Some people really shouldn't write about cars...

[MinisterofDOOM]

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/01/ ... -stingray/

Unfortunately, the worst one is right next to it. There, you’ll find a small lever with a “P” on it that activates the electronic parking brake. That’s correct, the seventh generation Corvette doesn’t have a handbrake.

This is my favorite terrible article in a while. So fail.

My favorite-favorite-FAVORITE part:

but their gain is the loss of competitive drifters, would-be stuntmen and drivers who just want to get a little crazy in an empty parking lot

Dude...if you need an e-brake to get sideways with 450 rear-wheel torque, you are NOT a competitive driver, stuntman, or anyone who cares about getting a little crazy in a parking lot. Or anyone who would buy a Corvette. Or anyone who has ever driven a car.

BTW, I LOVE my electronic e-brake. It's out of the way, releases itself and saves me effort, looks nicer, and automatically adjusts to compensate for pad wear and cable stretch. It's also intelligent and WON'T lock up the rears while in motion (it functions as a genuine emergency brake when needed).

[BusyBadger]

BTW, I LOVE my electronic e-brake. It's out of the way, releases itself and saves me effort, looks nicer, and automatically adjusts to compensate for pad wear and cable stretch. It's also intelligent and WON'T lock up the rears while in motion (it functions as a genuine emergency brake when needed).

I don't ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever want to be made dependent on THE CAR reacting correctly. That goes for transmissions, that goes for traction control, that goes for ABS, that goes for nonlinear electronic throttles, that goes for everything. I will tell the car what to do. It will do it. This is the order of things.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Not even remotely the same thing. I'm not sure where you're drawing the connection.

[Dattebayo]

An electric parking brake IS EXACTLY THE SAME as an electric throttle.

We need a shovel icon right about now.

[BusyBadger]

Not even remotely the same thing. The e-brake still does what it's told, when it's told. It's just a different way of achieving the end result.

I suppose it is...unless you tell* it it to lock up the rear brakes while car is in motion.

And good luck using that button as an "emergency brake" It would be far easier to modulate control on a conventional lever style parking brake in an emergency situation, not to mention far easier to find.

While I quoted larger portions of your two posts, just consider these two conflicting statements...

*

I will tell the car what to do. It will do it. This is the order of things.

...and automatically adjust...

And then there's this...

I don't even trust ABS. Anything beyond that is PURE EVIL.

For some reason the board keeps removing "ABS" from after the word "trust" from your quote in the preview, here's the source thread. Given how many cars have ABS compared to a push button parking brake (hereafter called PB2) I'd consider the pb2 further down the road to evil than ABS, especially considering how you use both the terms automatic and intelligent in reference to the pb2 (note, I'm not saying that ABS isn't either of those things as well).

I just find it curious that when a piece of modern technology is added to a new car it's an affront to your automotive taste(s)...

It's one of the purest sports cars one can buy, free of most electronannies (ABS was introduced a few years ago, sadly)...

...but when it's on your current vehicle of choice, as in the case of the pb2 it's ok?

[MinisterofDOOM]

Electronic throttle is only bad if it's not 1:1. Problem is most aren't.

And it's NOT the same. How on earth is it the same? It's not the same. NOT THE SAME.

Nonlinear throttle, ABS, TCS, etc. all take the driver's inputs, second-guess them, and then do what they want. They're also critical top-level operations.

Electronic park brake achieves the SAME THING as a mechanical lever, but is smaller and out of the way. My electronic park brake still has a cable actuating the rear disks, just like most do. It's EXACTLY THE SAME RESULT as a lever, but with less wasted console or footwell space. It doesn't ever do anything on it's own. It doesn't react. It doesn't think. It actuates when you pull the switch. It releases when you put the car in gear. That's it.

IT IS NOT THE SAME.

I suppose it is...unless you tell* it it to lock up the rear brakes while car is in motion.

Why the @#$% would I do that? Emergency brake is for slowing the car down, not ricer douchetard powerslides. THAT was my point. E-brakes aren't for getting sideways, they're for STOPPING THE CAR. And the electronic version does that perfectly.

