Suspension Upgrade Questions

[Raz007]

To the OP: when are you planning on doing your install? My shocks and springs got here today, so I have all the parts I am waiting on. I am going to do it this weekend, possibly starting on Wednesday. So I'll throw any info I come across your way. What all did you order?

[Razi]

I remember Hoffman usually being a chill and helpful guy but sometimes he gets pretty worked up.

He was also slagging off Nico, if he likes Zilvia so much, he can stay there.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

I've been doing a little research on ISIS stuff and it seems to be pretty dang good considering the price. Being fully backed by Enjuku is a strong sign that their parts aren't totally "junk" knockoffs. I have yet to see a completely justified bad review of any of their parts. I also know if there are any problems, Ken over at Enjuku is happy to take care of them. The parts might not be quite as top notch as their competitors like PBM or Greddy but the price definitely reflects that. They seem to be in the middle of the pack with most of their parts taking a little "finesse" to fit in perfectly. This proves you get what you pay for, especially in such a competitive aftermarket field that there is for the s-chassis.

Whether or not that is acceptable is completely up to the owner of the car.

[SilviablhS14]

I agree completely. I think all that was uncalled for from both ends but I am new here so what do I know.

To the OP: when are you planning on doing your install? My shocks and springs got here today, so I have all the parts I am waiting on. I am going to do it this weekend, possibly starting on Wednesday. So I'll throw any info I come across your way. What all did you order?

I have had them ordered for a while and sent to my parents house since I'm still in school and I really can't get large packages sent to my place at school. They have all been delivered now and I plan on starting on the install the start of next week. Which just so happens to be my spring break and almost a year since I've had the car.

The parts I ordered are BC BR Type Coilovers, ISIS Suspension Arms, ISIS Aluminum Subframe Bushings, Energy Suspension Differential Bushing, Energy Suspension Full Bushing Kit. I also order a skid plate because my school has crazy high speed bumps and I used to bottom out all the time in my Neon which was stock. So I figured I would protect that oil pan. I'm also planning on changing the rear brakes to the z32 calipers and E-brake with drilled and slotted rotors. I'm also going to attempt to change the ball joints. I'm hoping they won't need to be changed but I bet they are OEM.

[Razi]

Haha.
This doesn't happen that often, SilviablhS14.
Don't be scared.

That is a decent list, thought I'm not familiar with BC coilovers.
As for the aluminum subframe collars, I heard quite a bit of drivetrain noise gets into the cabin after you install those, if you want it something quieter I know that FRsport sells some Polyurethane ones that are still stiff but transfers less noise.

http://www.frsport.com/Peak-Performance ... _1357.html
You have to pay a bit more though.

But, since S14s have rubber diff bushings, having aluminum collars might not be so bad, I'm not sure.
S13 diffs were solidly mounted to the subframe so that contributes to more noise.

Just something to ponder on!

[SilviablhS14]

This is part of some of the good things that I found when I was doing the endless amount of research I did before I bought these parts. This is a quote that I found on ka-t.org about the ISIS arms right from Ken and Enjuku.

...ISIS Arms:
These are 100% NOT ANYONE ELSES!! ISIS sent us a few sets to test, we didnt like them at all. So we completely redesigned them ourselves. Out of all the ISIS products we had our hand in these more than anything else. If you look at the sweep on the RUCA, The thickness on all the tubing, and the rod ends... they are NO ONE ELSES!! I personally did most of these. So you can all stop that argument. Whether someone has already coppied the ISIS arms, that i dont have much control over.

I have already seen companies copy ISIS products... It happens quick, one reason we try to keep them ahead of the game.

Why does Enjuku sell ISIS? - Because the market demands it. that is how business works. For years i fought that as a business owner. I only wanted to sell high end big name parts, and for 8 years i did. However, the MAJORITY of the 240sx community wants an inexpensive, Quality Part, sold by a reputible company - HENCE - Enjuku Racing sells ISIS.

Who is ISIS? ISIS is an over seas company/manufactuer that has been asking us to sell their stuff for years, which we resisted until a little over a year ago. We are helping them with product development and branding here in the US. There have been about 30 ISIS products that we have tested that we have either had them change or said we would not sell, because it was not up to our standards for the money.

Who else sells ISIS? ISIS is sold through about 25 different shops at this time. Enjuku is not the only seller of ISIS. Why are they selling it also? Because the market demands it.

I dont know why people get their panties so up in a bunch over this stuff.

If you want an inexpensive part that has been tested, proven, and is stood behind by one of the longest standing Nissan shops in the country.. then buy ISIS.

If you want a high end name brand.. CALL ME.. I SELL IT and have been for over 10 years!!!

It is pretty simple. I dont see the need for any arguing or name calling.


