Synthetic Oil
Synthetic Oil
I bought a 2006 G35X earlier this year and have always done most of my own maintenence. When my first oil change was due, I called the Infiniti dealer I bought my car from to ask when I could switch over to synthetic oil. I have always used regular oil for the first 2 changes before switching to Mobil1. The Infiniti service rep told me never to use synthetic oil in my G35X. Has everyone else been given this same info regarding synthetic? If so, why do they not recommend it? Does anyone still use it?
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Beancooker
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Re: Synthetic Oil (warrenmj)
Wow, that's funny. The G that I bought, was serviced at Infiniti of Fife since it was new. Every 3500 miles, it got a fresh batch of syn-blend. It's getting it's first change since I got it, and I figure I'll put the same stuff in that they have been using.
If you want to run synthetic, it should be fine.
Yes, a lot of people still use synthetic. There are very few "true" synthetics left. Royal Purple and Castrol Euro (marked made in Germany) are the only 2 left. They are the only two "grade 4" oils still made. All the others start with a grade 3 (crude oil base).
If you want to run synthetic, it should be fine.
Yes, a lot of people still use synthetic. There are very few "true" synthetics left. Royal Purple and Castrol Euro (marked made in Germany) are the only 2 left. They are the only two "grade 4" oils still made. All the others start with a grade 3 (crude oil base).
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SVTCOBRA
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Re: Synthetic Oil (warrenmj)
My Infiniti dealer told me to switch over to Synthetic at the first oil change & I did. Went with Mobil 1. Check Mobil 1's web site. Good info there.
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smockers83
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Re: Synthetic Oil (SVTCOBRA)
Another good website is http://www.carbibles.com
Anything you want to know about oils, gas, suspension, transmissions...it's all here.
Anything you want to know about oils, gas, suspension, transmissions...it's all here.
Re: Synthetic Oil (beancooker)
where did you get this information? I been running redline oil for years but I never heard of anything like that. Do you know if they are grade 4 or 3? how about the commonly most popular mobil 1 full synthetic which feels awfully thin?beancooker wrote:Yes, a lot of people still use synthetic. There are very few "true" synthetics left. Royal Purple and Castrol Euro (marked made in Germany) are the only 2 left. They are the only two "grade 4" oils still made. All the others start with a grade 3 (crude oil base).
Re: Synthetic Oil (Loveless)
i wasnt told that and im running mobil1 in my x
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gjohnson66
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Re: Synthetic Oil (warrenmj)
I've used Mobile 1 in my G ever since it was new...never had one single problem. Your dealer is full of S$#t telling you not to use it!
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smockers83
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Re: Synthetic Oil (Loveless)
AMSOIL is still out there. A full synthetic is not a true synthetic, just want to clear that up.
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SVTCOBRA
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Re: Synthetic Oil (smockers83)
Would you like to define both of these terms that you are using?smockers83 wrote:AMSOIL is still out there. A full synthetic is not a true synthetic, just want to clear that up.
Would anybody like a crack at what the difference is between 'Fully Synthetic' & 'True Synthetic' & 'Pure Synthetic'.....
I'm still sticking with Mobil 1 regardless, but love to be edjukated.
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smockers83
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Re: Synthetic Oil (SVTCOBRA)
In English, layman's terms, and very shortly--a full synthetic is derived from dino oil, a true synthetic is derived from other bases concocted in labs. A good and more thorough explanation is in the Oil Bible in the link in my 1st post of this thread, I highly recommend reading it.
This is where the debate starts with switching between synthetic and and regular oil and back and forth with this confusion. Synthetics like Mobil1 you can switch between since its derived from dino. If you use a true synthetic, you have to flush the engine out before switching.
This is where the debate starts with switching between synthetic and and regular oil and back and forth with this confusion. Synthetics like Mobil1 you can switch between since its derived from dino. If you use a true synthetic, you have to flush the engine out before switching.
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SVTCOBRA
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Re: Synthetic Oil (smockers83)
Thanks for the info! Kind of consistant with what I've read already.
But, when I call Mobil One and ask them, they tell me that it is 100 % made in the lab and is not a petroleum based synthetic oil. It has no dyno juice what so ever in it.
