Suspension Upgrade Questions

[SilviablhS14]

I'm new to 240's and I'm getting ready to overhaul the suspension and replace almost everything. I do have some mechanical ability but have never attempted a job this big and since this is my DD I was just wondering if anyone has any tips to make things go smoother. The parts I plan on replacing are as follows: BC Racing BR Type Coilovers W/rear extenders, ISIS Suspension Arm Package, ISIS Subframe Bushing insets, Energy Suspension Differential Bushings, Energy Suspension Bushing kit. I also plan on replacing all of the ball joints as well as upgrading the rear brakes to the z32 brakes. Don't worry the fronts have already been upgrade as well as the MC.

I plan on dropping the subframe as a whole and replacing everything on the rear that way. I also saw that most people used a torch to remove the old bushing. Is this the best way to do this or is there a simpler way.

Any ideas or tips would be greatly appreciated.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Tip.... dont buy the isis and save up. Coils, tension rods, Rucas, and do all the ball joints and end links. Then go with traction and toe rods. Buy cheap and buy twice.

[DanThaMan]

+1 take his advise for sure, you won't regret saving for good suspension parts. I learned buy cheap, buy twice the hard way

[SilviablhS14]

I thought that too but what reviews I read on them weren't that bad. For know this will be just my DD with not many events or anything like that right now. When I go to start tracking and drifting with the car I will defiantly upgrade to something better.

[DanThaMan]

what you're doing... or wanting to do is known as "false economy." you want to buy an inferior part because it's cheaper yet in a year the part is going to break/wear and you're going to end up either replacing the part annually or forking out the cash for the quality part that would have lasted if you bought it in the first place. This being said, why not save and do it right the first time? because you know we're gonna say "told you so"

[OutToWinPAHC]

Godspeed, isis..... same stuff made in China. I got a cheap pair or tension rods.... only have 400 miles on them and they are sloppy loose because of the inferior heim joints. Now I am getting PBM mainly because of their joint design.

[disrupt]

I agree. Save up.

The bushings are not as simple as burning then out. Personnel I prefer to cut them out but this is more work. There is a metal sleeve around each bushings that need to come out too. Some people press them out. Some people use a hacksaw blade and cut a slit in the metal sleeve then slide it out. Patience will to required.

Ball joints can be pressed out and in with a good vice and some short pieces of metal pipe. Some time with google should sort you out on this topic. You will need a snap ring tool.

[Hoffman5982]

I have Godspeed RUCAs. Ive been running them for about a year and a half and have easily put over 10k miles on them. I looked at them the other day while I was under the car and they look fine. There hasn't been any weird sounds or anything coming from them. I will be replacing them eventually but that's because I want all Stance suspension arms. Enjuku fully backs up ISIS parts, so I would have no problem running them on my DD. If you're going to be tracking the car a lot then you might want to save for better quality stuff, but for a DD they'll do fine. Plus, Godspeed has released their V2 line of arms so Im sure they have made improvements.

And you can say the same chinese kids make ISIS and Godspeed, but to be honest, the same chinese kids probably make every aftermarket suspension arm on the market

[OutToWinPAHC]

The Rucas see vertical movement unlike the other arms. You get what you pay for and they joints suck. Godspeed is now just copying PBM parts, still same crappy welds and mild steel with a better but still inferior joint. As for Godspeed and Isis... they are made in the same factory according to certain sellers of the products.

[SilviablhS14]

Disrupt thanks for the tips on removing the bushings.

I haven't owned Godspeed products but I think a company that is willing to use their own parts on their own drift cars says something about the quality of their parts. Every company has their own way of making parts but when you get down to it there are only a few ways to make the same parts and only a few materials to make those parts. Yes there might be high and low quality parts. So most of the time you are just paying for the name brand of the part so that company that everyone buys their parts from can go and spend that extra money on advertising to grow bigger as a company. So just because a company's parts have a cheap price on them doesn't mean that they can't be quality parts.

They might be Chinese parts but what isn't now days. When labor in China starts getting more expensive like it is than those companies that outsource to China will move their plants some place else where labor is cheaper and then it will be that country that will be making the so called "cheap" products. Just because something is made some place else doesn't mean anything now days, even "American" cars are made some place else.

[SilviablhS14]

Hoffman5982 I totally agree with you man. Why spend all that money on a part that is such higher quality than oem when the car is just going be a DD. It seems point less to me.

I made this thread hoping to get ideas that would aid in helping me when I start to do all the work in a week. I've already ordered the parts and I ordered them because I felt that based on what I've heard and read that they will be good for what I need at this moment in time. Maybe once I'm pulling in a ton of money and I'm out of school that will change but at the moment I'm going to get what I can with out being bankrupt when I graduate.

