Stillen or Racingline

[Blake@STILLEN]

Haha no I was just waiting for this to get good! Not to start anything, but the Stillen guys I feel are making a bad rep for their brand by basically coming on here and bashing on Racingline. I know you're trying to support the brand you originally chose, but have an open mind guys...Anyways I've had great experience with both companies however I think the Racingline RSB is more what I am looking for, from what I've heard it's better for the track handling wise..

I didn't realize that I was bashing Racingline. Do you mind quoting my statement and bolding it so we can all see?

[DJ_B_Easy]

Stillen didnt bash Racingline, reread the thread eslotten. Blake has not said a single negative word towards Racingline.

I got your back Blake!

[DJ_B_Easy]

but the Stillen guys I feel are making a bad rep for their brand by basically coming on here and bashing on Racingline. I know you're trying to support the brand you originally chose, but have an open mind guys...

Unless "the Stillen guys" he is referring to are the members who chose the Stillen products and not the Stillen staff. In which case, they arent really bashing either.

[eslotten]

Maybe bashing wasnt the correct term Blake, I was rambling and didnt reread what I had said, sorry if you took it the wrong way...all Im saying is to keep an open mind about other products, Racingline and Stillen both have wonderful items for our coupes!

[Blake@STILLEN]

Stillen didnt bash Racingline, reread the thread eslotten. Blake has not said a single negative word towards Racingline.

I got your back Blake!

Thanks dude!

All I was doing eslotten was sticking up for our products. When members have questions and/or concerns, I do my best to address them, and I felt that not every concern was taken care of yet, so I kept with my responses

[beeristasty]

iirc, the person had their oem sway bar break, so they said look at this sucky oem sway bar - it snapped in half. So they upgraded to the Stillen bar and the same thing happened. In the same exact location. And then the person said that the Stillen sway bar sucked too.

But if you looked at their photos of both bars, they both broke in the same spot. Instead of diagnosing why the oem bar broke in the first place, they just bought a replacement bar and bitched about it after it failed due to the same reason.

Anyways, both bars broke right where they go into the bushing. They only way I think this could happen is if it was too tight a fit - sway bars should rotate relatively easily. So my theory is that when their rear suspension compressed, the bar couldn't rotate upwards, causing it to snap right where the most shearing force was concentrated - at the bushing mount.

[Ranga14]

Haha no I was just waiting for this to get good! Not to start anything, but the Stillen guys I feel are making a bad rep for their brand by basically coming on here and bashing on Racingline. I know you're trying to support the brand you originally chose, but have an open mind guys...Anyways I've had great experience with both companies however I think the Racingline RSB is more what I am looking for, from what I've heard it's better for the track handling wise..

Funny, I get the complete opposite, it actually shows GREAT care and concern that they have a rep addressing everyone like they have here. And where exactly did he actually bash RacingLine? To me it seemed like he was simply promoting his product.

[eslotten]

Funny, I get the complete opposite, it actually shows GREAT care and concern that they have a rep addressing everyone like they have here. And where exactly did he actually bash RacingLine? To me it seemed like he was simply promoting his product.

Thanks for the input Ranga ...I didnt mean to make it sound as bad as I did, just poor debating on my part lol

[Ranga14]

np yo

[andyhenault]

I think I can clear a few things up that people have mentioned. When your car corners, the body leans out of the turn. If you suddenly turn in the other direction, the body rolls from one side to the other, and can unbalance the car. This is how the 'scandinavian flick' works. Think of it like carrying a bunch of heavy s*** in your car that gets thrown to the outside every time you turn. In many situations, it'll cause you to lose control and ruin your day. The easiest way to keep a car flat through corners is to stiffen the coils. Lowering springs will always be stiffer and will have this effect. The problem with lowering springs is that they increase the car's 'ride frequency/rate' from stock to an uncomfortable one. You are also supposed to increase damper stiffness with an increase in coil stiffness. Not doing this will cause the car to oscillate after a bump, and burn out the dampers prematurely. BUT, coilovers are often too expensive for most people's taste. So how do you keep a car flat without compromising a comfortable ride rate or spending a lot of money? Sway bars.

A sway bar/anti roll bar links the left side of the suspension to the right side via a torsion spring (the bar), so that when one side goes into jounce, the other side does as well, reducing body roll. Sway bars affect the 'lateral load transfer' of the car.

However, if the rear of the car is has a stiffer swaybar than the front of the car, the rear outer corner tire will load up much more than the front outer tire. This will cause the rear end to slip more than the front, and cause the car to oversteer. Stiffening the rear end too much will cause the car to handle worse than stock. However with a FWD car, it has a tendency to understeer, so this usually isn't an issue.

The best way to test how you have everything dialled in is a skid pad.

