Well this is a strange one alright.

I had ordered the Performance Tools relay tester and a test light with a hook on it so it would stay hooked on without me having to sit there and hold it, that way I can test the starter wire. The S connector as its called.

So the results are the same with the Emulator vs the Steering Lock Module so I do believe the emulator works but we won't know until the car is running.

Regardless, this is what I have confirmed. All the fuses are good. The black relay on the front of the IPDM box is good, but unsure what that is for. Its the only relay on the front and above the WHITE wire, which I believe to be the S wire, to the starter, the large white wire on the box. I have also put the test light right at the starter and am not getting a START 12v signal to it.

So I had the wife sit in the car and when you press the brake pedal and I also confirmed with a test light that both switches on the brake pedal work and the brake lights light as normal and the second switch, whatever thats for, also works.

When she goes to start the car, I run a test light on the WHITE wire, its the same color WHITE and same thickness about 14 gauge, no light or 12v comes on, but I here a momentary click on the IPDM box as if some relay is kicking on, and that must be the starter relay because it momentary, click and then click off in a 2 seconds or so about the time a starter would run, but no signal is coming out of that box to the starter. All the dash lights come on, stereo, everything lights up, you hear clicking under the hood and you hear the fuel pump kick on. Starter does not turn. B wire has 12v, S does not. I also confirmed that the FUSE block at the 12v terminal of the battery, the one that has 6 large inline fuses in a clear plastic window, all those are good.

So far this is looking like something with the IPDM. Now this box, are their relays on the back because it looks like its not supposed to be taken apart?

Here is a picture of my IPDM, all the fuses are good. That big white wire in the middle, I think thats the S , starter wire like indicated in the manual.

So is this IPDM a whole unit replacement and will that be a "dealer thing" cuz its got to be programmed to the computer? Is there been a common relay on this box that goes bad, maybe I can replace just the relay?

The relays inside the IPDM are all soldered to the circuit board, and it's hellish to try to desolder and repair them. The boards are multi-layer with gobs of copper, so even using bismuth solder it's very difficult to pump in enough heat to desolder multi-pin components. I don't recommend trying it unless you have excellent equipment and soldering skills. I'm a guy who can hand-solder quad flatpack IC's without batting an eye, but I won't work on IPDM's even for my best customers.

Based on the Nissan layout at that time, I'm pretty sure the removed relay is the wrong one. The Starter Control relay on all the similar Nissan IPDM's is the one on the right.

IPDM's before about '17 didn't need any configuration or programming, they're all plug-and-play. Some later ones need to be configured.

The relay hole on the left is the way it came out and there was no relay there from the factory. So that relay on the right, you can see I beat it up good trying to get it out, that must be the starter relay and it tests good. The PT tester cycles the relay 5 times and you get a green light each time. It jogs the relay I guess so you can see an intermittent failure.

The IPDM boxes on Ebay are going for about $100-$200, exact one with just the one relay on the upper right. Everyone listed is missing that one relay.

I have a remote starter switch and was thinking about putting that on there and seeing if I can make the car run. If so, then I guess that would be a good test of those relays in the IPDM box. The large green input wire, that appears to come from the fuse box on the drivers side kick panel out the back and its got 12v positive, so still pointing here to IPDM box.

I don't mind spending the money on the boxes I just want to be real sure that's the issue, because we know what will happen if I have to put this in a shop, it would be at least $1000. So I need to find a way to test the IPDM box. I will try the starter jump next.

Thanks for the reply.

Sorry, I figured you pulled the relay. Not all of them use it, no biggie if the slot is vacant. There will be a part number someplace on that IPDM, make sure you get the right one. Lookalikes will give you a big headache, and tons of Nissans use IPDM's that look identical to yours. If the part number isn't on it, visit InfinitiPartsDeal and plug in your VIN to get the right one, then use that number for shopping. Buying computer parts by make-model-year and physical appearance will bite your a$$.