Just what I've been told.
I know I've read some other posts where folks were jumping ship to the other brands, but they might want to do a little bit more research first.
But, when I call Mobil One and ask them, they tell me that it is 100 % made in the lab and is not a petroleum based synthetic oil. It has no dyno juice what so ever in it.
Just what I've been told.
I know I've read some other posts where folks were jumping ship to the other brands, but they might want to do a little bit more research first.
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smockers83
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Re: Synthetic Oil (SVTCOBRA)
Whoever you talked to is doing a little bit of marketing. It says right on their website what it is made out of. To quote their website on the Mobil 1 FAQs:
"Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs)..."
PAOs come from dino oil, as quoted from carbibles.com:
"Despite their name, most synthetic derived motor oils (ie Mobil 1, Castrol Formula RS etc ) are actually derived from mineral oils - they are mostly Polyalphaolifins and these come from the purest part of the mineral oil refraction process, the gas."
"Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs)..."
PAOs come from dino oil, as quoted from carbibles.com:
"Despite their name, most synthetic derived motor oils (ie Mobil 1, Castrol Formula RS etc ) are actually derived from mineral oils - they are mostly Polyalphaolifins and these come from the purest part of the mineral oil refraction process, the gas."
Re: Synthetic Oil (smockers83)
I contacted the service manager at another dealer and he told me Infiniti doesn't "recommend" synthetic oil, but if I want to use it, it won't void the warranty and I should wait until the car has 15k miles. I'll probably switch at my normal 3rd oil change.
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SVTCOBRA
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Re: Synthetic Oil (smockers83)
Thanks for the info!!!I don't usually take what anybody says as the gospel.....not even the "carbible".
Anyway, I talked to Joe at Mobil One.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En....aspx
"Ask a technical question about a Mobil 1 product: 1-800-662-4525."
I'll keep dig'n......I'll give Joe another ring.
Anyway, I talked to Joe at Mobil One.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En....aspx
"Ask a technical question about a Mobil 1 product: 1-800-662-4525."
I'll keep dig'n......I'll give Joe another ring.
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smockers83
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Re: Synthetic Oil (SVTCOBRA)
Researching a little more, I found some more info on these PAOs. Apparently they are made from some sort of hydrocarbon, but possibly not oil (the chemical terminology was beyond me).
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SVTCOBRA
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Re: Synthetic Oil (smockers83)
Cool, I'll give Joe a call when I get some time. I work in IT and have had lots of fires today to put out.
Re: Synthetic Oil (warrenmj)
Well, it's probably bad karma to make my first post here on a controversial topic, but I guess caution is for sissies (on forums anyway). No matter which automotice/motorcycle forum you go to, synthetic oil is always a controversial subject, mainly because there are so many absolute old-wives-tales on the subject, many of which are spread by dealer mechanics that make good money performing oil changes. To understand this, recognize that most PAO synthetics perform perfectly wonderfully for 10,000-20,000 miles in a motor, versus dino oils which typically begin to wear out after 3,000 miles or so. How much does your Infiniti dealer charge for oil changes? Uh huh. Guess why he doesn't like synthetics.
I'll cut&paste from an article I wrote some time ago on the subject, which can be seen at http://tech.vtxoa.com/index.ph...ng=en
It's written towards a motorcycle audience, but it's just as applicable to automobiles.
(*snip*)The Basics of Oil
Modern day motor oils, all share some basic characteristics in common. First, and foremost, is that they must fall within a certain viscosity range to be useful in lubricating a motor. The standard used to measure viscosity is usually the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) scale, and the reasonable range is between 0 and 50 units. The lower the SAE number, the lighter and runnier the oil is. Higher numbers, mean heavier and slower running. This is important, because oils behave differently at different temperatures. At a given temperature, an oil may be too light to hang around long enough to provide adequate lubrication, or it may be too heavy to be able to penetrate into all the surfaces that need lubricating. Heavy oils also resist being pumped by the motor’s oil pump, and it takes work to do so. So, getting the right viscosity for a given operating temperature is a lot like tasting porridge at the three bears house – this one is tooo light, that one is tooo heavy. But this one is just right!
