T3 on CA18DET?

[Gisqc1]

Just discovered about the CA18DET and read alot about it, went through all pages in here. Everyone says that a T3 is going to be laggy and not worth it on a 1.8liter. But i haven't saw any facts saying i boost X psi at X rpm on a T3... or maybe a very little and already forgot about them! So anyone running some T3 setup could hook me up with these? By the way, if it spools a bit later, wouldn't a set of good cams and maybe a little valvetrain works be enough to rev it a little higher and still get a very nice powerband?

Also on DSM and Honda Holsets are very popular, cheap and reliable! And they are using them on there 2.0L, 1.8L and even some ppl uses them on there 1.6L and seems to be happy with the spool they get. I'm looking at the HX35 mainly, most common one and easiest to come by. On Honda-tech some people see around 15psi a bit over 4k rpms on 1.8L, would u consider this laggy on a 1.8L? And that HX35 has a twin scroll housing that i would benefit by making a twin scroll manifold to get a better spool. (Anyone already experienced twinscroll/normal turbo spool difference?)

So my goals are to have about 300whp reliable. I was mainly thinking going on a KA-T with that holset until i found out about this motor. Sr20 is just to much money for what i need if i can get done cheaper with this motor! And this seems to be more reliable than a KA-T with stock forged internals.

I've read alot and saw most answer that T2 flanged (Gt28r, Gt28rs, T28 etc.) can get the job done. That's not the answer i'm looking for please! This would be a DD so lag isnt an issue as long as i have a good powerband in the upper rpm, it would even be good so when cruising around its just like a stock 1.8L.

Btw Dee would be nice if u could send me an email at [email protected], would be nice to talk a bit with you about this motor

P.S. sorry for such a long post, but i took my time and shouldn't be to hard to read!

[MeanGreenS13]

i have been running a T3 for months with no lag problems and im about to step up to an SC61... if i were you id just pick up a GT2871R, should be able to get reliable 300whp out of that and stay bottom mounted. just my .02

remember, efficency is key, you can have 300whp, but if your turbo doesnt spool till 5000rpm, theres no point. I made 352 on an SR with a GTI-R T28 that was ported and had upgraded wheels in it. it spooled YESTERDAY. Im going with an SC61 to push near 500. and im gonna still be on an (altho freshly rebuilt) [nearly] Stock motor

[Gisqc1]

What is ur T3 turbo?How many psi you see and at what rpm is it fully boosted?

That is what i wanna know!

There is also a money factor, an Holset with the manifold would be 1/2 of a gt28 price.

[r34 gtr]

A T3 is a good turbo. You just need to make sure it is properly sized. Plenty of different trims and housings available. You might look into the .48 T3/T04b (or T04e if you like to ball out) as it is very well suited to this motor. You will spool before 4k and it will make 350whp all day long.

The HX35 is another good turbo, but it might be a little big. I would be worried about the exhaust housing being too large and effecting spool time.

Mean Green S13 is using a Nissan r33 Gtst turbo I believe. Its not particularly large. Pretty sure he had his rebuilt, because stock they use ceramic turbine wheels and arent good for high boost levels (> 1bar).

GT28 is a great turbo, but a bit more costly than the others, being ball bearing and new. You shouldn't rule them out though, they come with warranties and thats a biiiig plus.

[Gisqc1]

Ok thanks, i would just love to have something a bit more DIY and in the same case cheaper, why i was interested in the holsets.

Now a HX35 might be to big ok, how bout with a twin scroll manifold? I haven't experienced the difference between normal and twin scroll manifold and i'm wondering if it is making a big difference? If anyone already experienced that i would love to know...

Btw hoslets turbos are really tough ones, no worries on that side.

Also usualy where you need to start considering getting bigger cams to have a nice powerband?

[Gisqc1]

Ok, i read alot of topics again and i must admit i was a little biased on my opinion. For someone who was looking for a ka-t where t2 turbos are basicly hair dryer i wasn't looking at that option the right way.

This would be cheaper if i get a used t28 from an sr and could probably hit 300whp... and even if i don't, 275 or 300... i am plenty satisfied either way! And since i don't really have turbo experience, that option might be easier for me to.

Of course the best would be to get a Gtir t28, but if i cant get my hands on one... are the s14/s15 t28 all Ballbearings? Which one are not? Cause i don't want to spend to much on a brand new gt28 (costy), and a used ballbearing turbo can be pain in the *** cause you can't rebuild it.

