stick or automatic??

[franman187]

why is there a lot of people that prefer stick over automatic? whats the pros and cons about both?

[Eikon]

Most people who chose a manual transmission do so because they feel it's a more engaging and enjoyable driving experience. There is a much more direct link between your foot and the power to the wheels. In most cases (not including the high end exotics with the flappy paddles).. the manual transmission option will offer better 0-60 times as well. In the past, manual transmission also got you more mpgs.. but this has changed in recent years.. so no longer the case. Manual transmissions are typically less expensive to buy, a little more reliable in the long run.. but do have to get the clutches replaced from time to time..

Automatics are less engaging, but also easier to deal with. If you commute and have lots of stop and go traffic or lights, etc.. then the automatic will be a better option. Thanks to recent 5,6 and now even 8 speed transmissions, the mpgs are now better in automatics. They require only one foot, and no hands once you put them in gear.. so you have a free hand to eat, put on make-up, talk on the phone, text message, play with the radio, and all those other things nobody should do while they drive.

In the end it's completely up to you which direction you want to go.

[nissangirl74]

I think everyone should know how to drive both, regardless of what you own. It would suck (or be dangerous) to be stranded somewhere just because you didn't know how to drive a manual trans. An automatic transmission tends to be more costly to repair if it fails, much more than the cost of replacing a clutch.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Actually, modern automatics (and CVTs) often claim to get better MPG, but in real world applications, people are finding the manual offers as good or better MPG

[breadbox]

I like manuals better because it lets me control the powerband better. The automatic shift whenever they feel it is appropriate in relation to how you mash the go pedal.

Also downshifting to pass or merge feels more controlled. I hate passing cars on two lane roads in autos, due to this loss off control over the powerband and the sluggishness in accel I have experienced in most autos I have driven (My wife's Tiguan is an exception here because its transmission behaves more like a 5speed and suits my driving style).

Also I will take time to mention that I like throttle cables over drive by wire, because of feel. I do not like the feeling of being disconnected from the road, which is probably why I like crappy tuner cars that are inherently low, with horrible sound deadening, and feel quick more than they are fast.

Also the difference in cost of replacement is huge between the two, especially with newer cars. But being that I am into 80's and 90's vehicles, transmissions seem to be reversed in that ratio, mainly due to the fact that tuners prefer manual.

[breadbox]

Actually, modern automatics (and CVTs) often claim to get better MPG, but in real world applications, people are finding the manual offers as good or better MPG

Also if CVT or manual are the options then go manual and set the CVT on fire, everytime.

[Rogue One]

Actually, modern automatics (and CVTs) often claim to get better MPG, but in real world applications, people are finding the manual offers as good or better MPG

Compared to current automatic transmissions, the manual transmission offers only a minor advantage IF there's a competent driver at the wheel.

For most people it's more a matter of personal choice. I tried to learn how to drive a stick shift, but I'm seriously uncoordinated, so I felt it was safer for all concerned that I stay with automatics.

That being said, I'm more interested in what people here think about dual-clutch transmissions.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I prefer manuals. But, really, it's simpler than that: I DESPISE, with passionate, fiery, burning enthusiasm, automatics.

Automatics are crap. Even the best automatic is crap. Why? Because it will never have any idea what I, the driver, am about to do next. It can react. It can never anticipate. I can. And because of that, I am 100% better at all things than an automatic. I can be in the right gear at the right time, not shifting as I realize I need that gear already. I can skip gears. I can hold gears. No automatic will ever do these things effectively.

The 5-speed automatic in my Lincoln is one of the best autos I've ever used. It's absolutely tolerable. In manual mode it's even fun and 90% effective at doing what I need. But a manual would still be significantly better. I could shift faster. I could utilize the clutch. I could skip gears completely rather than rushing through them sequentially (If I had a manual, I guarantee my city MPG would jump dramatically because I'd only need to use 2nd and 5th).

I can't really comment on auto mode as I only use it on highways when cruise is set, and even then I can count the times the car has felt the need to shift itself on the highway over the last 55,000 miles on one hand.

It's just like Apple and Android.
If you want your car to "just work," get an auto.
If you want your car to do what it's TOLD to do, get a manual.

I've never in my life wanted anything to "just work" at the expense of versatility, so I'll prefer manuals until someone devises an automatic that can read my mind.

Actually, modern automatics (and CVTs) often claim to get better MPG, but in real world applications, people are finding the manual offers as good or better MPG

When the first-gen Versa launched, this was a big complaint of a LOT of SL buyers. Nissan's CVT fuel economy claims were bogus, and manual owners were getting significantly better results in everyday driving.