I just find it curious that when a piece of modern technology is added to a new car it's an affront to your automotive taste(s)...

It's one of the purest sports cars one can buy, free of most electronannies (ABS was introduced a few years ago, sadly)...

...but when it's on your current vehicle of choice, as in the case of the pb2 it's ok?

Tell me again how a park brake and ABS are the same thing?

This isn't a "nanny" device. It's merely a change in actuation of the SAME DAMN THING.

You don't hear me bitching about power windows or power seats or power headrests or power sunroofs or power trunk releases or power locks do you? Where's the mis-purposed out-of-context quotes to make THAT argument? You guys are grasping for straws that never existed.

I do find it weirdly flattering (if a little creepy) that you've got a backlibrary of me-quotes to fight me with.

[Dattebayo]

How hard is this to understand? There's a cable and the two other things it's attached to on either side of it. It's manually operated.

Same thing? YUP. lol MoD

[skydragoness]

It's all fun and games until your parking brake module fails.
To be fair a lot of the ones my shop's replaced in the past couple of months have been due to low charge/dead battery situations on Jaguars.

[gwoods]

rut roh

[Jesda]

I think the problem is that NICO's amateur drifters actually use their emergency brakes in day to day dry-weather driving so they perceive it as a major loss of control.


I do find it handy to have an e-brake lever in very snowy understeer situations with front-wheel drive cars. Gives me a little bit of extra control when things go awry. Of course, I could just be more patient instead of trying to spin the rear around like an ape.

[WDRacing]

Does the electronic ebrake allow for up hill start modulation when driving a manual?

[float_6969]

I don't think it's that smart on the LS, like Mod said, it has no intelligence to it whatsoever. The button on the dash actuates a solenoid. Everything else is mechanical.

[BusyBadger]

I don't think it's that smart on the LS, like Mod said, it has no intelligence to it whatsoever. The button on the dash actuates a solenoid. Everything else is mechanical.

[Bubba1]

I don't think it's that smart on the LS, like Mod said, it has no intelligence to it whatsoever. The button on the dash actuates a solenoid. Everything else is mechanical.

FWIW, I believe the Leaf is equipped with the same type of parking brake. As far as having one on a Corvette, I agree with MoD, with all that power on tap and RWD, if you want to induce the rear to slide, just tap the gas. It's especially easy in the rain.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I don't see why it wouldn't work for hill starts in a manual. Even though it releases when shifted from park for convenience, when applied while in any gear, it'll stay applied until manually released. I use it all the time when waiting in lines at drive-throughs while in Neutral. Of course manual trans does't have Park so that's kinda a non-issue.

I don't think it's that smart on the LS, like Mod said, it has no intelligence to it whatsoever. The button on the dash actuates a solenoid. Everything else is mechanical.

Right. The switch actuates a screw-drive system which tightens the cable.

It's not intelligent, but it does automatically compensate for cable slack and pad/rotor wear and keeps a memory so it can warn you if it fails to actuate correctly (meaning it knows if it's applied tightly).

And when moving it pulses and engages gradually rather than locking up, to enable emergency use.

Those two things are as "intelligent" as it gets. Aside from that it's just like a normal park brake.

[Jesda]

Does the electronic ebrake allow for up hill start modulation when driving a manual?

That's a damn good question.

[BusyBadger]

BTW, I LOVE my electronic e-brake. It's out of the way, releases itself and saves me effort, looks nicer, and automatically adjusts to compensate for pad wear and cable stretch. It's also intelligent and WON'T lock up the rears while in motion (it functions as a genuine emergency brake when needed).

It's not intelligent, but it does automatically compensate for cable slack and pad/rotor wear and keeps a memory so it can warn you if it fails to actuate correctly (meaning it knows if it's applied tightly).