[themadscientist]

The lag on that big ***** T4 was barely noticable, T3 would be fine. A nice ar .63 housing should spool well.

[Gisqc1]

Damn you guys i make up my mind and now i have to think about it again!

By barely noticable, what rpms were u full boost!?

And i have no idea what a/r would be an holset HX35 that is the problem, i think its a bit bigger than .63

And to make it cheap enough to compete with an used t28 price i would have to build my own twin scroll manifold, which is some work of course! And not sure about that, but maybe i would need to upgrade cams with the holset to have a nice powerband? Or stock cams would do it?

[themadscientist]

I would be at full boost in the mid 4000s and it would just keep pulling exponentially stronger as the RPMs shot up. This turbo was a 50 trim full T04 with a .40 exhaust housing. I never messed with holsets, they were always generator turbos to me and I can't shake that image.

Let me stop you for a moment. Why are you building a manifold? How much power do you want? The stock manifold is a perfectly functional unit. Unless you want over 300hp there is no need to replace it or migrate from an internally wastegated T28 turbo.

[Gisqc1]

No, if i go for a t28 i'm going to use the stock manifold.

But if i go with the HX35, i would need probably a t3 topmount, and could use the twin scroll, would be much cheaper to make it then buy one in that case! (twin scroll or not, would be cheaper anyway!)

What about your t4, were you fine on stock cams, or you could of benifit of better cams for your powerband?

By the wway i love the fact that holset have a really good flow (similar to garett same size compared), VERY durable (they see 30ish psi all time on diesel trucks) and uber cheap! (250-350$ and i have one for sure!)

[themadscientist]

stock cams are fine. Throw some 256s or 264s in there with more lift and it would do even better.

[Gisqc1]

Btw, just read few facts about Gtir turbo being 0.86a/r, and was wondering if the a/r matter if its t2 or t3 flanged or either way lag would be the same on both turbo with same a/r?

As for the holset, from what i've read on dsm and honda forums of people running them, im sure i can get full boost by 4ishk rpm with a twin scroll manifold, lets say 4.5k to make it a 100% SURE facts. Would that be some decent lag on the ca and would the powerband still be good ? (Guessing somewhere in the 7ishk rpms? Guess stock cams will be the limit here?)

Unless i get my hands on a used gtir turbo i doubt i would run any sr t28, or buy any new t28 turbos... And even there, i read that gtir turbo are full boost by like 4k rpms... if so i would rather run the holset!

[themadscientist]

power goals?

The T04 replaced an S14 T28 which would come on boost in a blink of an eye on a bone stock CA18.

[Gisqc1]

Around 300rwhp on a stock bottom ends at least, probably stock head to.

And if spools are around the same, holset flow is much more better, and that setup would be alot more original!

[themadscientist]

You are doing what a lot of people do, including myself. You want a specific turbo and are tailoring your needs to justify said turbo. Just get that thing if it's what you want.

Here is a compressor map for the Holset

And here is one for the 50 trim E

I can't see the logic in building a manifold just to use a specific turbo when said turbo doesn't really do any better than one that will bolt onto what you already have.

[Gisqc1]

Aint T04 a t4 flanged that sure won't fit the stock manifold? Or you were talking about the t28?

Well i was pretty much set on the t28 until you tell me a T3 can do fine on the spool time and do great on the CA to be honest!

And YES an holset would do much better then a T28, or what you mean is that i'm not gonna use it enough to make it worth it? I'm thinking that i would rather run a bit less of boost to acheive same power goal if the spool time aint so different (GTIR t28/holset).

For the manifold... it's not that big of a worry i would actually like to make one, only if i need to tho.

So basicly, i was asking you how 4k-4.5k for max boost spool is on this motor? Still gives a good powerband?

[themadscientist]

If that map is right the Holset will flow well over 400hp worth of air but at some serious pressure. If you only need 300hp it would be like driving an office staple with a 12lb sledgehammer. I'm not saying don't, I am a slave to my goofy ideas too, just be honest with yourself that you are not getting the best turbo for the application.I'm not saying get the T4, you would have to build a manifold for that too. I am trying to point you towards any of the OE SR T28 type turbos as they have your power goals covered and are straight bolt ons.On my decade old CA18 with 150000 kilometers on it the S14 boosted so quick I almost put it through the fence at the shop because it snaped on like a switch. That's with a full exhuast and no cat but still with the restrictive iron outlet. Throw on a tubular outlet and it would come on quicker than a drunk fratboy.