So if anyone has any helpful tips that will be greatly appreciated.

[Raz007]

Starting next weekend I will be able to throw some tips your way, as I am replacing my suspension parts as well. And I, like you, chose to buy Godspeed arms, after reading, searching, and reading some more beforehand. I searched and searched and searched online to find some difinative proof that Godspeed's arms were as bad as everyone cries about, and didn't find anything. Just a bunch of fanboys who obviously have a crapload of money to throw at their cars. And usually they are the same drivers that rate parts by the amounts of "sideways" they can get their cars. I, on the other hand, DD my car, and it is by all definition a "cruiser". I started a thread myself, and got a ton of responses of "buy coilovers", "those arms are s***", and similar responses. Well, now all the parts are here, and I have to say they all seem EXACTLY the same as the high dollar parts I went and looked at. Now whether they hold up as long remains to be seen, but the way I see it, if they last near as long as the stock parts have, I'll be fine. They have great welds, and are clearly stronger looking than the stock worn out parts on the car now. I'll let you know how the install goes.

[SilviablhS14]

Sounds sweet man. I look forward to hearing how it goes.

[DanThaMan]

Hey Hoffmann, before you go calling people out:

But all of you fanboys don't like a company that makes entry level stuff that cost 1/3 of what you'll pay for PBM so you talk sh** about them without giving them a chance.

please read our posts and see that we have owned said brands of suspension arms and that we have had them fail on us. The OP asked for tips and we just are sharing our experiences and trying to stop the man from making the same mistakes we did.
Good luck OP

[-RJ-]

My car is a DD and I got some of the cheaper stuff and never again. Even if its a daily, the peace of mind knowing that my suspension is of good quality is well worth the money. I make maybe 350 every two weeks and a buttload of student loans. I would wait the extra month or three and get the good stuff. To me its like buying those generic cereals that are in a bag versus a name brand one, one just looks and tastes better lol

[SoCal-S13]

outtowin reigns supreme.

let them buy cheap shyt. like the old saying goes. you can lead a bytch to water bu......meh i forget the rest

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Psst.... The cheap arms I was talking about that are falling apart are godspeed... I also have their sway bars that I had to reweld, heat and bend. Nothing but JUNK. As for Enjuku, at the end of the day they are a business who needs to make money. Simple supply and demand, as found in any economics 101 textbook.

Now for daily driving, you want the best. Were talking about close to 3000 pounds moving 0-75mph on the normal with an active suspension that is constantly moving. Sloppy joints, mild steel, single locking nuts is not that good. Ever wonder why the cheap arms always seem to loose their position and cause the need for realignment. Hell they don't even tell you the grading of the metal, or hardware.

I personally see your opinion as skewed if not totally invalid when talking about chassis/suspension components. Your car has a very powerful V8 which I'm sure twists these tin can unibodies like a pretzel. If I had to buy parts for your car, no doubt I would go with the best on the market out there. It would be dumb not to.

That being said though, Godspeed and ISIS ARE just knockoff companies. I know ISIS has a little more quality control than the others as it's overseen by Enjuku, a reputable supplier.

I would personally run nothing lower end/cheaper than ISIS unless it's OEM. You're not going to NEED beefy PBM RUCAS for just hardparking around town. Realistically speaking, almost anything will be better than really worn out suspension components. Things can get dangerous if you go an extended period of time without replacing things. Driving a car hard, track or street, will just compound your problems.

It's all about personal opinion though. Important moving parts like coilovers, control arms, etc... should NOT be skimped on, like PAHC said. Sway bars and strut bars though I wouldn't be too hesitant at all to run a lower end brand. Just be sure to do your research and find out what's best for you.

[Hoffman5982]

Hey Hoffmann, before you go calling people out:

But all of you fanboys don't like a company that makes entry level stuff that cost 1/3 of what you'll pay for PBM so you talk sh** about them without giving them a chance.

please read our posts and see that we have owned said brands of suspension arms and that we have had them fail on us. The OP asked for tips and we just are sharing our experiences and trying to stop the man from making the same mistakes we did.
Good luck OP

I wasn't calling you out man. That was aimed at Outtowin. He's never owned any godspeed products other than a sway bar, so he has no right of talking trash about their arms. If you've had them and ahd bad experiences, well then you have every right. The OP wants people that have had experience with these products to give their opinions, so you should definitely voice yours since you've had bad experience. Outtowin, on the other hand, is coming in here like he does on every thread that mentions Godspeed or ISIS talking out of his a** because he reads the threads about people that have had problems, most of which probably took their to the track or out street drifting, hit a curb or something, and got all butt hurt when they broke. What Im trying to defend here is that for DD they should be fine. I've had no problems. I really don't know if I'd be comfortable or not taking them out to a track and beating them to death. I don't live anywhere near a track so I don't have to worry about making that decision any time soon