[Mark Mellott]

All of the previous posts are excellent replies. Mine ... not so much.
I have made my son "learn to drive" with a manual because it includes learning how to steer and brake. Like that's all you learn in an automatic. Seriously though, a manual transmission gives the driver a much better feel of the road in relation to the drivers control of the car's power and I believe it makes for a safer driver when one learns with a manual.

I spent some time in Australia last year and found out that if you take your driver's test on the road with an automatic you will be given an "automatic only" driver's license making it illegal for you to drive a manual. If you take your road test in a manual, you will be given a license to drive either one. Australia believes a driver that knows how to operate a manual can without question or demonstration drive an automatic. Like I sort of said previously, if all somebody knows is how to steer and brake they do not know how to drive.

[gwoods]

In traffic give me an automatic any day of the week. If you are in rush hour everyday you might consider a auto. If you are not the manual transmission will last longer, clutches will not. I'm sure there is a person on here who got 200k miles out of a clutch but that isn't normal.

Manual transmissions used to be faster and better mpg. Now they are neither. Modern cars 2009+ have automatics that run circles around what you can do with a manual transmission. You don't need to take my word or anyone elses word for it. Look at the supercar manufacturers and see what transmission choice they give you for sub 4 second 0-60 runs... you might find a manual or two but if there is a automatic available its faster and better mpg.

There is nothing as satisfying in a car than changing gears yourself (some days this is the best part of your day period (American Beauty)).

[nissangirl74]

My preference is manual and gas mileage has nothing to do with it. We have manual trans cars that get 60 mpg and manual trans cars that get 18 mpg. It's all about the driving experience, the fun factor.

[ricebike]

Eikon is right-on

key words "more engaging." you are enjoying the ride in the manual than in an automatic

i learned how to drive my 240sx, which is a fun-to-drive car to begin with, from my motorcycle days & having a stick-shift was the icing to that cake

and it's seems simpler/cheaper to replace the clutch kit of a manual trans than to take apart an auto trans innards to replace all those clutch plates

i still have yet to learn how to pop-the-clutch when my starter or battery fails

& still have to learn how to do clutch-less shifting/ rev-matching or whatever you call it; i don't want to risk damaging my trans/clutch system
------------------------------------------------

slight off-topic:

Also I will take time to mention that I like throttle cables over drive by wire, because of feel. I do not like the feeling of being disconnected from the road

some of the drive-by-wire systems i've driven aren't that bad when it comes to feeling disconnected from the road

[PapaSmurf2k3]

i still have yet to learn how to pop-the-clutch when my starter or battery fails

Holy crap I completely forgot about that! I've done it so many times hahah.
It saves you a tow bill and all you have to do is ask a stranger to give you a push while you pop the clutch haha.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pj4GY_7q8w[/youtube]

[Jesda]

With small and midsize cars, a manual transmission triples the enjoyment, easily.

I've got a BMW 840, BMW 740, Lincoln Aviator, BMW 3-series, Porsche Cayenne turbo, a V6 Camaro, a Camaro Z28, a mustang Cobra, a fox body Mustang 5.0, and two Northstar Cadillac Devilles at my disposal but I prefer to drive a 1988 Subaru XT to and from the shop because the light clutch, low weight, and precise shifter make it a hoot to throw around ramps and take off from stoplights. I only fetch the other cars in case I need to carry friends around or take a girl out.

Sure, my actual rate of acceleration is slower than a 1990 Camry but I feel like a rally champ winding power out of that little 110hp boxer engine. Plus, it gets 29-37mpg in regular driving. There's no TCS, no ABS, no stability system, or anything else between me and the road except four tires, a seat, and a steering rack. Maintenance is practically free thanks to 13" wheels, low fluid capacities, and plentiful parts.

The pleasure is in its purity. If this car had an automatic, I'd hate it.


Now, there are some manual cars that I hate, like the 90s Mustang Cobra. The heavy clutch and its vague actuation make it a pain to drive, literally. My left knee hurts after a few miles of traffic.

[Jesda]

Oh, and mine looks like this but in light teal with more rust and body damage:

I'm also missing three hub caps and none of the tires match.

The exterior condition keeps people from parking too closely and the manual transmission is a nice form of theft protection. I never lock it.


I need to take it to the central west end and have it valet parked at a nice restaurant, just for the hell of it, and step out wearing nice shoes and a fancy sport coat.