You are not kidding. I am looking on Ebay and the 370z uses the same one, looks identical and those are cheaper, around $50 and the Infiniti ones about $100-200. Found one on an 09 g37S coupe, mine is 2008 Journey automatic coupe, looks identical $80, wiring is identical because they chopped the harness so I can see every wire color matches, also I liked they chopped it, that means someone else hasn't plugged it in yet, because I am finding plenty the harnesses are all gone. I am going to try and match it as close to same year and part # must be identical.

Ok, I ordered it. Be a week to get it. I double checked. Every wire, every #, everything is 100% identical. Wiring 100% same. Thats important, because if it were a standard, dunno if that would have additional wiring or not, or less, and it says from and (S) sport model and mine is a Journey automatic, and many of those are standard. $86 with shipping, one of the lowest priced ones, looks clean, and its an auto parts dealer. We will see.

The physical appearance isn't the issue, the software is. The only thing that matters is the Nissan part number.

Its looking to me that its the starter. So I looked up when I bought the starter and its a remanufactured OEM Hitachi, and I know it was rebuilt in China because it said so on the box, and got it off Rockauto, $222 on 6/2022 was the order, out of the 12 month warranty.

When I hook my remote start switch to it, I can "force" crank the car and it runs.

So when I turn the car off, and just engage the trigger on the remote start switch, I hear the starter motor run, and makes the "zzzzz" sound but it does NOT engage the flywheel, and it does not actually turn the engine as a result, so you don't see the crankshaft turn nor the s-belt or pulleys, just a "zzzz" sound.

Now, if I sit in the car and hit the START button at the same time and hit the remote starter button at the same time, the car cranks right up.

Now, if I do NOT hit my remote start button, and hit the START button on the dash, the car starts on its own every other time, kinda as if the starter was "loosened up", couple that with the intermittent nature of this, makes me think the IPDM is just fine. I did get the part in with a 30day return but wanted to double check the starter prior to this as I am not convinced its the IPDM and want to be able to return the IPDM for a refund by not installing it if I can avoid that.

This intermittent nature of this, stranding me, then cranking like every 3rd time I hit the START button the dash makes me think its the starter. Just running that by everyone on the forum see what they think. That means the starter lasted 20k miles.

Starters are easy to check, and worn out brushes or sticky Bendix drives are frequent causes of intermittent issues:
https://www.nicoclub.com/archives/under ... tests.html

Looks like it was the starter. I was able to jump the starter using a remote start switch and it would crank, however, it would NOT using its own solenoid which makes no sense what-so-ever, but this entire mess as been a shh-ton of "coincidences".

When this started a month ago, having just the LOCK light lit on the START button the dash, and nothing would work except the remote could unlock the doors, everyone online said "Thats the Electronic Steering Lock Module" and when I removed the module, drilled out the security bolts, reset the plunger on it, and re-installed it, the car ran great for 2 more weeks , no issues.

When its started to do the same thing again, and I hit that module with a hammer, and the car started right back up after hitting it, that also was "coincidental" that it started. Now, these last few times, the dash would light, but not start, so that was a newer issue. I guess its possible the starter and the ESLM all burned out at the same time. The battery also had to be replaced about 2 months ago.

This entire time I said to myself, well its got to be that or the IPDM because "whats left", surely a OEM rebuilt Hitachi starter from Rockauto lasts longer than 20k miles.

Nope, don't go spend the money $220 for that starter as I got a whopping 20k miles, 1.5 years out of it before it failed again.

So I installed the cheap $86 new Chinese starter from Amazon and it works perfect. Car starts everytime now, well I have only tested it twice while its still on the lift. I have a Ranger Quicklift in my garage since I do all my own work.

Thanks allot guys for the help. Its been a journey. That car in the past 4 months has needed all these parts and a new water pump, pulleys, belt, its been a real show alright. According to Rockauto I have spent $2000 in parts in the past 4 months and these are all repairs, not upgrades. Water pump alone was $800 with all the gaskets and replacement pulley kit.

Oh, also, this is important, this Steering Lock Module hack does in fact work with or without the 10amp motor fuse in. Its on my car right now and its running because I tore that electronic lock module up by removing all the gears in it and taping down the buttons.

https://www.uhs-hardware.com/products/2 ... g-and-play
Thanks again.