TL;DR Swaybars are a cheap way to make a car faster through corners without messing up suspension with lowering springs or buying coilovers.

[Mikegsg9]

I hope this thread isn't dead. I recently got a 2012 Altima 2.5s four door. It's only got about 1,200 miles on it as of now. Would getting aftermarket sway bars void any warranties? I could always ask the dealer, but I figured someone might know. Also, I'm not looking to mod my car really at all. It's fast enough for me and does everything I need it too. I wouldnt mind the suspension being a little tighter when cornering. Has adding swaybars significantly made your car more fun to drive. Would it make since to get only a rear sway bar, I'm thinking Racing line on the stiffest setting. Would this be bad for snowy and slippery surfaces. Understeer is scarier in snow, but without rear wheel drive it seems it would be tricky to control oversteer. Do you recommend front and rear sway bars? Also i was thinking new endlinks would be a must as well and Any idea how much a shop may charge to install. I'm not looking for crazy mods, this sounds like the best mod for the money to improve driveability and maybe make commutes a little more fun when I'm in the mood. Sorry if these questions are answered somewhere else. Thanks for any info.

[SEismyG]

I hope this thread isn't dead. I recently got a 2012 Altima 2.5s four door. It's only got about 1,200 miles on it as of now. Would getting aftermarket sway bars void any warranties? I could always ask the dealer, but I figured someone might know. Also, I'm not looking to mod my car really at all. It's fast enough for me and does everything I need it too. I wouldnt mind the suspension being a little tighter when cornering. Has adding swaybars significantly made your car more fun to drive. Would it make since to get only a rear sway bar, I'm thinking Racing line on the stiffest setting. Would this be bad for snowy and slippery surfaces. Understeer is scarier in snow, but without rear wheel drive it seems it would be tricky to control oversteer. Do you recommend front and rear sway bars? Also i was thinking new endlinks would be a must as well and Any idea how much a shop may charge to install. I'm not looking for crazy mods, this sounds like the best mod for the money to improve driveability and maybe make commutes a little more fun when I'm in the mood. Sorry if these questions are answered somewhere else. Thanks for any info.

I've said this before but I'll say it again. I took my car down to Lake Berryessa for some mountain driving and fun in the sun. During that time, I had Racingline's RSB & STB (rear sway and strut tower) and I can say that my car was planted on the ground. I went into turns on a skinny stretch of road up in the mountains at 40+ on OEM tires. I heard a little noise from the tires but that was it. There was no body roll of anything of that nature. Those bars won't void anything unless the dealer proved that it was the cause of any failure that you might have with it on. The swaybars alone just made my car a little stiffer, didn't really notice anything unless I hit a turn hard (which I do alot ). You're not looking to mod all out, I suggest going with some eibachs and calling it a day. It will offer stiffness that you will feel and more "fun" on you day to day commute. But it's your choice in the end. If you get the RSB, get the STB to complement it as well. Don't worry about the snow, I have a picture somewhere in my wifeys camera that shows my car in 2 feet of snow. I was able to plow through it just fine. Remember...they're just bars...BTW, install it yourself, shops will eat you up. If you're on a budget- RSB &/or STb ORRRR Eibachs. Happy semi-modding

[IconicBlackCoupe]

Sorry stillen but racingline performance has been nothing if not exactly what I need. Quality service and products at an amazing price. Stillen is top notch as well but they're pricing is a little more than I am willing to pay. But I will be picking up that light weight pulley from you guys.

[el_blacky06]

Used to get stillen parts but they're lacking new parts for our cars so I ended up going further to getting racingline parts.
I've been saying before to the stillen representatives that if there's no new parts for the altima, business will soon go elsewhere.

[mike.alwa]

A question for Blake@stillen. Why did stillen decide to go 20% stiffer than stock where racingline goes 100% stiffer and up. I wonder if both companies spend much time testing these products (not being negative) just saying that's a huge difference and if they really are that different in stiffness one must perform much different than the other. I'm under the impression stiffer isnt necessarily better. Less, body roll doesn't exactly mean better handling. In general how do these companies decide how much bigger to go than stock I suppose?

[kscott]

A question for Blake@stillen. Why did stillen decide to go 20% stiffer than stock where racingline goes 100% stiffer and up.

I'll jump in here... When I bought my bar from Racingline, the numbers they told me via email at the time were:
The Stillen bar is 2.0x the stiffness of the stock 2.5 bar.
The Racingline bar (on "soft" setting) is 2.5x the stiffness of stock 2.5 bar.
Both of these were measured at 1" of deflection. So the difference in stiffness between the two is reasonably small with this setting.

they both broke in the same spot.[...] both bars broke right where they go into the bushing. The only way I think this could happen is if it was too tight a fit

As to breakage concerns, I've done yearly cleaning and relubing of the bar where it goes through the bushings. Even after just the first year, the powder-coat finish had worn through in the areas of high-pressure contact, and the underlying metal was starting to pit. It's hard to imagine any bar having a finish tough enough to keep that from happening. So a hollow bar will rust & break before a solid bar. I think that how soon a solid bar breaks would depend on the quality of the metal and how quickly that unprotected area rusts. But regardless of possible breakage, the pitting in that area will eventually get bad enough that it starts to tear up the bushings, and you'd replace the bar when it gets to that point. After 3 years, mine still has a decent amount of service life left.