[OutToWinPAHC]

I wasn't calling you out man. That was aimed at Outtowin. He's never owned any godspeed products other than a sway bar, so he has no right of talking trash about their arms. If you've had them and ahd bad experiences, well then you have every right. The OP wants people that have had experience with these products to give their opinions, so you should definitely voice yours since you've had bad experience. Outtowin, on the other hand, is coming in here like he does on every thread that mentions Godspeed or ISIS talking out of his a** because he reads the threads about people that have had problems, most of which probably took their to the track or out street drifting, hit a curb or something, and got all butt hurt when they broke. What Im trying to defend here is that for DD they should be fine. I've had no problems. I really don't know if I'd be comfortable or not taking them out to a track and beating them to death. I don't live anywhere near a track so I don't have to worry about making that decision any time soon

Godspeed RUCAS - not so bad, but I was not impressed with the welds or the material. I sand blasted the arms and they looked like hell. Penetrations in the welds, stress marks in the steel. We re-welded these and added better gussets and they are actually on my car.

Godspeed sway bars - Now they are awesome, but the end welds were also horrible. They weren't complete, they were pitted, and they did not line up. So they were heated and bent about 1/2 inch, blasted, welds ground out and tig welded. Now I don't have an issue (but its only solid metal)

Godspeed Tension rods - Looked much better then other products, but withing 100 miles the boots for the arms were cracked and torn and the set nuts were coming loose. I took them off to check them out and the heim joint is sloppy as can be, I could put them back on and just lock tite them at alignment.Now, but that heim joint sees a ton of force, and I dont trust it.

NOW HOFFMAN, i suggest you change your tone. Your calling me out, on really false presences here and well your entire argument make you look silly. Did you not read I have tried their products? I bash them because I HAVE A REASON TO. Much like I will slam Mishimotos JUNK. So dont call me out like I am some rich guy who can just spend money on whatever I want because it's not true at all. Based on all of what you say you have one used one cheap arm and you think they are awesome because they let you fix your camber situation. Which is awesome, but until you work with their other arms and see what they do don't go calling me out. As for OEM arms they are great if your geometry does not change, they don't move, they don't turn, and the bushings last 15+ years. I have been doing this a while and this is not my first rodeo. You get what you pay for. Now cheaper companies that make quality parts come along all the time, but we are talking about the cheapest of the cheap who is copying the copiers. Godspeed is junk, Isis and Godspeed are manufactured by the same company using the same materials and processes.

As for on topic. You can go with a cheaper RUCA, Cheaper Sway Bar, and a Cheaper Traction rod. But don't skimp on tension or toe rods. They see the most stress and you want those be of quality construction and joints. Depending on how low your going to go you may not need to replace the tension or toe rods. As for ball joints I went with new lower arms over ball joints. They came at a huge discount from my buddies shop supplier (OE style). My rear LCA's were blasted, were pushed out the joints and replaced with MOOG LBJ for a Nissan Sentra. I also added a support plate to the bottom of these.

[SilviablhS14]

Thanks for the clarification OutToWinPAHC. What you said makes since but don't you think that for a car that is basically stock with not hardly any power upgrades that possibly the ISIS stuff could be good for what I'm wanting to do for right now. I'm just getting the arms to adjust the suspension geometry for when I lower my car. Unlike yourself I do not have a V8 powered car (Which is sick), so my rear suspension will be under less stress than yours. My car still has all of the stock suspension parts from what I can tell and is pushing 16 years old. I know that sometimes the cheap stuff isn't good but from what I saw of the ISIS parts I liked and felt like they will be fine for my application. When I do go for more power I will see about changing out all of the arms to stronger arms if needed.

Now back to the topic at hand. I was just hoping to get some tips to make the job I have ahead of me easier and not want me to pull all of my hair out. Like I have said before this is my DD and I have only allowed about 3 days for the whole process. I was making this thread to hope to get some tips on doing this from people that have already tackled this task and not get flamed about what parts I have purchased. SO lets continue with the tips.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Meh, personally I would probably trust an oem part over Godspeed. The only reason I would feel the need to buy anything from them is purely for the adjustability.

There's too many mixed reviews from people to make it a REPUTABLE company. It's more of a "hit-or-miss" thing in terms of how long their parts will last.

[tEknoS13]

Truth spoken with the $120 and $200 arm comparison.... A friend of mine loves bashing me because I went and spent $255 on Peak Performance RUCAs, and he went with some ISIS RUCAS. He claims they are made from the same manufacturer and that the only difference is the name. MY Peak Performance arms are plain and simple HUGE and BEEFY.

