Stock KA long block 404 RWHP 409 TQ Record?

[marshun]

thats pretty crazy. i want

[IvanAtSPRacing]

hey Ivan, did you ever find out about those sites i showed you that already had EMSs for 91-94 240s for sale? one of them had it on "clearance" haha

Yes, I did see the places that have them for sale. I found it quite scary that a business would take money from you and sell you something that isnt even availble yet. The "clearance" part is really scary.

I can assure you that when it is available, I will be one of the first to know about it.

When it is released, it will probably be priced simular to the Honda units. You will however need a wide band, MAP & harness, IAT & harness which will probably end up being about two thousand dollars for everything you will need.

I believe in the AEM EMS. Its the last unit you will EVER need to buy for your car. Anything you want to do to your car your covered. Different TB / TPS your still good. DIS your still good. NOS, you still good. Everything and anything you want to do to your car and your GOLDEN. We have used it on the 240, Mustangs, Lexus, Supras, DSMs, Hondas, etc... Every time we were able to make more power then ever... Although the HP numbers we got out of the 240 are record setting, its still the LOWEST HP we have made with the AEM. Our shop Supra has made 1147 RWHP thru a TH400 trans with a non locked no sprag high stall converter. Its amazing what you can do with the AEM.

[jdmfreak]

Dman! I think I will be needing that in the future.

[Red-KAT]

What knock did you use to tune?

[IvanAtSPRacing]

What knock did you use to tune?

Stock knock sensor. The AEM uses and reads the factory KS output and displays it in voltage.

[Nismo_Freak]

Another thing to note is that it may have made 544 WHP but ONLY MADE 412 TORQUE. The dyno run I posted shows 409 TQ and the run before that while adjusting the MBC we accidently got boost to 18 psi and made 431 TQ before letting off. I guess I didnt just shatter the KA-T record, but I KILLED the SR TQ record at the same time (for a "stock" bottom end).

Sorry to rain on the KA parade, but the SR Enjuku built was made to operate in high RPM's, like a Honda, thus torque will never be as great as the horsepower.

They built the car for horsepower numbers, not response. In that case, regardless of how much more "stock" your engine is, it's still 140rwhp short. On a stock internaled 4 cyl., 140rwhp is alot. Not saying it can't be done, just bringing up a point.

From a tuning standpoint, you have a longer stroke, more displacement, 3000+ rpm boost threashold, stock low duration camshafts, small ports, long runner manifold, and a higher compression ratio. If you can't beat out an engine that has the exact contra to what I just said in torque production, you're doing something wrong.

Open that engine up, don't put forged crap in it. I'm interested to see what it can do. If it blows up, put another stocker in there and go at it again. The KA should have 500 in it.

IBKAownersgonuts

[klattr1]

Nismo Freak,Did you just say "Forged crap?"Thats quite an oxymoron. If he were to have "forged crap" in that motor, he would be posting dyno numbers much much higher depending at what HP/boost level the turbo maxes out at.Why not buy good stuff so you can beat the hell out of your car without worrying about those weak components internally.

[TrunkMonkey]

Nismo Freak,Did you just say "Forged crap?"Thats quite an oxymoron. If he were to have "forged crap" in that motor, he would be posting dyno numbers much much higher depending at what HP/boost level the turbo maxes out at.Why not buy good stuff so you can beat the hell out of your car without worrying about those weak components internally.

i agree with "forged crap."

i'm confident that a completely stock KA can stay at the 400whp level reliably. people rely waaay too much on overbuilt engines and not enough on learning how to tune. most of the high powered KAs that have had short lived lives all had forged internals, aftermarket head gaskets, o-ringed blocks, etc, etc...while there are a few completely stock 350+whp KAs that have been around for several years. go figure.

-demetrius

[WDRacing]

Piggy backing the forged Crap comment...no one in the KA world has found the max internals of the KA. If they have popped one, its only do to lack of tuning. The pistons on the KA are almost identical to the RB20, which I got 498 out of with Alochol.