Car is slowly getting back on the road. So I put the car back together, runs fine except the KEYFOB light stays lit on the dash and it did have a pending code #0603, ECM fault.

Thats new, there was no codes before I went into this latest repair. I never disconnected the ECM or the IPDM. The only thing that has changed is I am now using the emulator for the steering lock vs the actual electronic steering lock box from Infiniti.

I erased the code and the check engine light went out. Some say the code will clear on its own but I am not holding my breath since the car has had so many issues already.

P0603 is almost always the byproduct of a dying battery that went into "Never Never Land" around 8~9V. There's a specific procedure for diagnosing it, but 99% of the time it will go away and stay away simply by erasure:
http://www.370zcoupe.com/TSB/1SE8.pdf

Yes, seems that is the case. I erased the "pending code", which is what it said.

I am using Torque Pro and one of those cheap ELM327 OBD plugs if anyone is wondering.

It says Code P0603 "Engine Control Module (ECM) KAM error". KAM is the ECM memory I am reading online.

Thats not very smart of Nissan to make the KEYFOB light indicate all kinds of things like the electronic steering lock motor going bad, and KAM memory errors. Common sense would dictate that the KEYFOB light should come on when there is only problems with the KEYFOB. Others I am reading are blaming Renault for all this. I would too, because those were horrible cars.

People saying online because the battery was disconnected for awhile which it was, mostly disconnected for 2 weeks, that its lost its memory and I guess it will go away once it re-calibrates.

I left it mostly disconnected and would only connect it as I was testing that Electronic Steering Lock box.

So far car is running fine, have drove it very shorts distances because I am expecting to get stranded a few times now.

Warning lamps are a sore subject all over the industry, because everybody is designing modules that squawk about communication issues. The infamous ABS/skid lamps from engine codes are the archetype on Nissans, the engine gets a P0101 or some other BS code and quits broadcasting the RPM, at which point the ABS throws a C1130. The latter only means the ABS can't hear the engine and it won't stop the ABS from operating, but you get the lights anyway. People immediately think OMG, my car is self-destructing. It's dumb, but these are the same engineers who invented limp mode, caring more about preserving the machine than the fact that the occupants might get run over by a truck if it goes limp in the fast lane or an intersection. NHTSA doesn't track that, but if they did it would scare the crap out of people.

When I learned engineering it was drilled into us that machines should always do the best they can with whatever resources they have, and warn the operator. Nowadays the warnings often mean your machine is about to become an idiot, on purpose. I never understood the philosophy and still don't. What's disheartening is that it's getting worse instead of better, you should see some of the amazing Christmas trees that pop up when some of the new technologies fail. I've seen as many as 7 different lights and warnings turn on simultaneously from a single ADAS problem. Fut the wuck, people??

I don't have an issue with computers as I am an IT Tech anyways, so as long as its accurate, and you can diagnose it on your own with minimal tools, then I am cool or better yet, its open source. Surprised someone hasn't come up with a universal computer for cars based on Arduino boards or something like that.

I am in my 50s and remember when a coil pack went out, the car ran bad or not at all and you had to take a multi-meter and test the ohms of each pack, no codes, and that sucked.

Up until this KEYFOB light thing started and the car wouldn't start, its been dead on accurate with the codes. It correctly told me which coil packs were going bad, and after the 3rd one failed, I just changed out the rest of them, but it was accurate. It also knows when the gas cap is off, correct on that a couple of times, and also a bad oxygen sensor.

Where I get mad and everyone else feels the same way is if they make stuff "dealer only". To me thats nothing more than planned obsolescence and price gouging when you make something computerized and the only computer that can actually program or erase codes, is at the dealer and they won't sell that software to anyone, or its way over priced like in the $1000s. To me thats a scam. Its even more of a scam if only the dealer can erase a light and you cannot pass inspection until that light on the dash has been addressed.