Feel free to email me - [email protected] or call me 352-241-8399 if you ever have any questions.

Sincerely,
Ken Harrison

Just thought I would share something that helped me make my decision when I made my purchase.

[SilviablhS14]

That is a decent list, thought I'm not familiar with BC coilovers.
As for the aluminum subframe collars, I heard quite a bit of drivetrain noise gets into the cabin after you install those, if you want it something quieter I know that FRsport sells some Polyurethane ones that are still stiff but transfers less noise.

But, since S14s have rubber diff bushings, having aluminum collars might not be so bad, I'm not sure.
S13 diffs were solidly mounted to the subframe so that contributes to more noise.

Just something to ponder on!

Thanks Razi! I wasn't sure about the BC Coilovers at first either but I liked what I saw on them and with a full product replacement year warranty and them being fully rebuildable they sounded good to me. As far as subfame collars you mentioned I didn't get those what I got are actual subframe bushings that are aluminum like what stance and others make. I figured that there would be more noise but most of the time I have my radio up and right now every time I take off fast everything jumps around a there is major wheel hop.

[Razi]

Ohh.

Solid subframe bushings are pretty awesome.
Are they the one that raise the subframe up about an inch?

Those are very beneficial when you're slammed on coilovers because it raises your suspension arms back up slightly to correct suspension geometry.

Hopefully your rubber diff bushings will soak up a bit of noise and not be much of a nuisance for you!

[OutToWinPAHC]

Isis, meh its only suspension and serious tonnage

[Razi]

I'll say it again.

Most knockoff parts:
Ugly but still strong welds.
Bad hardware, and the rod-end quality varies a lot.
They won't kill you.

You can buy em if you'd like.
Lets be friends.

[OutToWinPAHC]

I rather just agree to disagree on this one as none of us will agree to agree therefore we must disagree and agree on it.

[SilviablhS14]

Solid subframe bushings are pretty awesome.
Are they the one that raise the subframe up about an inch?

Those are very beneficial when you're slammed on coilovers because it raises your suspension arms back up slightly to correct suspension geometry.

Hopefully your rubber diff bushings will soak up a bit of noise and not be much of a nuisance for you!

Thats what I'm hoping for Razi. I think they are the ones that raise the subframe. I don't plan on going super low but I think that every little bit will help to correct the suspension after it has been lowered.

[Raz007]

If you guys want I can take pics of the parts I got when I get home, so you can see what the Godspeed arms look like. They are going on this weekend, so I will def report back as to how they go on, and whether or not I will be changing out the rod ends immediately or not. Figured I'd give them a shot and see where they stand.

[Fenris]

My current project came with a a mixed and matched set:
STK adjustable Tension Rods
Circuit Sport Rear Toe Rods
Intense Power RUCA's

I may end up replacing this stuff... Battle Version would look good under there...

[charat]

why not just NOT buy anything now and buy when you ACTUALLY are going to drift/track? that way you save WAY more.

I'm not going to fork out the money for OEM struts/springs and arms just to replace them a year or two down the road.

sooo you want to spend money on mediocre aftermarket suspension only to replace them a year or two later? wouldn't that cost WAY more than just running an OEM setup for now? again, WHY NOT JUST not BUY ANYTHING now AND wait UNTIL YOU ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO NEED BETTER SUSPENSION PARTS? your current setup is fine for regular use.

[VitalisR6]

Adjustability.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Bickering edited, including the quotations.

As for moving forward, if you have purchased arms or other items please chime in and tell us about them. Quality, use, good bad etc.

Circuit sports traction rods, toe rods - Welds looked good, pretty durable, and have been on my car since 2007 with no issues at all.

Megan Racing - Out tie rods and sway bar end links. Both very nice and doing the job well, but I do wish the inner or out rod was a little longer the amount of inner arm thread in the outer arm is not a lot. We lock-tited them and they have not moved unless I am the one adjusting them. Installed mid 2009

BC racing coilover - No issues at all and its been a year

Peak subframe collars - No issues at all

Energy suspension master bushing kit - Awesome in everyway, but I nbow only have the rear lower control arm bushing that I have replaced everything else.

Godspeed
RUCAS - not so bad, but I was not impressed with the welds or the material. I sand blasted the arms and they looked like hell. Penetrations in the welds, stress marks in the steel. We re-welded these and added better gussets and they are actually on my car.
Sway-bars - Now they are awesome, but the end welds were also horrible. They weren't complete, they were pitted, and they did not line up. So they were heated and bent about 1/2 inch, blasted, welds ground out and tig welded. Now I don't have an issue (but its only solid metal)
Godspeed Tension rods - Looked much better then other products, but withing 100 miles the boots for the arms were cracked and torn and the set nuts were coming loose. I took them off to check them out and the heim joint is sloppy as can be, I could put them back on and just lock tite them at alignment.Now, but that heim joint sees a ton of force, and I dont trust it.