Most motor oils today are made from one of two different general methods. The “Dino” oils (so-called because they are the remnants of things that were alive millions of years ago), are refined from crude mineral oil by being separated from the rest of the crude by boiling point, or by molecular weight. These oils can have different properties based on the type of crude that was used to refine them, the technique used to refine them, and many many other factors. But the bottom line, is they all originally sprang from dinosaur poo, or other such nastiness (ok, actually diatomaceous or planktonic hydrocarbon residue, but you get the point – old dead stuff).
Synthetic oils are manufactured by design, from other molecular substances. Usually by reacting gasses, or something of the sort. A true synthetic oil is composed of all molecules of the same molecular weight – a property which greatly increases their resistance to temperature changes, and reduces the inter-molecular resistance to flow. There are several base stocks produced this way, but for our purposes, the most common one is called PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin). You’ll also occasionally see Ester-based synthetics, and these can be superior to PAO base stocks (and equally, can be worse, especially to silicon seals), but most of the consumer stuff you see comes from PAO.
Except.
Certain manufactures have recently begun to call their dino oils “synthetic” because they’ve been processed using hydro-crackers, or other advanced refining or reconstructive techniques. Very naughty. You’ll be surprised to learn, that a considerable number of oils currently marketed as “synthetic”, really aren’t synthetic oils at all, but are part of a group usually referred to as “Group III” (or hydrowax) oils. They still came out of the refining process, but manufacturers wanting to cash in on the reputation enjoyed by synthetics as high-performance oils, just plain cheat, and call their class III oils “synthetics.” Shame, shame, shame. In fairness, Group III oils can come very close or even exceed the performance characteristics of PAO based oils. But most of them don’t. And we shouldn’t be expected to pay PAO-class prices for oil that is vastly cheaper to manufacture.
(*snip snip*)
Thus true "synthetic" oils, are based on PAO or Ester base stocks. These are usually manufactured by reacting gas, often itself distilled from the petroleum refining process. But PAO oil is one-molecular-weight, versus hydrocracked "synthetics" which have a whole range of goo in them, including a lot of compounds you'd probably rather did not go in your nice motor.
To answer the original question, change to synthetic oil (real synthetic, not group III oil) at your first oil change after breakin, and don't look back. Most of the Mobil One PAO's are easily good for 10K between changes. Don't throw your money away by changing oil when it doesn't need changing.
I'll cut&paste from an article I wrote some time ago on the subject, which can be seen at http://tech.vtxoa.com/index.ph...ng=en
It's written towards a motorcycle audience, but it's just as applicable to automobiles.
(*snip*)The Basics of Oil
Modern day motor oils, all share some basic characteristics in common. First, and foremost, is that they must fall within a certain viscosity range to be useful in lubricating a motor. The standard used to measure viscosity is usually the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) scale, and the reasonable range is between 0 and 50 units. The lower the SAE number, the lighter and runnier the oil is. Higher numbers, mean heavier and slower running. This is important, because oils behave differently at different temperatures. At a given temperature, an oil may be too light to hang around long enough to provide adequate lubrication, or it may be too heavy to be able to penetrate into all the surfaces that need lubricating. Heavy oils also resist being pumped by the motor’s oil pump, and it takes work to do so. So, getting the right viscosity for a given operating temperature is a lot like tasting porridge at the three bears house – this one is tooo light, that one is tooo heavy. But this one is just right!
Most motor oils today are made from one of two different general methods. The “Dino” oils (so-called because they are the remnants of things that were alive millions of years ago), are refined from crude mineral oil by being separated from the rest of the crude by boiling point, or by molecular weight. These oils can have different properties based on the type of crude that was used to refine them, the technique used to refine them, and many many other factors. But the bottom line, is they all originally sprang from dinosaur poo, or other such nastiness (ok, actually diatomaceous or planktonic hydrocarbon residue, but you get the point – old dead stuff).