Car runs good now, think the computer has adjusted and no codes have come back and I have driven it about 30 miles now, a few trips. The KEYFOB light is still on however, and I am not sure how to turn that off. I sure hope this is not because of that steering wheel lock emulator and it won't ever turn off.

stephensatt wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:24 pm

Where I get mad and everyone else feels the same way is if they make stuff "dealer only". To me thats nothing more than planned obsolescence and price gouging when you make something computerized and the only computer that can actually program or erase codes, is at the dealer and they won't sell that software to anyone, or its way over priced like in the $1000s. To me thats a scam. Its even more of a scam if only the dealer can erase a light and you cannot pass inspection until that light on the dash has been addressed.

You have to get with the scanner manufacturers about that. As an IT guy, I'm sure you can appreciate the hazards that would result if the car was run by a single, monolithic computer. One cosmic ray in the wrong place and you could drive off a cliff. So distributed processing is inevitable. Where scanners fall down is on systems like ADAS, Around View, and Auto Back Doors, which almost nothing but the most expensive scanners can read because the codes are proprietary and not OBD. Nissan is already using CAN gateways because the number of modules has gone way past their traditional 4-bit addressing, and every one of those modules has its own CAN lexicon. That's the price of having all that tech onboard, but asking a $39 generic scanner -- or even a $399 one -- to read all of that is asking for miracles. Unfortunately, sometimes the only tool that will do the job is our $10,000 Consult. I don't like it either, but if people want the tech -- and they definitely do -- then sometimes your only option is going to be "dealer only".

VStar650CL wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:46 am

No programming for ESCL's. In fact, we always keep a couple of discarded-but-working ESCL's in the tool room for no-start gen4 Alties and gen7 Maxes with the dreaded yellow key. That way we can temporarily plug in a good unit and drive it into the shop instead of towing it.

Question, I have the same issue, seen the forum the other day and i like the information you said about the lock not needing programmed.

My question, i frequent the junkyard and the irony many 2009 Nissan Murano’s that I have the same type habe different locks, almost but different shape and fit, but i have the rectangular tan cover and many dont have the same.

Now their is a part number on the outside of the box, is that paramount too match the number i have now or it does not matter? I did get another unit from an Altima I think but different number and it did show the push button and brake pedal on the dash, it was not before but it still did not crank.

And isnt the brake and push button supposed to go away once you hit the pedal!?

Thanks again for your insight!

Bad brake switches cause a lot more no-starts than steering locks, so unless you have the Yellow Key Light of Death and the car won't wake up, your problem is very likely something else.

Part numbers on the ESCL's don't matter much, the Altima/Maxima ones are pretty universal on the years that used them. Most of the '08~'09's have had the recall done and the ESCL is a dummy, those are a different part number and somewhat different appearance from the working ESCL's.

VStar650CL wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:26 pm

Bad brake switches cause a lot more no-starts than steering locks, so unless you have the Yellow Key Light of Death and the car won't wake up, your problem is very likely something else.

Part numbers on the ESCL's don't matter much, the Altima/Maxima ones are pretty universal on the years that used them. Most of the '08~'09's have had the recall done and the ESCL is a dummy, those are a different part number and somewhat different appearance from the working ESCL's.

Thanks for the response. Yes I have the yellow key of death lighting displaying. I have changed the brake switches but may have to pursue them again. Yes many are a totally different build because they will not even bolt in the same way. Also my metal actual lock piece that goes up amd down is in an “L” shape, the used one I got is rectangular, different part number and the metal piece is just strait, must be a rime and reason.

But i did watch a vidoe and i am going to go back in adjust the initial, set the buttons and see if that works!?

Ugh..the irony is a bought it from an auction not running, needed a starter..replaced that..was driving a few weeks then I noticed the speed omiter not responding..so went in and thought the sensor was under the starter..some are this was not..so I did detach the ecu..dont think that mattered because the battery was already detached but put everything back together and has not started since..about a month ago..i can by pass the key and start so i know the starter is good and I do that from the engine bay relay..and have switched the fan relay and it starts..

I am gonna re tackile the ignitions switch lock and the brake sensors.

But i believe when it was running that the steering was not locked when the engine was off i think!? And i am thinking that is one way you know if it is working one from the junkyard if it is locked!?

But will see in a few days. Thanks again.