SR20DET red top vs black top

[zeroskills]

ive been asking and researching on what is the difference between the two (red and black top) and i found out that black top gives more HP...

so i would like to get your opinion on what is better a RED TOP or a BLACK TOP SR20DET engine...

any help is appreciatedSR20DET RED TOP VS BLACK TOP

[Tweaky_Tom]

Welcome to the forum. Use the seach button. There's at least 100 previous threads with that exact q. <<tom>>

[zeroskills]

if you could post the link here i would really appreciate it...

or if the admin can merge this thread to the other thread

[DanielIser]

FYI there are very few differences between them. The blacktop has a better fuel management system AKA it is better on gas mileage. It also has different sized cam gears, not actually sure if they are bigger or smaller. The redtop is a little more built toward upgrades than the blacktop. I orignally ordered the blactop and was shipped the wrong motor, and now I am kinda glad that happened because I plan on doing major upgrades in the near future. Basically the redtop is more stable with the upgrades or something like that. Other than that there is not many differences

[karay240]

are you asking about the difference b/w the S13 red and black top, or the difference b/w the S13 red top and the S14 black top?

[240SXer]

FYI there are very few differences between them. The blacktop has a better fuel management system AKA it is better on gas mileage. It also has different sized cam gears, not actually sure if they are bigger or smaller. The redtop is a little more built toward upgrades than the blacktop. I orignally ordered the blactop and was shipped the wrong motor, and now I am kinda glad that happened because I plan on doing major upgrades in the near future. Basically the redtop is more stable with the upgrades or something like that. Other than that there is not many differences

I don't buy that. The engines are almost identical. Same HP output, etc. The only main difference is the blacktop is newer, that's why I got one. It also looks more stock. Sorry dude.

[rbsileighty]

I have always been told, "If you want a SR with good stock power and don't plan on many mods (mild bolt-on approach)... go with the blacktop. If you plan on a fair amount of mods, including turbo upgrades/internal upgrades etc... go redtop."

[240SXer]

Probably because the redtop is cheaper, and if you're gonna go all out with internals the less miles of the blacktop does not matter

[rbsileighty]

Probably because the redtop is cheaper, and if you're gonna go all out with internals the less miles of the blacktop does not matter

Exactly, and the blacktop's stock turbo is slightly better than the red's turbo.

[thes14project]

if it's an s14 notch top black top. the blacktop and red top s13 are like the exact same engine with different valve covers.

[240SXer]

The S14 motor has Vtech and puts out +20 hp and has a better turbo. But the S13 blacktop motor is the same as the redtop. I have a S13 blacktop. Just like a redtop but with less miles.

[karay240]

instead of beating the dead horse again, I did a search for you. . . http://nissaninfiniticlub.com/...d+top

[Nissan_fanatiC]

The S14 motor has Vtech and puts out +20 hp and has a better turbo. But the S13 blacktop motor is the same as the redtop. I have a S13 blacktop. Just like a redtop but with less miles.

are you some kinda "i watched the Fast and the Furious and now i know everything about import cars" person? what kind of Nissan, or any car as a matter fact besides Honda is it that has VTEC (not Vtech) valve timeing electronicaly controled-variable valve timing. Even if it did have some type of VVT, it wouldnt get 20 more HP. nissan didn't even offer varible valve timing on the SR20DET, or any other Nissan as far as i know. they both use identical Garret T25 turbo's, so i dont see how one turbo is better than the other.

[skitzo]

The amount of misinformation is truely amazing, all it takes is 2 minutes of reading to find out the differences between the engines.

The s13 red and blacktop are exactly the same as far as specifications. The valve covers are different colors (obviously) and the blacktop is a newer engine (96-98 I think) where a redtop was produced from 91-93.

The S14 blacktop has 20 more HP. It has VVT, a different turbo (T-28) and low-port rather then high-port intake design.

[rbsileighty]

The second gen of the S14's came with T28 BB turbos.

[DanielIser]

Nissan did put VVT on the s14 sr20dets. I am not sure about the s15, but the s13's never had it!!!

[240SXer]

are you some kinda "i watched the Fast and the Furious and now i know everything about import cars" person? what kind of Nissan, or any car as a matter fact besides Honda is it that has VTEC (not Vtech) valve timeing electronicaly controled-variable valve timing. Even if it did have some type of VVT, it wouldnt get 20 more HP. nissan didn't even offer varible valve timing on the SR20DET, or any other Nissan as far as i know. they both use identical Garret T25 turbo's, so i dont see how one turbo is better than the other.

hehe.. It could gain +20hp from just variable timing. I think it's apparent to everyone here that Vtech is a Honda thing. I just say Vtech because it's funny and everyone know what i'm talking about anyway except a moron. Learn before you talk and sound stupid. I have a blacktop motor, however I don't have an S14 motor. The S14 is the one with the VTECH. It didn’t offer Variable Valve Timing on any SR20DET? You are that ignorant on SR20s yet you have the nerve to come in here talking to me like you're some sorta of expert? It's basic and common knowledge that the S14 has a T28 and VVT. You're the one who is stupid for not knowing. Did you get all your knowledge of SR20s from Fast and the Furious? Must have. Since you don't know much about them.

And if one saying a BMW, Nissan, etc. having Vtech confuses you I’m sorry. But let me let you know that in the import car arena many people refer to any Manufactures Variable timing to Vtech because ricers like you have made the term popular. What do you have done to your 240 btw? Intake/exhaust + stickers? Nice looking rims there too, they look great with those side skirts tucked near that stock exhaust; ricer.

[NISTECH]

knock it off guys

[Tweaky_Tom]

Uh...im just gonna say search again. If you're too lazy to look yourself. Odds are you don't have any motivation to mod your car anyway. All it takes is some reading so chill out guys.

