swap idea

[hpmachine]

Anyone considered a new generation 5.7 hemi swap? I'm just throwing this idea out there as an alternative to the ls1 swap. The main negative that I can think of is weight. It's a cast iron block so the weight of the fully dressed engine has to be close to 500lbs. On the other hand, you can a buy a REBUILT (0-miles)5.7L hemi for around 3500$ minus the transmission. Putting down about 325hp and 375ft/lbs it's comparable to the ls1. A company called Keisler has recently begun offering a 6 speed T-56 swap for the Chargers and Magnums so I'm sure this could be adapted to our cars as well. A t-56 trans might set you back about 2000$ if you were to buy a rebuilt one. I don't know the actual physical size of the engine either so this may be prohibitive... any input???

[mantis]

Seems close to the price of the LS1 and a lot heavier. The LT1 might be a better option, just not as light, but still fuel injected.

[hpmachine]

yeah the price is similar but the difference is, you can get a completely rebuilt hemi for like 3500$ and if you spent that much on an ls1 it's gonna have at least 60k on it. lt1s might be an option but you'd have to do a little bit of modding to make 325hp, whereas the hemi comes with that stock. I'm pretty certain the lt1's came with a t5 transmission which is pretty week compared to the t56.

[Picolini]

I've heard, don't know from experience though, that the Hemi's are hard to upgrade and get more power out of.

Plus, you'd probably spend the same on the hemi as you would an ls1, but the ls1 has 40 more hp easily. Plus TONS of aftermarket support for the ls1.

[hpmachine]

yeah but everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that for like 5600$ you are getting basically a brand new engine and transmission. find a rebuilt ls1 with trans for that price...

[the_momo]

iirc most hemis are HUGE. therein lies the biggest problem. big heads.

[hpmachine]

Yeah that wouldn't surprise me. I know the old school 426 hemis were physically enormous but it looks to me like the 5.7 is a smaller block. (not talking about displacement). I could not find any info about the actual sizes of the engines. The other thing I DID find though is that the new hemi is a hemi in name only. the hemispherical design of the new head is pretty much a lie. LOL

[cnichols]

Yeah that wouldn't surprise me. I know the old school 426 hemis were physically enormous but it looks to me like the 5.7 is a smaller block. (not talking about displacement). I could not find any info about the actual sizes of the engines. The other thing I DID find though is that the new hemi is a hemi in name only. the hemispherical design of the new head is pretty much a lie. LOL

While it isn't exactly a lie, it IS a marketing gimmick.

I'm sure that just like almost all other modern engines, the head design is a Pentroof design, which built on the hemispherical design and improved it. So, I guess you could still say it is a HEMI, but not in the historical sense.

Also, as far as putting one in...if I were going to use an iron block, I would pick up a 5.3 Chevy truck motor, which is basically an LS1 w/ a different intake manifold and accessory setup. Bore it to a 5.7, rebuild it, source some F-body accessories and intake manifold, and you've got a brand new motor for under $2000. The only reason I didn't go this route was to save weight w/ the aluminum block. If I would have been planning on going turbo, I would have.

[hpmachine]

Nice info!

[OutToWinPAHC]

Ill admit i looked at it, its a large footprint, heavy, and they were looking for 8000K for the motor and trans. Plus they are drive by wire only, and the transmission are know to go kaboom.

[OutToWinPAHC]

yeah but everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that for like 5600$ you are getting basically a brand new engine and transmission. find a rebuilt ls1 with trans for that price...

I can get a LS2 engine and trans for about 4500-5500 Damn I got my LS6 for 2300 with 46K on her.

[Fla240sx]

lt1's came with T56 in the F body and I belive a close ratio 6 speed ZF transmission in the vette

[Fla240sx]

after some searching I found this..... I would think this is a superior transmission to the T-56....... both in price, and acceleration, The T-56 is basically a double overdrive transmission, its gear spacing is not close ratio, like many other 6 speeds are today. its 4th gear is still 1:1... but the corvette ZF unit has its 5th gear at 1:1....... better acceleration and the clear choice for track enthusiasts here....... but the cruising RPM's will be higher then a T-56..... Not too many people even know of these or use em..... If I was doing a v8 swap this is the transmission I would most DEFINTELY use.........

these are BRAND NEW, not rebuilds..... 1400.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

[mantis]

Weight is still a huge issue here. The LS1 keeps the stock handling and balance due to the weight. Otherwise, you might as well use a SBC for much cheaper. You could also go with the 2jz for cheaper with its huge HP potential. I have seen an LS1 brand new in the crate for $4000. You just have to look a bit.

[hpmachine]

Ill admit i looked at it, its a large footprint, heavy, and they were looking for 8000K for the motor and trans. Plus they are drive by wire only, and the transmission are know to go kaboom.

Where did you look for the engine and trans? drive by wire means no throttle cable right? The transmission that you speak of... is that the stock automatic?

[WDRacing]

If you don't mind an iron block, then you can buy a 383 sbc brand new for cheaper then 3500. Or just buy any car with a 5.7 and a stroker kit. With the price of having it rebuilt it'll be about 3500 and you'll have a transmission.