Synthetic oils are manufactured by design, from other molecular substances. Usually by reacting gasses, or something of the sort. A true synthetic oil is composed of all molecules of the same molecular weight – a property which greatly increases their resistance to temperature changes, and reduces the inter-molecular resistance to flow. There are several base stocks produced this way, but for our purposes, the most common one is called PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin). You’ll also occasionally see Ester-based synthetics, and these can be superior to PAO base stocks (and equally, can be worse, especially to silicon seals), but most of the consumer stuff you see comes from PAO.
Except.
Certain manufactures have recently begun to call their dino oils “synthetic” because they’ve been processed using hydro-crackers, or other advanced refining or reconstructive techniques. Very naughty. You’ll be surprised to learn, that a considerable number of oils currently marketed as “synthetic”, really aren’t synthetic oils at all, but are part of a group usually referred to as “Group III” (or hydrowax) oils. They still came out of the refining process, but manufacturers wanting to cash in on the reputation enjoyed by synthetics as high-performance oils, just plain cheat, and call their class III oils “synthetics.” Shame, shame, shame. In fairness, Group III oils can come very close or even exceed the performance characteristics of PAO based oils. But most of them don’t. And we shouldn’t be expected to pay PAO-class prices for oil that is vastly cheaper to manufacture.
(*snip snip*)
Thus true "synthetic" oils, are based on PAO or Ester base stocks. These are usually manufactured by reacting gas, often itself distilled from the petroleum refining process. But PAO oil is one-molecular-weight, versus hydrocracked "synthetics" which have a whole range of goo in them, including a lot of compounds you'd probably rather did not go in your nice motor.
To answer the original question, change to synthetic oil (real synthetic, not group III oil) at your first oil change after breakin, and don't look back. Most of the Mobil One PAO's are easily good for 10K between changes. Don't throw your money away by changing oil when it doesn't need changing.
Re: Synthetic Oil (Tapper)
Firstly...welcome to NICO!!!
Excellent article
Excellent article
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SVTCOBRA
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Re: Synthetic Oil (Tapper)
Good info Tapper.
As you have probably read, there has been a recent oil scare on the board over 'Synthetic' oils. Several members have been questioning whether to abandon their Mobil 1.
As far as going 10K on an oil change, my oil starts to look dark (dirty) around 3k to 4k, so I change it between 3.5K and 4K. I do it myself so it's not a big expense like taking it to the dealer.Don't really use syn to extend the time between changes, but more for the other benefits.
Welcome to Nico!!!!
As you have probably read, there has been a recent oil scare on the board over 'Synthetic' oils. Several members have been questioning whether to abandon their Mobil 1.
As far as going 10K on an oil change, my oil starts to look dark (dirty) around 3k to 4k, so I change it between 3.5K and 4K. I do it myself so it's not a big expense like taking it to the dealer.Don't really use syn to extend the time between changes, but more for the other benefits.
Welcome to Nico!!!!
Re: Synthetic Oil (SVTCOBRA)
I normally send the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th oil changes to blackstone labs for analysis. This does a couple of things for me. First, it tells me how often I really need to change the oil in a given motor, and second, it gives me a baseline to use in watching for bearing wear. The tests are cheap, and it's good insurance.SVTCOBRA wrote:Good info Tapper.
As you have probably read, there has been a recent oil scare on the board over 'Synthetic' oils. Several members have been questioning whether to abandon their Mobil 1.
As far as going 10K on an oil change, my oil starts to look dark (dirty) around 3k to 4k, so I change it between 3.5K and 4K. I do it myself so it's not a big expense like taking it to the dealer.Don't really use syn to extend the time between changes, but more for the other benefits.
Welcome to Nico!!!!
You can't really tell much from the appearance of the oil, All oils will darken after a couple of thousand miles in the motor, as their detergents break down soot. The real issue is, how much detergent is left, and how does the viscosity hold up. All modern motor oils contain detergent packages which render the by-products of combustion and most wear harmless to motors, so a little color is no big deal. But, when an oil loses (or gains) viscosity, it stops lubricating well, or circulating through oil passages appropriately. Likewise, the detergent quantity is a finite resource - when it's gone, it's gone, and once it runs out, the oil becomes a carrier for abrasive wear metals and carbon fouling.