"Here's a 20. Keep it parked out front, please."

[Bubba1]

My preference is manual and gas mileage has nothing to do with it. We have manual trans cars that get 60 mpg and manual trans cars that get 18 mpg. It's all about the driving experience, the fun factor.

This ^.
Automatics have become sophisticated enough to erase the advantage in acceleration and fuel economy of manual transmissions. in fact, the more advanced dual clutch automatics can shift gears in a small fraction of a second. The remaining big differences are driver involvement and complexity. If you're a enthusiast, driver involvement frequently trumps shaving tenths of a seconds making a manual transmission much more appealing. But that's not necessariy the case for all enthusiasts as there are those that crave those quicker shifts, or drive in urban areas where shifting can get cumbersome due to traffic. The complexity issue is usually ignored until something goes wrong AFTER the warranty expires. Being more complex means a WHOLE lot much more pain in the wallet when (not if) something breaks. It's not as important when it happens to a Maserati, Ferrari, or Porsche, as expensive repairs are expected with exotic cars. But with the industry using them in more affordable cars, it' becomes a downright catastrophic repair when it happens after the warranty expires. That's not something a car manufacturer cares about, but it sure should be something a used car buyer cares about, especially if he/she buys it without (or after) the warranty.

Like nissangirl74, I also much prefer manual, mostly for the driver involvement and simplicity. I much prefer the experience of heel/toe downshifting, which only takes a little practice, rather than just simply mashing the brake pedal while flicking a finger. And since I tend to keep my cars for many years, call me crazy but I'd rather pay a few hundred to replace/replace a clutch rather than a few thousands for a dual clutch automatic transmission. Since you're a teen, I would hope keeping repair costs down would be a factor in your buying decision.

[breadbox]

In traffic give me an automatic any day of the week. If you are in rush hour everyday you might consider a auto. If you are not the manual transmission will last longer, clutches will not. I'm sure there is a person on here who got 200k miles out of a clutch but that isn't normal.

I am pretty sure I am on my stock madza protege clutch and I am over 200k. I also had a nissan 720 that had a factory clutch when I took the motor out that had a good amount on the clock. Keeping clutches alive is more in how good are you in first gear... most people I ride with today are not that great.

Manual transmissions used to be faster and better mpg. Now they are neither. Modern cars 2009+ have automatics that run circles around what you can do with a manual transmission. You don't need to take my word or anyone elses word for it. Look at the supercar manufacturers and see what transmission choice they give you for sub 4 second 0-60 runs... you might find a manual or two but if there is a automatic available its faster and better mpg.

Most autos were 4 speeds, now they are a lot more complicated and don't only have two shift conditions. Rallye drivers like autos a lot of the time but then again they have two feet and need to make split second decisions constantly so it makes sense to keep one foot brake and one foot gas, but they don't care about economy or traffic either... doesn't mean that rallye driver likes driving autos per se.

Also when you have a redic amount of stock HP, paddle shifting and just staying on the road is enough to keep the driver busy while not maintaining legal speed limits in a supercar.

Also I will throw this in there. If you ever F up your clutch leg/knee/ankle/foot, you will hate your manual until the leg/knee/ankle/foot is better.

[Jesda]

Autos are nothing but a bunch of crazy voodoo magic. The pre-electronic ones operated by vacuums and valves and sh*t are even more mystical.

I do not trust things made of magic.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Jesda was stabbed in the heart by a unicorn.

[gwoods]

I am pretty sure I am on my stock madza protege clutch and I am over 200k. I also had a nissan 720 that had a factory clutch when I took the motor out that had a good amount on the clock. Keeping clutches alive is more in how good are you in first gear... most people I ride with today are not that great.
Also when you have a redic amount of stock HP, paddle shifting and just staying on the road is enough to keep the driver busy while not maintaining legal speed limits in a supercar.

.

These two points yep I knew we had at least 1 person on here that is on the original clutch and probably one of the better drivers. I put almost 300k on 1991 a Toyota truck as a service manager in my late teens and the factory clutch went over 200k. With a vehicle like this you really only need the clutch to get started from a stop after that you can match the rpm's and just shift without it which is what I suspect your doing with your 200k clutch.

My Jaguar (and Greg will agree with this) would be slower if it were a manual transmission and it does a very good job of replacing some of the joy via paddles.

And I have rebuilt one automatic transmission, they don't run on magic its all snaprings millions of millions of micro-level edge oriented snap rings. Put one ring in upside down and the case will not close.