The LQ series in the GM trucks go for $1500. Thats a pretty good deal as far as I'm concerned. Also, there's not much sense in comparing used to new when talking about the newer style motors. They can go 250,000 easy before the bearings need to be changed. So a semi high mileage LS, LQ or any other for that matter is still a very good option.

If I sourced a VERY cheap Hemi then I'd sure as hell use it. But for 3500 I better get a transmission and wiring harness to go with.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Where did you look for the engine and trans? drive by wire means no throttle cable right? The transmission that you speak of... is that the stock automatic?

postings on LS1.com, LS2.com, LS1tech.com. I found my LS6 local with less then 50K. I went and took a look at the car, verified the milage and checked the compression, started it up. Everything was good so I showed cash and picked it up later that week.

Drive by wire means no throttle cables, and to my knowledge the new "hemi" (which is not really a hemi) does not have a vehicle with a standard throttle body.

As far as dodge and transmission, just a mess period, mostly automatic, but know to always blow. The new automatics that they have been using on these hemis have had a number of problems. Many of the Ram's have had major transmission failures.

[hpmachine]

Pffffffffffff.... guess I'll pass LOL

[OutToWinPAHC]

Yeah its just not that good of a swap, for a moment I thought of it, but after looking into them it was a bad idea. Seeing an old big block hemi would be cool, but not cost effective. With ford and chevy's V8 your blessed with a ton of aftermarket support, support to make the swap easier, and more power.

[cnichols]

after some searching I found this..... I would think this is a superior transmission to the T-56....... both in price, and acceleration, The T-56 is basically a double overdrive transmission, its gear spacing is not close ratio, like many other 6 speeds are today. its 4th gear is still 1:1... but the corvette ZF unit has its 5th gear at 1:1....... better acceleration and the clear choice for track enthusiasts here....... but the cruising RPM's will be higher then a T-56..... Not too many people even know of these or use em..... If I was doing a v8 swap this is the transmission I would most DEFINTELY use.........

Are you sure? The info I found shows it's 4th is 1:1. If you have to make an adapter plate anyways, it's not a bad choice. But, if you're going LSx, it wouldn't make sense to abandon the T-56 for this.

[Fla240sx]

it will bolt up to my knowledge, just only uses 5 bolts, 2 on each side, and 1 on the top left.... which is ok I think.....

I mean it would work as far as thats concerned.... but another thing to think about is the pilot bushing

and I've been lied to! you are correct that it is a double overdrive transmission



I wish I could find a close ratio GM transmission for somewhat cheap..... but its not looking feesible........

and those automatic new Dodge RWD transmissions do have some problems, they all have a defective piece of metal in the valvebody that breaks and it stops shifting.....

[OutToWinPAHC]

Gen1-Gen4 small block chevys all have the same bolt pattern on the motors, but they have used different cranks over the years. it should bolt up fine, but you may need a crank adapter. But the bellhousing should match right up.

I used a crank adapter to fit the TH trans to my LS

[drewhenderson13]

let me throw in my 2 cents on the subjectcons

made by dodge (junk)

heavy

expensive to modify

no swap kits known

not a hemi (new hemis dont have hemispherical heads.... dodge is gay... its not even a hemi)

and its made by dodge (junk)

pros

it will make your car move... its still an engine

[hpmachine]

Thanks for your insight! LOL

[cnichols]

not a hemi (new hemis dont have hemispherical heads.... dodge is gay... its not even a hemi)

and its made by dodge (junk)

Dear 502 Drew,

Read my post above explaining hemis and get out of my forum before I ban you.

Love,

Chris

[drewhenderson13]

dude your brocks cousin!

what the hell are you threatning to ban me for?

if your the right guy im thinking of (street elite) then you must not remember me.

seriously... where did the 502 come from?

[cnichols]

Yeah, that's me.

Haha...just messing with you because you're from E-town.

I must have mistaken you for someone else (502 Drew is Stephen and Chris's friend that was always over talking about how the 502 Chevy motor was the best motor ever). Is that not you? Anyways...welcome to the Hybrid section. Tell Brock what's up if you see him.

[drewhenderson13]

well yea... im drew

but i dont remember the 502 nickname... bust have said it behind my back.

ive always been a chevy fan, and big block chevys make a lot of power for drag racing, but small block chevys are my game. (not that i own one, it sucks)

thats why i want to do a ls engine in a 240

i just had to warn the guy before he made a big mistake. dodge hasnt made a quality product since the muscle car days. and even then its questionable.

[hpmachine]

I just thought I'd mention the possibility. I've got an sr in my 240 and I'm happy with it. If I was gonna go to a v8 I'd probably go with an ls1 so this thread proved valuable. As for dodge not making anything of quality... I think it's a matter of opinion. I've got a friend in South Jersey that just put a head and cam package in his srt8 300 and he ran a 12.2 Not bad for a car that weighs 4000lbs.

[drewhenderson13]

the thing about opinions is... some of them are wrong.

its cool that people try to think of new ideas. but i have never been impressed by anything dodge has made, and i like a lot of cars and a lot of different types of cars.

heres my opinion of the best engines to swap into a 240

LS series of course302 fordTPI (never seen it in a 240 but their awsome engines that you can get for almost free)