oil, of course),10W-30 (very common too), and5W-40 (less common - but there are synthetic oils with this weight, and some dino and dino/synthetic blend too, as I recall)

with good results.

I have not seen 0W-30 ... which is not to say that it does not exist, just that I have not looked for, or seen it!

In terms of synthetic oils, since you live in a hotter climate, I'd try to choose the ones that "end in 40". Like Mobil 1 0W-40 and Amsoil 5W-40 (not commonly available, but does exist, as I recall). If Redline or Royal Purple make a 5W-40, those are probably excellent synthetic oils too.

Again ... just for closure: you will be fine with 5W-30 or 10W-30 too! Just that I might not pick the Mobil 1 Synthetic 5W-30 or 10W-30 ... use Amsoil or Redline instead for those oil weights, or even good dino (cheaper) like Castrol GTX 5W-30 or Chevron Supreme 5W-30.

Because the extra cost of Mobil 1 Synthetic 5W-30 does not seem to be worth it ... compared to dino 5W-30 or the other full synthetics in a 5W-30.

Z

[mjlyn]

I have a 2004 BMW 530i. The Oil cap says "BMW Recommends Castrol Syntec"When the dealer resets the maintainance computer the oil change interval on the inline 6 is 15000 miles. Why is it ok to go 15K (which will be a year or so for most people) on a BMW?

[szh]

Why is it ok to go 15K (which will be a year or so for most people) on a BMW?

SWAGS:

Probably because they include the oil changes in their car purchase so they want to minimize their cost?

If the warranty is done after 60 to 100k miles, and the long-term engine problems are outside that period, then the manufacturer does not care really - they will sell you replacement engines gladly, I suspect.

The bottom line: I really dunno why BMW uses such a long interval ...

My suggestion is if you want the best accuracy, then get an oil analysis done every few thousand miles for your vehicle (Blackstone Labs is a good place for analysis). If the oil holds up well, and protects your engine, for more then what we all recommend here, then follow that analysis outcome and extend the OCI!

For me, changing oil is relatively cheap insurance to ensure that the engine is getting the best chance of surviving a long, long time. Because I'd like the car to go a few hundred thousand miles ... well past the warranty period!

Z

[747driver]

BMW uses long oil change intervals because there is no need for shorter intervals. I use dino oil in my XJ6 and change it every 15000 miles. The engine has 225000 miles on it and a recent compression test indicates no loss of compression over all those miles. Jaguar's AJ16 engines routinely go 350000+ miles using the change intervals I mentioned above.

Mark

[747driver]

As far as the "use only dino oil for the first xx,xxx miles" mantra is concerned, automakers would explicitly mention it in the owner's manual if a real concern existed.

Mark

[szh]

As far as the "use only dino oil for the first xx,xxx miles" mantra is concerned, automakers would explicitly mention it in the owner's manual if a real concern existed.

Probably!

Like I think I said but perhaps was not clear about, this is not because I know any better ... only because an oil chemist person (who opinion I trust), said to do so. YMMV.

Z

[szh]

BMW uses long oil change intervals because there is no need for shorter intervals. I use dino oil in my XJ6 and change it every 15000 miles. The engine has 225000 miles on it and a recent compression test indicates no loss of compression over all those miles. Jaguar's AJ16 engines routinely go 350000+ miles using the change intervals I mentioned above.

Have you done any oil analysis to confirm that the longer interval is indeed fine to do? If so, great!

On the Nissan VK engines, there is enough blow-by, and the oil looks pretty darn dark with stuff in it after 3750 miles, that I will continue to be happy with my 3750 mile OCI.

The choice is, as always, yours to make!

Z

[mjlyn]

Probably because they include the oil changes in their car purchase so they want to minimize their cost?

I wondered about that a bit.....I wonder if the european spec cars (where i assume they dont have the free service for 45000 miles) have a different interval?

For me, changing oil is relatively cheap insurance to ensure that the engine is getting the best chance of surviving a long, long time. Because I'd like the car to go a few hundred thousand miles ... well past the warranty period!

I agree...i have no problem paying 40-50 bucks 4 times a year for an oil change....i just wonder how much of that is based on science and how much is marketing.

[mjlyn]

BMW uses long oil change intervals because there is no need for shorter intervals. I use dino oil in my XJ6 and change it every 15000 miles. The engine has 225000 miles on it and a recent compression test indicates no loss of compression over all those miles. Jaguar's AJ16 engines routinely go 350000+ miles using the change intervals I mentioned above.

Mark

747 Driver......are you saying that no car really needs shorter intervals? So if 15000 is ok on your Jag is that what you do on your M. Probably not because of the warranty....but once out of warranty what will your interval be on your M. Just curious.......

I guess I'd like it if someone on this forum could direct me to some technical info regarding what really happens to oil after given periods of time or mileage.

I know i will get comments about about oil changes being cheap insurance.....i'm fine with that.......I just wanna know how much of that is driven by Jiffy Lube and their 3months 3000 mile slogan vs actual science.

[747driver]

Have you done any oil analysis to confirm that the longer interval is indeed fine to do? If so, great!

On the Nissan VK engines, there is enough blow-by, and the oil looks pretty darn dark with stuff in it after 3750 miles, that I will continue to be happy with my 3750 mile OCI.

The choice is, as always, yours to make!

Z

I have a used oil analysis done every 3 years. None have indicated that the 15K mile interval was too long.

There's certainly nothing wrong in changing your oil as frequently as you do. I used to do the same until I started performing used oil analysis.

[747driver]

747 Driver......are you saying that no car really needs shorter intervals? So if 15000 is ok on your Jag is that what you do on your M. Probably not because of the warranty....but once out of warranty what will your interval be on your M. Just curious.......

I guess I'd like it if someone on this forum could direct me to some technical info regarding what really happens to oil after given periods of time or mileage.

I know i will get comments about about oil changes being cheap insurance.....i'm fine with that.......I just wanna know how much of that is driven by Jiffy Lube and their 3months 3000 mile slogan vs actual science.

I wouldn't presume to say that 15K was good for all cars. In fact, I'd say that as a matter of course you shouldn't exceed the manufacturer specified interval.

I follow Infiniti's recommendation on my M. Once the warranty is up I may start extending the interval but I'll do so by no more than 2K at a time. I'll have an analysis done every time I increase the interval.

[mjlyn]

Where do you send your oil for testing and how much does it cost?

[daveM45]

I read an article in Road and Track years ago that mentioned that natural oils tended to swell gaskets more then synthetics. Changing to a synthetic later on could cause gaskets to shrink leading to leaks. They mentioned that there was no firm agreement on this and also that it probably isn't an issue with modern engines.

That said I switched my 88 Mazda MX6 from Penzoil PZL Turbo to M1 around the 6 years 70K mark. Within 3 months I had a puddle of oil on the floor - oil cooler gasket leaking and also some minor drips around the valve cover. Convinced me...

Based on my extensive experience of that one car, I switched my 98 GS400 and the 2007 M45 to M1 at first change. If its more than a year old I'd stick to a good quality natural oil. Plus that is what the M's owners manual recommends.

[szh]

I have a used oil analysis done every 3 years. None have indicated that the 15K mile interval was too long.

That is good to know! Thanks,

Z