I'm actually debating on a custom set of hypercraptic pistons with a thicker ring land. They have almost NO blow buy and no stupid piston wall expansion to worry about, so you can run way better ring clearences.

If Ivan had a set of 256 or better cams and his head was ported, he'd have 75 more horses right now.

Don't listen to Alan either...he's and SR lover. KenJuko's SR is goin down..down down down, SR's goin down.

Brian

[IvanAtSPRacing]

I promise that at some point, I will find the limits of the stock motor. I dont think it will be with this car though. I am sure that I will find a cheap S13 that I can use as a dyno mule.

My 95 5 speed is up for sale right now and my project race car is an AT that is getting a forged motor and full T4 turbo before it hits the Dyno.

[WDRacing]

I'll seeya at the finish line, I'm also going for the stock internal record as well as the anything goes KA. Your a few steps ahead so far though. My car is still in the garage in pieces...lol.

You guys should really look into methonal injection, if your not already that is.

[Nismo_Freak]

If Ivan had a set of 256 or better cams and his head was ported, he'd have 75 more horses right now.

Don't listen to Alan either...he's and SR lover. KenJuko's SR is goin down..down down down, SR's goin down.

Brian

At least that much!

I like em all you truck motor drivin Nazi!

[Nismo_Freak]

Nismo Freak,Did you just say "Forged crap?"Thats quite an oxymoron. If he were to have "forged crap" in that motor, he would be posting dyno numbers much much higher depending at what HP/boost level the turbo maxes out at.Why not buy good stuff so you can beat the hell out of your car without worrying about those weak components internally.

Because I wanna see what these KA's can do on stockies!

The KA has to have 500 in it.

[michael Walters]

I have built 471whp stock internals and 509whp with only up grading the pistons(KA). I have built many ka motos and have found out many things about what it can and what it can not do.still i think that the stock moto can make over 500whp but you must have every thing right on the moto,you can not make any mistake.

[klattr1]

I have built 471whp stock internals and 509whp with only up grading the pistons(KA). I have built many ka motos and have found out many things about what it can and what it can not do.still i think that the stock moto can make over 500whp but you must have every thing right on the moto,you can not make any mistake.

do you happen to have any dyno sheets on the web anywhere for your 471 rwhp or 509 rwhp runs?

[michael Walters]

yes i do, and will post it once it is posted and you want confermation ask boost boy (dee) he say the dyno runs and track times

[klattr1]

im not trying to start anything. I just wanted to see it along with everyone else in the KA-T world. I know you are with BYP and I've heard rumors of how powerful and fast your car is. Shoot, I've even downloaded your 350rwhp video, but I have never seen any dyno plots.So you still have the same car and the same setup now or what?

[michael Walters]

yes it is the same car with the same setup. I will post the dyno plots.

[nikn]

Im not sure if these are the exact numbers, but this kade has a 9.5:1 CR and the SR has a 8.5:1 ratio.

One thing i'm interested in is when you're runnning full race gas, how high can u boost the engine if it has a 9:5 CR?

[TurboKA37]

Im not sure if these are the exact numbers, but this kade has a 9.5:1 CR and the SR has a 8.5:1 ratio.

One thing i'm interested in is when you're runnning full race gas, how high can u boost the engine if it has a 9:5 CR?

by adding a turbo kit you will be able to run boost by having the turbo add compression to the intake. race gas makes it safer to run boost because it will resist detonation better than pump gas. and 9.5:1 CR really isnt that high when you look at some of the newer vehicles. i know some of the honda engines are running near 11:1 out of the factory.

[jdmfreak]

Damn! That high?

[Projex240]

Enjuku used a thicker hg--that chanegs alot of things. And also--you cant compare the enjuku car to the stock ka here--its not the same car--it also uses border 850's and a short runner along with a bunch of other crap that this ka doesnt have.Forged crap??!