Rather then replace the heims on the godspeed arms I am going with the PBM or SLP tension rods. Most likely the PBM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j47Sgvj3Whw[/youtube]
And
http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/page.php?14

[SilviablhS14]

OutToWinPAHC what was the process you went through when you installed your bushings? How do you enjoy the BC coilovers? What type did you get? How do you like them?

[OutToWinPAHC]

I am luck I have access to a buddys shop with presses. The oem tension rods were burned then pushed out.

As for the BC's I love them, as well as a number of friends. Now what are you paying for yours, because I may be able to get them for you a little cheaper.

[SilviablhS14]

Well I have already purchased all of my parts and they cost me a little less than $1600 shipped for the coilovers, arms, and all the bushings for the subframe, diff, and the rest of the arms. I got them through importimageracing.com. I just told them what I wanted and they gave me a good price cheaper than what I figure up at other places. If I had just got them regularly they would have cost almost $1700 plus shipping.

[OutToWinPAHC]

okay yeah about 900-950 is the norm

[SilviablhS14]

Ok good you started to scare me there for a second.

[SX APPEAL]

What no one on here is accounting for is the fact that the quality of parts isn't judged in terms of months or a couple of years, but 5,10, even 20 years down the line, not in terms of a couple thousand miles, but a couple hundred thousand. Whether they last THAT long is what really separates the rockstars from the groupies. OEM parts are made to last that long -the life of the car (of course you can argue all day long about how manufacturers are making disposable goods these days, cars included. Like PAHC said, econ 101) Either way, until someone can post a review of their experiences with parts that they've had for that long, all this talk is just that, talk.

[Raz007]

True that. And that's why if my Godspeed parts last 5 years of DD duties, I'll be plenty happy. I intend to keep the community updated on how these parts hold up. If anything I hope to provide some honest and long term feedback on these so called low end parts.

[SilviablhS14]

I feel the same way. If the parts I have order will last that long or even longer I will be pleased. I didn't buy these as a long term fix but I'm they will last for a good 5 years or so. If I wasn't on a budget and a college student that would be a different story but I am so I get what I can get.

[nickmerrone]

That is a decent list, thought I'm not familiar with BC coilovers.
As for the aluminum subframe collars, I heard quite a bit of drivetrain noise gets into the cabin after you install those, if you want it something quieter I know that FRsport sells some Polyurethane ones that are still stiff but transfers less noise.

But, since S14s have rubber diff bushings, having aluminum collars might not be so bad, I'm not sure.
S13 diffs were solidly mounted to the subframe so that contributes to more noise.

Just something to ponder on!

Thanks Razi! I wasn't sure about the BC Coilovers at first either but I liked what I saw on them and with a full product replacement year warranty and them being fully rebuildable they sounded good to me. As far as subfame collars you mentioned I didn't get those what I got are actual subframe bushings that are aluminum like what stance and others make. I figured that there would be more noise but most of the time I have my radio up and right now every time I take off fast everything jumps around a there is major wheel hop.

BC's are awesome for the price!

[Raz007]

Well I got my fronts almost all done today. Godspeed sway bar and tension rods installed perfectly. Sway bar was a direct replacement, took 5 minutes to put on. No bending, welding, heating, etc. Just dropped the old one out, and put new one on with the new bushings. Tension rods were just as easy, dropped old ones out, and bolted new ones in. Guessed at the adjustments, will be taking it to the alignment shop as soon as it's done. Megan springs and tokico blues installed fine too, no major problems.

Only issue I had today was with the camber plates I purchased. When I took the springs and such to be compressed onto the tokicos, I took the camber plates too. It seems that the plates should have some spacers or something underneath, as these are pretty flat. The stock mounts are about 4 inches thicker...... so I didn't install the plates, leading to some crazy camber with the lowered car. I'm waiting to hear back from the guy about this, maybe he forgot to send me the rest of it, or sent me the wrong ones. Anybody have any input on this??

[OutToWinPAHC]

Well I say check those tension rod nuts in a month, they may be loose. Or just lock tite them on alignment.

You were going to take pics right?

[Raz007]

Yup sure will. Just got hungry and came in for dinner. I'm gonna take my camera out after I do the rears and take pics of everything. Only it seems I won't be able to get an alignment till I get this camber plate issue sorted out. Any ideas on that? The plate bangs all over the spring plate..... the stock to is about 4 inches taller than these plates. And the stock bearing and whatnot can't be taken apart....

[Raz007]

That is the plate I have, you see how thin it is compared to the stock piece?