I'm very happy with my Racingline bar.

[kscott]

Would getting aftermarket sway bars void any warranties?

No.

I wouldnt mind the suspension being a little tighter when cornering. Has adding swaybars significantly made your car more fun to drive. Would it make sense to get only a rear sway bar

Yes and Yes.

On the other hand, this past spring, I had the bar removed from the car for about a week, and with snow tyres on the car at the time (lots of sidewall flex and reduced cornering grip on dry pavement), didn't really notice a difference with or without the bar. So part of it might be psychological, or at least it depends on being able to corner the car with enough force that it'd lean over without a beefy bar.

The biggest issue with an aftermarket sway bar is the need to periodically lubricate the bushings. I'm not sure what the best service interval would be for this, but I've lubricated mine once per year, and not had any problems with it squeaking.

Would this be bad for snowy and slippery surfaces. Understeer is scarier in snow, but without rear wheel drive it seems it would be tricky to control oversteer.

I was somewhat worried about oversteer before installing my Racingline bar. No need to have been. My car has had 1200 miles on the stock bar, and 48000 miles on the Racingline bar. In that time, I've had one minor oversteering "incident" with the stock bar, and one other with the Racingline. Both of them occurred while applying the brakes in a curve, due to the Altima's brake balance between the front and rear. It had nothing to do with the sway bar. Recovery was a matter of realizing the cause of the oversteer and letting up on the brakes.

Do you recommend front and rear sway bars? Also i was thinking new endlinks would be a must as well

On Altima, the front is very difficult to get to; I think the steering rack needs to be removed for access. As a result, no one makes an aftermarket front Altima bar.

As to the endlinks, I would not recommend the Racingline links in the form that they sell them. I am using a set myself, but in my installation, use a completely different way of attaching them (link to thread). The problem is that they use polyurethane bushings which are not really meant to be used this way. They depend on these poly bushings being hard enough to keep the bolt from flopping up and down, and to simultaneously be soft enough to form a seal around the Heim joints, and not interfere with their normal movement. They're just not going to do both things.

So far, the Racingline links have held up well with my modified way of attaching and sealing them, but it makes it a more complicated job, and not something suitable to hire a shop to do.

Any idea how much a shop may charge to install

Just replacing a rear sway bar is a simple job. Easy for DIY, or if you don't have the space or tools, it shouldn't cost that much for a shop to install it.

[mike.alwa]

Thanks for taking the time to answer those questions. I really appreciate it. That's plenty of information for me to make a decision. It will be a minute yet, but thanks again for all the detail.

[mike.alwa]

Also, what is the brake bias in the front? It's funny I live in Wisconsin and had an awd volvo s60 which I loved to play around in in the snow. With the Altima In an attempt to get the back end out around some (safe location) corners I would brake very slightly with my left foot as I stayed on the gas a bit through the corner. What that should do is lock up the rear wheels more than the fronts since your on the gas and the wheels in the front are powering through the brakes a bit more, like a less powerful e-brake application. Then I was at the dealer one day for an oil change and was reading on nissans technology that turns down engine power if you accidentally hit the gas and brake at the same time. No wonder my attempts were never that successful.

[mike.alwa]

not to sound like a hooligan, was just testing the technique

[mike.alwa]

sorry to keep going, but that is also an effective technique to save your self from an understeer, if nissan did not have that feature.

[kscott]

Also, what is the brake bias in the front? It's funny I live in Wisconsin and had an awd volvo s60 which I loved to play around in in the snow. With the Altima In an attempt to get the back end out around some (safe location) corners I would brake very slightly with my left foot as I stayed on the gas a bit through the corner. What that should do is lock up the rear wheels more than the fronts since your on the gas and the wheels in the front are powering through the brakes a bit more, like a less powerful e-brake

Sounds reasonable. The Altima has electronic brake biasing; my guess is that they may be using that to get away with an initially heavier bias toward the rear than what it'd be with just a fixed proportioning valve, and then if/when the rears start to lock up, transfer more to the front.

was reading on nissans technology that turns down engine power if you accidentally hit the gas and brake at the same time. No wonder my attempts were never that successful.

In snow with a FWD car, I've always had good luck ending an understeer by just letting up on the gas. But this is just at low speed, and not attempting to make it oversteer.