STOP WITH THE ROD BOLT RUMOR, PLEASE!

[boost_boy]

I personally am asking most of you guys that are new and some of the more senior members to chill on this "I need new rod bolts" crap. Most of you around here don't have high hp CA18s and some of your engine's aren't even running. Before you dump money into an area that doesn't need it, take heed to what I'm trying to tell you. I have abused more CA18's, melted more pistons, and even once had an issue with spinning bearings in my current engine and I have still yet to replace a rod bolt. NO, it not the world according to "Dee" , but I am privileged to be one of the moderators on this forum and this was bestowed upon myself and the rest of the moderation team because of our combined experience(s) and our collective knowledge of said motor. No, I don't know everything, but I know this motor and I have 11 years of experience on the CA series in general to show for it. Not trying to be a donkey-boy, but I hate to see you guys beat your brains over stuff that is not an issue for your projects. Please take heed to the info being provided to help you not make silly mistakes. Thanks for reading............

Dee

[MeanGreenS13]

check your email buddy =)

[kapower06]

I agree with you 100% Dee. It just doen't make sense that the rod bolts are the weak part of the bottom end. If so there would be a write-up or even a story on the net about how someone took the time and money to redrill the big-ends, re-tap them, source new bolts, get them re-shotpeened and re-balanced. I mean come on that would cost a good amount of money possibly as much as a new set of forged rods. Its just not worth it to me.

Im shooting for 500whp or close to it, and I replaced my rod bolts with ARP2000 series bolts,

Well kinda...........they were included with my Pauters. lol.

[MeanGreenS13]

i never said id idnt believe him, i personally would rather the extra safety, but after seeing him 2step at 7000rpm in the parking lot yesterday... i guess stock rod bolts work... if thats a stock bottom end motor that is

[r34 gtr]

Not really worried about them stretching with repeated high-rpm abuse (actually I am...) but Ive re-used my bolts a few times and next time I am in there it would be nice to be able to replace them with some ARP or similar jobs. I mean, I could just replace them with some stockers and that would be fine...but I would just feel more comfortable with some completely bulletproof ones. Not to mention they probably wouldnt run me much more than (or cheaper than?) some from the stealership. I wont bother with it until much later on down the road, but I dont plan on ever using anything but stock rods and a little extra insurance couldnt hurt. If there is still not a part number in a year or two when I get down to some serious business I will have some made and let yall know. Totally unnecessary for 90% of us, and for now if you are in that 10% just go buy some aftermarket rods.

[lilskyline240]

the reason i wanted to know if someone had Cross referenced the rod bolts is because i am a believer in using new ones. I broke a rod bolt on my 300zx that i had built. Was a reused stock rod bolt and everything was torqued down correctly. So im just hesitant to use bolts that have used before. I plan on takin my motor to 8200rpm so i figured the extra insurance would be good. But if you say the stockers are fine ill just put them back in

[MeanGreenS13]

dee, can you at least point us all towards a location fro OEM rod bolts? thanks buddy! check your emails too =)

[boost_boy]

dee, can you at least point us all towards a location fro OEM rod bolts? thanks buddy! check your emails too =)

I'm very sure any Nissan dealer can help you with this, but I'll check my connects as well. I know they'll get them for me no matter where they have to go to get them, but in all these years, I never needed them. I'll check my emails as well. Been busy building the 4G63 for my Elantra, so haven't been around the PC this afternoon.

Dee

[niscort]

Honestly I don't get the point of this subforum. Assuming what people have and what is best for them isn't what I would perceive a Moderators job to be. Who really cares if someone wants to over engineer their engine with the own money. Ultimately it is their choice, right? Wouldn't a good forum be one with a wealth of knowledge, information and fact, which will point people in the right direction such that they can make up their own personal informed decision?

Ive got no problem with anyone adding their piece, because at the end of the day, we can even learn from other peoples misguidance.

Otherwise, you might as well write up a "fact page" and cease any further discussion on the ca18 engine.

[MeanGreenS13]

hey dee btw, we might be all taking a trip to the towers meet in lauderdale here on the 28th of sept... you should ride out

[ca18datsun510]

Honestly I don't get the point of this subforum. Assuming what people have and what is best for them isn't what I would perceive a Moderators job to be. Who really cares if someone wants to over engineer their engine with the own money. Ultimately it is their choice, right? Wouldn't a good forum be one with a wealth of knowledge, information and fact, which will point people in the right direction such that they can make up their own personal informed decision?