Of course, this requires some basic confidence in the actual science of the thing. Most folks see black oil, and it just looks bad, so they want it out. Thing is, there is some research that indicates that new oil actually causes some wear of it's own. I've seen the reports, but as yet, no science to explain it. So, it may be more than just money at stake.
My G35 is still new, so I've yet to develop a concrete change schedule for it. I'd expect it to land around every 10K or so though, based on experience with similar motors. I'm starting out with Mobil One Extended 10w-30. If I like the first test, I'll stick with it, since it's readily available.
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zozoka1212
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Re: Synthetic Oil (Tapper)
Welcome to nico
What a way to introduce yourself. Nice.
I love the way you think. That lab thing is a smart way to protect your investment. I'll look into that. It seems to be a smart way. I hope they have something in Canada. We are usually out of luck with this things.
Thanks for the info. And Welcome again.
Zozo
Modified by zozoka1212 at 12:09 PM 9/8/2007
What a way to introduce yourself. Nice.
I love the way you think. That lab thing is a smart way to protect your investment. I'll look into that. It seems to be a smart way. I hope they have something in Canada. We are usually out of luck with this things.
Thanks for the info. And Welcome again.
Zozo
Modified by zozoka1212 at 12:09 PM 9/8/2007
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SVTCOBRA
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Re: Synthetic Oil (Tapper)
More good info! I'll have to check out that site a bit more. Wouldn't mind getting my cobra a check up!!
Re: Synthetic Oil (zozoka1212)
I would think you'd have no problem sending samples to blackstone - they provide a sample shipper free if you call them and ask for it. It's certified for use in the US Mail, so hopefully it would get you across the border too.zozoka1212 wrote:Welcome to nico
What a way to introduce yourself. Nice.
I love the way you think. That lab thing is a smart way to protect your investment. I'll look into that. It seems to be a smart way. I hope they have something in Canada. We are usually out of luck with this things.
Thanks for the info. And Welcome again.
Zozo
Modified by zozoka1212 at 12:09 PM 9/8/2007
The URL for blackstone is: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
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zozoka1212
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Re: Synthetic Oil (Tapper)
Thanks for the info.
Yeah, sounds really promissing. Shipping time will take forever but it's not a rush anyway.
Zozo Thanks for the info again. I'll go and check on their website.
Yeah, sounds really promissing. Shipping time will take forever but it's not a rush anyway.
Zozo Thanks for the info again. I'll go and check on their website.
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SVTCOBRA
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Re: Synthetic Oil (zozoka1212)
zozo,if you get yours done, post the results.
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zozoka1212
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Re: Synthetic Oil (SVTCOBRA)
I just sent and email for them yesterday. Waiting for reply.
zozo
zozo
Re: Synthetic Oil (Tapper)
I spoke with the service advisor at my dealership. He told me that if you run synthetic, you have to change the oil at 7k to not void the warranty.
Has anyone else gotten the same info?
Has anyone else gotten the same info?
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zozoka1212
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Re: Synthetic Oil (SVTCOBRA)
The kit is on the way. Won't be any extra $ to Canada.
I'll keep you posted.
zozo
I'll keep you posted.
zozo
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szh
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Unfortunately, no longer a Nissan or Infiniti, but continuing here at NICO! - Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Synthetic Oil (abdoman)
Like many other manufacturers, Nissan/Infiniti has stated that the oil change interval is 7500 miles maximum. And yes, just like other manufacturers, they recommend changing it sooner under certain driving conditions - this is all in the Owner's Manual.abdoman wrote:I spoke with the service advisor at my dealership. He told me that if you run synthetic, you have to change the oil at 7k to not void the warranty.
Has anyone else gotten the same info?
However, they say nothing on the topic of whether you should shorten the interval when running synthetic instead of dino oil! That seems quite unusual to me frankly!
FWIW, I do 3750 mile changes on my oil and filter. With Mobil 1 Synthetic 0W-40, yes, but I believe I would be just fine doing this with a good dino 5W-30 oil (like Castrol GTX or Chevron Supreme), if I was concerned about the cost of the synthetic.
Z