My car will also be a DD, however I decided to go with good quality parts because I've spent so much time, effort, and money on it to start half assing it. There is not a single knock off part in there (besides wheels :-( ) I can respect whoever has ISIS parts or Godspeed, to each his own. Not everybody is rich, I AM NOT either but with some patience and hard work you can get there!!!!

[Chaotic_Warlord]

I plan on getting the Godspeed coilovers and the Megan Racing arms. My car isn't DD, if anything it might see 1200 miles per year and that's on the very high side. I will only be driving it on weekends in the spriing and summer to go to events and the occassional cruise. I would love to get higher quality parts but realistically it's not financially possible for me to do that and my entire suspension is overdo for an overhaul. You guys can hate on me and say I'll be spending more in the long run, but life dictates how I buy parts for my car. I know a lot of people who have the Godspeed parts and yeah it's a mixed bag, but the parts are made in the same plant that the A'pexi stuff is made, same as ISIS and Megan Racing. Obviously they have decent QC because a ton of people swear by their intercoolers and hard pipes. Sure the stuff was crap a couple of years ago, but it's gotten better from what I've read.

You don't have to spend a ton of money to get quality parts, just look at the BC, Stance, and MR coilovers, they were garbage when they first came out but a lot of people swear by them now. Name brand parts fail to, so keep that in mind. If you beat on your car and the parts it doesn't matter what brand you have stuff will break.

[Razi]

My thoughts on most knock-off suspension arms:
The welds are fine, but the hardware and rodends are rubbish.

Though, my Motoria arms are pretty good in both departments...
The Godspeed lower control arm have ugly welds, but they'll hold, but more importantly they have really really horrible spherical bushings.
I swapped em out for QA1 rod ends and now the suspension can actually move the way it should.
Also, some people have had the lock nuts undoing themselves and ended up tack welding em on there, I just put on a ton of loc-tite and it's doing fine so far.
I don't know where you heard that but, highly doubt these arms are made in the same factory as Apexi and what not.

I wouldn't buy such cheap coilovers though, the extra 200-300 is worth buying Stance/FortuneAuto/Dmax, for the better ride.
Just because people weren't sure of Stance and others when they were new doesn't mean Godspeeds are going to turn into another Stance.
Look at Megan, they still have a horrible ride.
In my opinion, if you're going to have a s*** ride, might as well cut your springs like some of the Honda guys, you'll still be low and ride badly.

[charat]

why not just NOT buy anything now and buy when you ACTUALLY are going to drift/track? that way you save WAY more.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

why not just NOT buy anything now and buy when you ACTUALLY are going to drift/track? that way you save WAY more.

Because my car is not driveable or safe as it is now, I can drive it but I have such horrendous bump steer that I have to white knuckle the steering wheel if I go above 45 MPH. I'm not going to fork out the money for OEM struts/springs and arms just to replace them a year or two down the road. Sure I could sell them as used parts to recoup the money spent, but reallistically even with the low mileage they'll have on them I wouldn't get much for them.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to spend $800 or 900 on a set of mid grade coils, but like I said life dictates what I can spend on my car right now, and I'd like to actually be able to drive my car and not have to worry about a pot hole or a 2" deep puddle sending me into a wall or guardrail a** first. At this point I'm very tempted to put on the Godspeed coils, MR arms, SPL solid subframe bushings and repaint the car and just sell it. I can get more for it with those parts on it than if i just OEM'd it up. I don't have the time or money to really do what I want with it and frankly it just sits because the gf hates riding in it so we're stuck using her little red wagon to go anywhere. Plus I really want to get my hands on diesel 4x4 pickup truck.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Talk to Rob Nickens about those coils. Rob912 on here, his lasted 6 months

[Chaotic_Warlord]

6 months of DD and track usage will equate to almost 2 years on my car because like I said I'm lucky if I drive my car 1200 miles per year.

[Hoffman5982]

Meh, personally I would probably trust an oem part over Godspeed. The only reason I would feel the need to buy anything from them is purely for the adjustability.

There's too many mixed reviews from people to make it a REPUTABLE company. It's more of a "hit-or-miss" thing in terms of how long their parts will last.

This was true about their older arms. I guess we'll see how their v2 line does

[Hoffman5982]

But when a godspeed arm is MSRP 120 and a better arm is $200 and you can clearly see the joints are better, not made from cast, they are graded, and they have a full write up on how they are made on their site and you still choose the cheap arm.... well then your just cheap and careless.

Or your extremely tight on cash and need them asap