[BoyWonder]

S13 Redtop vs S13 Blacktop: From what I was told, the differences are very minor. Something like a larger secondary O2 Sensor? Whatever, the blacktop will be newer so that's a plus, but other than that, nothing major (that I know of).S13 Blacktop vs S14 Blacktop: The S14 model had VVT on the intake side, a larger turbo, and will be newer. Not sure if there is anything else. I'm just going by what I was told. I'm sure people could correct me Edit: Sorry about basically repeating what was already said, but after the first few "fun" replies, I skipped the rest and just replied..

[nismostate]

No you guys. s14 and s15 comes with t25's and s13's are t28. I can't believe how funny the replies are.

Edit: Is it true about VVT only on the intake side? Good info boywonder.

Pretty much 240SXer summed it up.

hehe.. It could gain +20hp from just variable timing. I think it's apparent to everyone here that Vtech is a Honda thing. I just say Vtech because it's funny and everyone know what i'm talking about anyway except a moron. Learn before you talk and sound stupid. I have a blacktop motor, however I don't have an S14 motor. The S14 is the one with the VTECH. It didn’t offer Variable Valve Timing on any SR20DET? You are that ignorant on SR20s yet you have the nerve to come in here talking to me like you're some sorta of expert? It's basic and common knowledge that the S14 has a T28 and VVT. You're the one who is stupid for not knowing. Did you get all your knowledge of SR20s from Fast and the Furious? Must have. Since you don't know much about them.

[BoyWonder]

I only know what SeVa-S13 tells me.. so if not, blame him. If so, thank me for stealing his information He knows more about it than I do.

[DanielIser]

I have not pulled apart the bottom end but yes I have laid out the top ends of both motors. And the Blacktop cam gears are slightly bigger than the Redtops.

[240SXer]

Well, i'm glad you sceintifically observed that one appeared larger than the other.

"The redtop is a little more built toward upgrades than the blacktop. I orignally ordered the blactop and was shipped the wrong motor, and now I am kinda glad that happened because I plan on doing major upgrades in the near future. Basically the redtop is more stable with the upgrades or something like that. Other than that there is not many differences"

Please explain to my how the Redtop is geared more toward upgrades. I have a blacktop so i'm just curious.

[creophus]

No you guys. s14 and s15 comes with t25's and s13's are t28. I can't believe how funny the replies are.

Edit: Is it true about VVT only on the intake side? Good info boywonder.

Pretty much 240SXer summed it up.

You're joking about the size of the turbo's right? And yeah, the VTC (Variable Timing Control) is only on one side. I think it's the intake side. I decided on the S14 motor btw and so far I love it!

P.S. Did I mention that I have Cruise Control on my SR powered S14??

[karay240]

I believe the comment about the red top being more suited for modification than the black top is regarding the straighter (and positioned higher) port design on the S13 motor (in both black or red top) in comparison to the S14 motor (black top). The implementation of the VVT (on the S14 & 15) caused the ports to be lower than that of the previous model (S13).

This higher & straighter port design allows for more high end power, but since it lacks the VVT, has less lowend torque. To compensate, the engineers at Nissan put a bigger turbo on it.

For bolt-on applications, the S14 & 15 motors will respond better to mods. However, if you decide to push the envelope even further, and build up the internals, the S13 motor will ultimately have more top end.

I'm guessing he was comparing the S13 & S14 motors, not the two different S13 motors.

Sorry if this post seemed a little redundant, but I didn't want to get misunderstood.

[240SXer]

I belive we are comparing S13 black vs. S13 redtop. Maybe people shouldnt just say Blacktop, because people don't know which motor they're reffering to. Let's say the specific motor, ex. S13 blacktop vs. S13 Redtop.

[nismostate]

You're joking about the size of the turbo's right? And yeah, the VTC (Variable Timing Control) is only on one side. I think it's the intake side. I decided on the S14 motor btw and so far I love it!

P.S. Did I mention that I have Cruise Control on my SR powered S14??

Yea, I was kidding. I hate how people give out informations when they really don't know it themselves. Then false information confuses everyone and that's how rumors begin. If your going to reply with something at least say that your not 100% sure at the end of the post. Otherwise don't say it at all and make your self look stupid. Awesome s14!! Im too broke:( gotta get a s13 redtop. cruise control??:ylsuper hope i can get that running too!! I want everything working right like a stock 180sx:pface

[sci0n]

Well, now that I've read this thing from start to finish, I've learned about nothing. Think of how, zeroskills feels.

This is what I got out of it:

S14 Blacktop has VVT and a slightly larger turbo. It is suitable for basic mods, but any major internal work go with the s13 motor.

S13 Red vs S13 Black, well I can't really deduce which is better since everyone contradicts each other every freaking post...

haha, maybe one day you guys will read this and laugh...

-sci0n-

[SloMoe]

Okay Mr. Nissan_fanatiC. My car = nothing put performance mods. Your car = nothing but rice mods. I haven't spent 1 dime on anything but somthing to make my car faster or more reliable. Can you say the same? You can't compare dude, you're 20x the ricer that I am. Coming up with pointless stuff itsnt going to change that. The Vtech is a joke. You're the only one that seems to think it's some amazing thing that anyone uses Vtech for anything but hondas. Honda made VVT popular (even though it was around before honda), when people think about VVT they think Vtech/honda. Get over it. Check my car out:

http://www.racingonthestreet.c....html

Why are you being a hater dude, you're the one who started talking mess first. Let's not forgot that.

VVT is totally different than Honda's VTEC. VVT (Variable Valve Timing) alters the amount of cam advance/retard, whereas VTEC alters valve lift and does nothing to alter timing. The new i-VTEC seen in the new K series motors does both (Cam timing and lift)