[skydragoness]

[MinisterofDOOM]

BTW, I LOVE my electronic e-brake. It's out of the way, releases itself and saves me effort, looks nicer, and automatically adjusts to compensate for pad wear and cable stretch. It's also intelligent and WON'T lock up the rears while in motion (it functions as a genuine emergency brake when needed).

It's not intelligent, but it does automatically compensate for cable slack and pad/rotor wear and keeps a memory so it can warn you if it fails to actuate correctly (meaning it knows if it's applied tightly).

Eh, poor choice of wording on one or the other. In the first place I probably should have said "It's also not binary".

[WDRacing]

Does the electronic ebrake allow for up hill start modulation when driving a manual?

That's a damn good question.

Thanks Jesda!

I have found myself in that situation many times. There are a couple intersections where I grew up that involve a steep incline, a stop sign and a merge onto a busy road. It never fails that there is a car behind you either.

[Bubba1]

Thanks Jesda!

I have found myself in that situation many times. There are a couple intersections where I grew up that involve a steep incline, a stop sign and a merge onto a busy road. It never fails that there is a car behind you either.

Wait a minute. Does the Electronic parking brake prevent you from using the clutch/gas pedals? I recognize that a lot of inexperienced folks can get spooked by rolling backwards when starting on an incline. But if you are able to operate the clutch/gas pedals while the electronic parking brake is engaged, I don't see how how starting on a steep incline with a manual transmission is any more challenging with an electronic quick release parking brake than any other type.

[WDRacing]

So you're telling me there is no difference between a hand brake that you can manually modulate the pressure and an on/off switch? That's silly.

No the button doesn't prevent someone from using the clutch and gas pedal but if you don't see how using a hand brake is different then a button

[MinisterofDOOM]

It's actually not a button. It's still a lever. It's just a smaller lever. Pull to engage, push to release. It's also still on the center console, so it's still within easy reach of the gearshift.

[WDRacing]

I'm talking about the ability to modulate the release pressure, not the location though.

[Bubba1]

So you're telling me there is no difference between a hand brake that you can manually modulate the pressure and an on/off switch? That's silly.

No the button doesn't prevent someone from using the clutch and gas pedal but if you don't see how using a hand brake is different then a button

YEs we're talking about release pressure. I guess we were brought up in different eras. Learning to drive on typical mass produced '60's American car, having the ability to modulate the release of a parking brake did not make any difference at all for preventing the rollback when starting up an incline in a manual car. That's because most parking brakes were engaged with a small pedal (located to the left of the clutch) , and it released 100% all at once by pulling a simple 2 position lever. (like a hood release)

So if you felt you must start off up an incline with the parking brake on to prevent rollback in an old car, you simply let out the clutch , with a little gas until you felt it work against the parking brake, then "pop" goes the lever and you're on your way. No roll back. That's why most of us old farts don't see any necessity for the ability to modulate the parking brake release by hand if you use it for that application.

[WDRacing]

My old Sierra had the foot E brake, definitely not as manageable as a proper hand brake where hill starts are concerned. It's an added measure of control imho.

[Bubba1]

My old Sierra had the foot E brake, definitely not as manageable as a proper hand brake where hill starts are concerned. It's an added measure of control imho.

Each to his own, I guess.

[WDRacing]

Can't teach an old dog new tricks aye

[Bubba1]

Can't teach an old dog new tricks aye

LOL, that too.

[MinisterofDOOM]

WD makes a good point. I tend to agree with Bubba, though: the electronic park brake isn't the first version that's not easily usable for hill-starts. And I'd say the "if you have that much power" thing applies to hills, too. You're not going to stall your Corvette with a hill start.

It's worth noting that my OP was NOT arguing the validity of the electronic e-brake, but merely pointing out that drifters and professional race drivers don't need e-brakes because they know how to drive.

I've only ever had one car with a hand-brake, and it was FWD. So, as Jesda noted, it was useful in the snow. All my other cars (including my gutless manual RWD Ranger) had foot-brakes or electronic ones. I've always preferred the latter because they keep the console clear. So maybe that's why I'm not as bothered by the electronic version's shortcomings.