[Bubba1]

And I have rebuilt one automatic transmission, they don't run on magic its all snaprings millions of millions of micro-level edge oriented snap rings. Put one ring in upside down and the case will not close.

]

was that transmission rebuilt under warranty? If not, perhaps you could share how much it cost. That might put things in perspective for the OP, who is a teenager seeking his first car.

FWIW, my 4 runner has almost a quarter million miles with it's original clutch, and it shifts fine.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I went 220 on my original Prelude clutch, then I blew it at NICOfest Savannah

It still got me home.

[elwesso]

I've found that a properly built automatic can be almost as fun as a manual.... note how I said ALMOST. Before I converted my Q45 to manual, I had a built manual with a shift kit and high stall torque converter. That was a lot of fun, because the way the shifter was setup is I could control what gear it was in with NO over-rides by the electronics. That was cool.

There is still no replacement for being able to be in full control. It definitely leaves a lot more room for error. I also like the fact that it eliminates a large group of people (including most of my family) that can drive either one of my cars...

"HEY CAN I TAKE YOUR CAR FOR A DRIVE"
"SURE"
"OH, I CAN'T DRIVE A STICK"

I like to let the universe unfold as it should. If they can't drive a manual, they probably have no business driving either of my cars.

[elwesso]

With small and midsize cars, a manual transmission triples the enjoyment, easily.

I've got a BMW 840, BMW 740, Lincoln Aviator, BMW 3-series, Porsche Cayenne turbo, a V6 Camaro, a Camaro Z28, a mustang Cobra, a fox body Mustang 5.0, and two Northstar Cadillac Devilles at my disposal but I prefer to drive a 1988 Subaru XT to and from the shop because the light clutch, low weight, and precise shifter make it a hoot to throw around ramps and take off from stoplights. I only fetch the other cars in case I need to carry friends around or take a girl out.

Sure, my actual rate of acceleration is slower than a 1990 Camry but I feel like a rally champ winding power out of that little 110hp boxer engine. Plus, it gets 29-37mpg in regular driving. There's no TCS, no ABS, no stability system, or anything else between me and the road except four tires, a seat, and a steering rack. Maintenance is practically free thanks to 13" wheels, low fluid capacities, and plentiful parts.

The pleasure is in its purity. If this car had an automatic, I'd hate it.


Now, there are some manual cars that I hate, like the 90s Mustang Cobra. The heavy clutch and its vague actuation make it a pain to drive, literally. My left knee hurts after a few miles of traffic.

I agree... This is a similar experience I had with an 84 BMW 5 series I had. With 180HP when it was new (so probably down to about 130 by the time I got it), it was a blast to drive with a 4.5 speed (I say 4.5 speed because it didn't really have 3rd gear).. With an automatic, it'd be like driving an older, boxier, and funnier smelling version of a Honda civic.

[gwoods]

I think I spent about $500 I did the work myself with the exception of paying a dodge dealer $100 to perform quick learn clutch volumes so it didn't give you whiplash when it changed gears. I had to replace the input hub and I had it hardened. I used sun coast Koleen clutches.

I already had a sun coast torque converter that stalled at 2800 rpm, a transgo 2 shift reprogrammer kit, a plm deep aluminum pan, trans cooler, and had drilled the valve body myself following someone's YouTube instructions.

Sadly the first day I drove it with the repaired transmission piston #3 lost its ring land. I swapped in a new rod & piston and traded the truck for my g35.

[gwoods]

Old input hub vs new nitrous kills parts

[MinisterofDOOM]

I've never understood the "in traffic" argument for autos. I've driven both types of transmissions in all types of traffic. Even if I DID agree that manuals are tedious in heavy traffic (and I don't) that small drawback doesn't come anywhere NEAR outweighting the numerous, significant, and everpresent drawbacks of an automatic. Occasional small downside. Big, constant downside. Pretty sure one outweighs the other no matter how much you hate traffic.

[BusyBadger]

I've never understood the "in traffic" argument for autos.

What's the largest metro/most contested area you've had to deal with on a regular basis?

[MinisterofDOOM]

Drove a manual pickup in Salt Lake City traffic (also known as "the land of eternal road construction") for years. Everything from rush-hour stop-and-go to lane-closure backups. Utah is famous for working on all alternate routes through an area simultaneously, so I spent years making a 45 mile (each way) commute on I-15 and I-80 through major construction.

[gwoods]

I-10 west in July at 5pm laughs at any road outside Chicago or lax