The statement makes no sense. To all that use stock motors---going on stock internals is not the way to go if this is a car that is to be driven daily--in the heat, and anything other than a shop car. I believe that Ivan even said it wouldnt leave the shop like it is--he would detune it. I think what Ivan has done here is great, and Im waiting for more--its an inspiration to alot of people. But the car is not practical--because, regardless of what is made at the wheels--is was not made to be the highpower monsoter that it is. Its a timebomb if driven at all as it should be. I get tired of hearing about "350 whp cars that are driving around for years now" Where?! I only hear of a select few--and they arent close to that power level at street trim--they are turend down--WAY down. And the "one" that everyone talks about all the time ran with no exhaust and race fuel on a dyno and the numebrs were corrected. Impressive, yes----but not an everyday occurance--for the dirver who has this ar for everyday---build a forged motor and have more peace of mind.Ivan--keep it up--this is really impressive what you have done. I would like to know just for entertainments sake what this car you have can handle. 400 on stocks is great---but 600 on forged is WAY better. Build a 9.6 forged cr motor and rape all who dare cross your path. Peace---

[SHIEF]

So what are you doing with the EGR system? Are you running a tube into the downpipe or have you gotten rid of it completely with the AEM?

[turtl631]

Yes, this is Heath and Keith Henderson's car. I am trying to get their car ready for the Chicagoland 240 club meet. I have 16 cars in the primary shop and 10 more in the second shop all waiting to be worked on so its going to be a crunch. Anyway the info on the meet is:

Day: Sunday, June 13Time: NoonLocation: Miami Woods @ Oakton and Caldwell in Niles, IL.

If anybody is interested there are supposed to be 20+ cars attending.

I'm interested..where else can i find info on this?

[TrunkMonkey]

Forged crap??!

The statement makes no sense. To all that use stock motors---going on stock internals is not the way to go if this is a car that is to be driven daily--in the heat, and anything other than a shop car.

pay atention to what's being said. no one is telling anyone to not run forged internals. it's just time for the envelope to be pushed some more when it come to the stock KA.

I believe that Ivan even said it wouldnt leave the shop like it is--he would detune it.

Originally posted by IvanAtSPRacingWhen the car goes back to the customer, it will be running less then 16 psi. probably hit the street with about 330 - 350 HP.

i'll take that "detuned"car any day.

But the car is not practical--because, regardless of what is made at the wheels--is was not made to be the highpower monsoter that it is. Its a timebomb if driven at all as it should be.

this sounds almost like one of those "the KA wasn't meant to be turbocharged" statements.

I get tired of hearing about "350 whp cars that are driving around for years now" Where?! I only hear of a select few--and they arent close to that power level at street trim--they are turend down--WAY down.

no they're not. whitebunny is a prime example. his car stays at 1.0 bar all the time.

And the "one" that everyone talks about all the time ran with no exhaust and race fuel on a dyno and the numebrs were corrected.

who was this?

Impressive, yes----but not an everyday occurance--for the dirver who has this ar for everyday---build a forged motor and have more peace of mind.

i've always encouraged people to do whatever gives them a peace of mind, and i try not to make people think like i do.

400 on stocks is great---but 600 on forged is WAY better.

and not streetable at all.

-demetrius

[boost_boy]

I've seen the stock (internally) KA do as much as 480 to the wheels, but something will eventually let go whether it be a headgasket or spinning a bearing; eventually something will give. The biggest problem seems to be that some girls/guys who have just jumped on the boosted KA wagon keep forgetting that it is not a rev monster. Timing is another part of the equation that people seem to forget. I can't say for all and by no means am I bashing any ROM tuners when I say I will not trust such tuning if I didn't do it myself. Bench tuning is a static reference and your ecu may not perform on your car as it did on the test bench.

I've watched Michael's car over the years put out good #s and also be a pain to him as well. Power doesn't come without a stiff price, so big power hunters be prepared to sacrifice some parts and $$$s to the boost gods. He's put down as much as 509whp on his last engine which lasted a very long time, but eventually (like any race driven engine) it weakend and he removed it. But on that same motor he ran a best 11.5 @130mph while rolling his car out the hole and there is video of this on my video tape. Now he has a fully built motor. Time for him to evolve! He's pushed the envelope with the stock KA, but thus it is time to step it up because the playing field is getting nastier and nastier everyday.