Ive got no problem with anyone adding their piece, because at the end of the day, we can even learn from other peoples misguidance.

Otherwise, you might as well write up a "fact page" and cease any further discussion on the ca18 engine.

watch out, free thinking and questioning might get you banned around here.

[sarcasm]honestly, who would want to make there engine better when you can just get by?[/sarcasm]

[themadscientist]

I can say the rod bolts are small. Whether they stretch I don't know. I think the reason for bringing this up is people new to the motor are unsure what to do with it and a rampant rumor could take on a ring of truth. Dee is trying to save newbs from taking an unproven theory as fact and spending money they may not need to. I am always cautious with my recommendations because I prefer a lot of over engineering, Dee does not share that view. I worry about the bolts he does not. I do agree with him though that 90% of our CA builders here are never going to push their motors to the point of a bolt failure. I see way too many threads with people debating the merits of having an intercooler, "I am going for 400hp with a 190000K motor". "why doesn't my engine run" etc. I think the guys should spend more time on the basics; proper rebuilds, adequate engine management, supporting elements like cooling and fuel supply and proper tuning. Most of the builders and tuners here will hole a piston, float a valve or pop a head gasket long before they begin seeing any bolts fail, myself included.

[ca18datsun510]

i believe in you tms, you throw that rod!!

j/k

[themadscientist]

i believe in you tms, you throw that rod!!

j/k

many chicks could sing the praises of how I use my rod.

[dattodude]

Hmm CA18 rods are rather small.

j/k man.. :-)

many chicks could sing the praises of how I use my rod.

[themadscientist]

it's not the rod length, it's the stroke.

[MeanGreenS13]

I can say the rod bolts are small. Whether they stretch I don't know. I think the reason for bringing this up is people new to the motor are unsure what to do with it and a rampant rumor could take on a ring of truth. Dee is trying to save newbs from taking an unproven theory as fact and spending money they may not need to. I am always cautious with my recommendations because I prefer a lot of over engineering, Dee does not share that view. I worry about the bolts he does not. I do agree with him though that 90% of our CA builders here are never going to push their motors to the point of a bolt failure. I see way too many threads with people debating the merits of having an intercooler, "I am going for 400hp with a 190000K motor". "why doesn't my engine run" etc. I think the guys should spend more time on the basics; proper rebuilds, adequate engine management, supporting elements like cooling and fuel supply and proper tuning. Most of the builders and tuners here will hole a piston, float a valve or pop a head gasket long before they begin seeing any bolts fail, myself included.

i agree, i know hes trying to save the noobs thats why i havent given him any ****, im a noob to the CA but not a nissan noob by any means, if a stock SR can take upwards of 550-600 to the ground with just cams and boltons (enthalpy's car) than the bolts arent the weak point.

Like i told dee, i cant afford to put my motor in, blow it and pull it back out right now, id rather give it a good going over and then put it in.

right now all ive planned out is ARP head and main kits, new OEM rod bolts, Power Enterprise timing belt, Cometic Head Gasket, new oem gasket set for the entire engine with new clevitte bearings and new rings.

Thats a very minimal setup that dee assures me will be plenty safe PAST 500whp, my goal is only in the 400-450whp range on HIGH boost.. possibly with a T3T4, possibly with a GT30R or GT35R, i have not gotten that far yet because im also looking at EMS'

phil

[lilskyline240]

my goal is exactly the same as yours 400-450whp on high boost. I am also a noob to the CA world but not to nissans at all. Ive built nice ka-t setups and an amazing VG30et motor. And with both ARP made a rod bolt kit which i bought for the ka-t setups but not on the VG30et setup. I wish i had cuz i snapped a rod bolt on the dyno at 6000rpm. In my CA build since ARP doesnt make a rod bolt, i am just going to go with brand new OEM ones. Since i dont know the condition of 18yr old rod bolts

[r34 gtr]

Also, what if im just an ARP whore?

[MeanGreenS13]

THIS JUST IN! THERE IS NO ARP CROSS REFERENCE FOR CA18DET ROD BOLTS! JUN or OEM is all we have guys, did some searching on FA and Zilvia to find this out.

[Masterdebater]

Honestly I don't get the point of this subforum. Assuming what people have and what is best for them isn't what I would perceive a Moderators job to be. Who really cares if someone wants to over engineer their engine with the own money. Ultimately it is their choice, right? Wouldn't a good forum be one with a wealth of knowledge, information and fact, which will point people in the right direction such that they can make up their own personal informed decision?