[Gisqc1]

Ok, how about s14/s15 t28 dieing off at the top end (excludes Gtir t28)? Read that in a few post, still making a good powerband?

The problem is i want a used turbo, so s14/s15/Gtir. So far i only know that the GTIR isn't ballbearing, how about others? I sure don't want a used ballbearing turbo...

And for the holset i know it's not the best suited there, BUT its one of the cheapest t3 option and would get the job done with reliability. I do think that it would kinda be overkill for my goals and that i could aswell just build the motor to fully use it, but... WHY i would need more than 300rwhp(lol)? Don't answer i know people always want more! What i mean is you need to learn where to stop! And i wanna stop at 300(Or even 275 would do it... i bet i won't feel the difference)! (Guess i just made a good point for the t28 on that one! )

[Ca_Silvia]

My old Silvia had a GT28R and i had full boost (10psi) at 3400rpm and it never stopped pulling even with stock cams all the way to redline. And that turbo with a tune, 444cc injectors and N60 MAF will easily net you your desired power goals.

If you want to be different then take pride you have a CA, but dont make it un-naturally hard on yourself just to get youself around 300hp.

[Gisqc1]

Well i don't have a CA YET hehe, so.. where is redline for you!?

And with all the t28 version around, which one is the gt28r? some oem turbo? new one u bought?

[themadscientist]

mine never died out. It's still on the shelf ready to go on another engine in the future. Mine would pull all the way to the top with no sign of getting winded

[Gisqc1]

Which one you had? S14/S14 t28? GTIR t28? Some Gt28 u bought new? And where is redline for you

[r34 gtr]

Man, you want a good cheap turbo? look at the 16g/20g thread. I freaking love mitsu turbos.

[Ca_Silvia]

GT28R is a T28 Ball Bearing turbo, it is the OEM turbo from the s15 Silvia. Brand new can be had for under 800 bucks if you shop around.

Redline for me is 7500rpm, like is said i had a stock CA no cams, no head work.

[Gisqc1]

That is some good news! Now will have to decide if i buy a used non BB t28, or shop around for a new one... probably BB there.

Btw i did read the evo thread.. but i would need to make a manifold for this one to, not making it much cheaper and alot more of headaches..

[slw240sx]

around 750-800$ for a manifold and turbo combo is a drop in the bucket when you want to build a 300hp CA18.

i would say get a motor and get it running and then after while save up some cash and then start adding to the motor, learn it about it with hands on experiance before you throw all your money at it.

Jon

[Gisqc1]

Oh i'm sure not buying any parts before i get a motor, i just like to get things planned ahead, knowing with what setup i will go!

And for the manifold combo it may be cheap, but building one is alot of work if i don't need to.

[mpwtrader]

DID YOU BLOW YOUR TURBO UP AS I BROUGHT ONE OF THESE TOP MOUNTED EXHAUST MANFOLD T3 OF EBAY AND IT NO GOOD BOOST LOSEING LOADS YOU HERE TURBO SPINNING UP IN TURBO AND OUT EBAY MANFOLD NO GOOD

MY MATE BROUGHT CHROME MANFOLDS FOR T28 AND DONE SAME THING AS ABOVE QUILATY OF THEM MANFOLDS ON EBAY NO GOOD

I SAYING I THINK ITS DO WITH MARTRIAL THEM MANFOLD ON EBAY STEEL ALU BUT STANED ONES ARE CASTIRAN AND THINKER MARTRIAL THATS WHY THEM EBAY MANFOLDS CAN NOT HANDLE TURBO

PLEASE APPLY YOUR TECHNICAL INFO REGARDS MIKE

[r34 gtr]

Uuuuuuuuh.

Anyway, we kids have been using ebay SSAC manifolds for a while now with no problems. We do have LHD cars though, and england's weather sucks.

[Gisqc1]

First of all, no1 ever mentionned ssautochrome manifold in here, and i've read good reviews about their newer version, and if i need to i would buy one...

And drop the caps please.

Also, would it be worth it to switch from stock manifold to a tubular manifold on a t28? I've saw people saying u can lose up to almost 500rpm of spool time... how true is this? (from log to tubular).