Dee

[cys19]

Since the SR'll peak at around 544 whp, at what whp do yal think the KAT'll peak, with all the same type of mods done to the sr that peaked 544whp? I'm a newbie, so please don't bash me in if this is a dumb question.

[Projex240]

I knew that response was coming...

Yes--someone did say that forged internals were crap and that you should run stockers. I disagreed with that idea. "id take that detuned car anyday...."me too--im just saying that it wouldnt hit the street with over 400 to the wheels. A 4th gear dyno pull is very different than ripping thourgh all 5 gears. The car reacts differently to the different loads it will see in each gear, revs are fast in the lower gears etc...dyno numbers dont determine how reliable a ka will be. However, ther are plenty of built ka's that run around with 400--and they are plenty streetable AND reliable. Klatter for one...rick--pornfalkes (sold) etc etc. Ill hopefully have the built motor done within the next month or two. 9.0:1 or 9.5:1. And yes--i hope for it to be nasty. Alky injection, nitrous, the works.White bunny may run around with it. I dont know him at all. BUT--cars that run with 1 bar on the street all the time are more the exception than the rule. Its not common to do, and if you do, most dont pull it off. YET. Thats why i think this is a great post. Theres no arguing that what ivan did was awesome, but i believe in something that is a little more stable and willing to stand up to abuse than KA stock internals. When these power nimbers become commonplace, then itll be the norm, but for now, all ive seen the norm as is people run power like that, and alot of times the motor doesnt last."this sounds like a nother one of those 'the kas wasnt meant to be turbocharged' statements..."Umm--it wasnt. If it was, It would have been turbocharged from the factory. The cams would be designed with boost in mind, and the ecu would behave differently in regards to maf readings and etc..The kas wasnt meant to be turbocharged. But even so--that doesnt mean that when it is turbocharged, that its not a VERY capable motor. I like the ka for its torque. I like it because it came in my car, i can work on it, find replacement parts with ease..etc. The guy i was referring to was dennis. His car was run with no exhuast and race gas on 15 psi with a granatelli maf (blow through) so his car is not exactly the "norm" in regards to the typical street driven 240 either...and no, he doesnt run around at that power level. I do like his car though ill skip over one point for a sec---600 whp can be totally streetable. hell, if 544 is, then why not 600? Ball bearing, built motor, and maybe some gas. Sounds plenty streetable to me. You dont have to be running with 600whp all the time. a 600hp car riding at 350 on the street would be perfectly fine with me..

and the last point--if you dont try to make people think the way you do, then why analyze my post with no intention other than to basically ARGUE with every point i made? It served no educational merit, yet you went on just typing away anyway.I dont appreciate having my posts broken down, analyzed disagreed with at every statement by a mod who, as I can see, spends more time on this forum than with his hands on a motor. I work on my ka plenty, how about you? Mine is coming along nicely, hows yours? Mine runs great and handles like a dream...yours? My point is, I believe I have a really good idea as to what im talking about because i WORK on 240's enough to. AS far as i can tell, you dont. Reading compressor maps looking at dyno charts and knowing everyone elses ride from top to bottom doesnt make you an expert. Thanks for taking the time to respond with pointless, hardly justifiable arguements. It makes this site lots of fun to visit.

[Projex240]

let go whether it be a headgasket or spinning a bearing; eventually something will give. The biggest problem seems to be that some girls/guys who have just jumped on the boosted KA wagon keep forgetting that it is not a rev monster. Timing is another part of the equation that people seem to forget.....

I have heard from mckinney motorsports. They had a 600 whp car, but that problem at that stage of power is that the man bearings **** up and the car gets unstable at that power level--yall had any exp. to back this up or give any comments on it? I am aware of the supposed "harmonics" of the ka--but im no engineer. so i have no idea whether this is true or not....im sure every mtor has harmonics to one degree or another. I wonder though....Does the ka have a wall that it cant surpass due to its original design of the black/crank/head?

[f1seb]

Is it just me or has the price for the fuel system all of a sudden jumped up by about 100 dollars?