Ive got no problem with anyone adding their piece, because at the end of the day, we can even learn from other peoples misguidance.

Otherwise, you might as well write up a "fact page" and cease any further discussion on the ca18 engine.

the reason why he made this topic is for info. ppl are free to do what they want to their motor but when everyone keeps strtching this lie about the rod bolts then its going to make ppl spend money where they dont need it. so like he said he is just trying to save u guys the headache and money over everyones fear of the rod bolts. now that this is a topic, everyone knows the truth and can now choose an aftermarket bolt (for assurance or high horsepower motor) or oem (save money and not be be a puss about them stretching.

[niscort]

THIS JUST IN! THERE IS NO ARP CROSS REFERENCE FOR CA18DET ROD BOLTS! JUN or OEM is all we have guys, did some searching on FA and Zilvia to find this out.

Ironically this is the trouble with rumour. You have searched 2 other forums for information and now have quoted it here as gospel. Why does no one take the time and actually measure their own rod bolts, get on the phone and get first hand information from the source?

On the same note, why waste a fortune on a power enterprise timing belt? has anyone actually broken a factory belt within its mileage? Arp mains? are these really needed? when do you stop...

I understand the sentiment, but to lock threads and pronounce to the world that the majority of readers are noob dreamers doesnt really make sense to me, and thats my opinion.

I guess at the end of the day, the subject is a touchy one for me as I would have hoped that in some way an upgrade of rod bolts would have saved the hole in my old block when a rod decided to make a quick exit (for what ever reason)

[boost_boy]

Ironically this is the trouble with rumour. You have searched 2 other forums for information and now have quoted it here as gospel. Why does no one take the time and actually measure their own rod bolts, get on the phone and get first hand information from the source?

On the same note, why waste a fortune on a power enterprise timing belt? has anyone actually broken a factory belt within its mileage? Arp mains? are these really needed? when do you stop...

I understand the sentiment, but to lock threads and pronounce to the world that the majority of readers are noob dreamers doesnt really make sense to me, and thats my opinion.

I guess at the end of the day, the subject is a touchy one for me as I would have hoped that in some way an upgrade of rod bolts would have saved the hole in my old block when a rod decided to make a quick exit (for what ever reason)

You dear member are entitled to do whatever you want and I say to any and everyone, you are also entitled to your opinion, so please speak your mind as long as you don't turn this into a pissing match and that we won't be having. I don't have to justify to anyone but the owner of the forum as to why a thread gets locked and I don't think he's going to question me as to why, either. Rumors need to be stopped and you can take it for what it's worth or don't take it all (Again, your choice).

There's too many people here dumping senseless amounts of money on small intangibles that are not normally problematic which in turn pisses them off when that cash that was spent didn't help solve their problems. I've seen too many members over the last 4 years scrap their projects because of failure to either get the engine to crank, get it to run right, or because they've blown their engines up.

Why does no one take the time and actually measure their own rod bolts, get on the phone and get first hand information from the source?)

Now that's a good question you should be asking your peers on this forum and any other forum you might post on. I do believe that in the past, this was never a concern on this forum until recently, which is why I'm doing my part to put an end to yet another rumor about this motor to rest on NICO.

On the same note, why waste a fortune on a power enterprise timing belt?

Possibly because he just wants to. It's his preference, but you still are entitled to your opinion as I'm sure this member is capable of speaking for himself. Nobody's putting a gun to any of your heads and saying don't do this and don't do that, but this is okay and so is that. Let's just call it a fair warning and an honest attempt to stop a rumor that just haven't proven to be true. But on that same quote of yours, I have never broken a timing belt. If they do break, it's more than likely an installer created problem having the belt entirely too tight or allowing bolts or whatever get inside the timing cover.

And lastly, you seem pretty upset about that hole in your block and I know it was a major step backwards for you, but what did you do to prevent that? Did you open your engine and measure your rod bolts or check your bearings? If you didn't, then guess what, you are partly to blame for your catastrophic engine failure. Which is why I can understand some of our members wanting to open-up their engines for preventive maintenance before thrashing an already thrashed motor.

If you're really wondering why your engine failed the way it did, I'll offer you my hypothesis: either you were driving around on an engine with no oil/oil pressure for an extended period or in an aggressive manner or (now check this one out) maybe the previous owner before you Over-tightenedthe rod bolts and it was just a failure waiting to fail . But that's just my theory and I could be wrong. You all have fun and do what you want with your projects, we moderators are only here because we like the CA18DET and we try to help those who want to be helped to understand some of the basics about the motor. And to the members who seem to get their panties all bunched-up and sneak in little sarcastic tid bits "grow-up" or find somewhere else to post because I'm not here for your welfare or to make you like me and if you become a booty-boy, your conduct will be reviewed for BANNING. So if you have nothing nice to say, steer clear of anything I post on because if you don't like me, then you shouldn't be reading anything I post . I don't dislike you because I don't know you, so do the forum a favor and GROW-UP ca18datsun510 and follow suit as well. Your slick little comments

watch out, free thinking and questioning might get you banned around here.

[sarcasm]honestly, who would want to make there engine better when you can just get by?[/sarcasm]

or watch out, free thinking and questioning might get you banned around here.

was totally unnecessary. If this stuff don't pertain to you and your perfect world, stay the hell out of the conversation.

Dee

[themadscientist]

i agree, i know hes trying to save the noobs thats why i havent given him any ****, im a noob to the CA but not a nissan noob by any means, if a stock SR can take upwards of 550-600 to the ground with just cams and boltons (enthalpy's car) than the bolts arent the weak point. phil

SR bolts are bigger as is the whole engine. You can't really use one engine to justify the potential of another. The SR and CA are nothing alike, they share nothing. I think it is possible to support 400hp on an internally stock CA but there would be very little margin for error which is why I never advocate that to new guys. Dee has a lot of past experience and skill that allows him to do it.

[MeanGreenS13]

Ironically this is the trouble with rumour. You have searched 2 other forums for information and now have quoted it here as gospel. Why does no one take the time and actually measure their own rod bolts, get on the phone and get first hand information from the source?

On the same note, why waste a fortune on a power enterprise timing belt? has anyone actually broken a factory belt within its mileage? Arp mains? are these really needed? when do you stop...

I understand the sentiment, but to lock threads and pronounce to the world that the majority of readers are noob dreamers doesnt really make sense to me, and thats my opinion.

I guess at the end of the day, the subject is a touchy one for me as I would have hoped that in some way an upgrade of rod bolts would have saved the hole in my old block when a rod decided to make a quick exit (for what ever reason)

i took the liberty of asking about 10 other people with BUILT ca's on Zilvia and FA, they all said they tried measuring the bolts and checking with ARP, they had nothing available and a custom set was very pricey. Im not just spouting off **** when i type something like that.

also ive seen what can happen when a timing belt breaks... its not pretty in any sense. Not going to take that chaince wioth the power im planning for. And as for the ARP Mains and Head, they are about the same price as OEM, and you get the added security of knowng, they wont let the head lift.

I'm taking my time and asking ALOT of other people on the net, INCLUDING Chris Adams, who has a 9 second datto CA powered...

Dee has taught me alot in a very short period of time about these motors. so tell me... why question me when i post something like i did above without actually knowing where and how i got that info. I got it straight from at least 10 people that they have PERSONALLY measured and called ARP and there was NO cross reference on the bolts. END OF STORY

That is all for this rant. Phil

[themadscientist]

I have never snapped a belt but I change them at 50K. If I had the option I would go with a tougher one though.

[boost_boy]

I have never snapped a belt but I change them at 50K. If I had the option I would go with a tougher one though.

I can't justify spending $135 on a timing belt, but if someone offered it to me, I'll gladly install one on one of my engines.

Dee

[MeanGreenS13]

id much rather have the safety, ive popped belts on higher hp cars before... bent every valve the motor had available it seemed... destroyed the top of a piston aswell

[niscort]

Well, I'm glad we are now having a discussion. It would be a boring world if everyone agreed.

MeanGreenS13... nothing personal, just happened to be info/reasons close on point for choosing one particular part over oem, which noone would pass up on arp rod bolts if they were available and similar cost to oem.

Dee, totally agree there was a reason why the rod parted company.. now people can also understand some possiblities, or things to be aware of in regard to the rod bolts from your reply to me.

[MeanGreenS13]

Well, I'm glad we are now having a discussion. It would be a boring world if everyone agreed.

MeanGreenS13... nothing personal, just happened to be info/reasons close on point for choosing one particular part over oem, which noone would pass up on arp rod bolts if they were available and similar cost to oem.

Dee, totally agree there was a reason why the rod parted company.. now people can also understand some possiblities, or things to be aware of in regard to the rod bolts from your reply to me.

if i was really SUPER concerned... id be heading towards the JUN website to order some of their CA18DET rod bolts...