Some people really shouldn't write about cars...

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Totally didn't read the entire thread, but I absolutely do not support electronic parking brake at all. Just seems like an unnecessary amount of added complexity to make something worse.

[Razi]

You can do things via the handbrake that you can't with just hitting the gas pedal though. And pro drifters DO use handbrakes. They either use it to initiate in a tight spot or to make corrections.
I don't think that person knows though, that pro drifters have hydraulic handbrakes installed so whatever the stock car had is irrelevant.

[szh]

I guess it depends on who the parking brake is intended for.

My wife's Acura TSX has a manual hand-brake lever and she never, NEVER pulls it up enough to prevent the car from rolling if were on a hill, etc. Yet, she always thinks that she has properly prevented the car from going anywhere.

So, an electronic parking brake would be something I would love her car to have!

On my M, she never pushes the foot-brake pedal hard enough either after parking ...

Of course, my M's foot-brake does not allow using it to lock up wheels either - not enough control or ability to be modulate it in any way.

For my own cars? I guess I would not care (i.e., if I had either a foot brake or an electronic parking brake) if the car were an automatic with enough power (like my M). On my old Z, I liked having the lever, so that it could be used easily for moving off uphill from a light situations.

Z

[dre1507]

I drove a manual VW yesterday at work with that electronic parking brake foolishness, and when I was stopped on an incline, the car wouldn't move the first time I tried to move off. After I depressed the clutch again and came off the gas, the car started rolling backwards. That's when I figured the parking brake was deactivated. Only then was the car able to move forward. I'm not too fond of it.

[WDRacing]

WD makes a good point. I tend to agree with Bubba, though: the electronic park brake isn't the first version that's not easily usable for hill-starts. And I'd say the "if you have that much power" thing applies to hills, too. You're not going to stall your Corvette with a hill start.

In the town I grew up in, there is a hill that has a stop sign at the end of it. It forms a 4 way intersection with another busy road. The busy road has no stop sign. At this intersection it is common to be behind a couple of cars and or in front of multiple cars. This requires the steady movement up the hill in a slow fashion. If you have a manual, the hand brake is the absolute best option here. I'm not concerned with stalling. I'm concerned with the start and stop and roll back involved.

The old fashion foot brake with the release lever below the steering wheel removes you from the optimum driving position and has you leaning over searching for the lever. Perhaps this is ok for Joel, but what about every other driver? It's my opinion that there are far more novice drivers around than there are proficient ones.

The hand brake is better in every form than the foot brake and electronic brake.

[Bubba1]

[
The old fashion foot brake with the release lever below the steering wheel removes you from the optimum driving position and has you leaning over searching for the lever. Perhaps this is ok for Joel, but what about every other driver? It's my opinion that there are far more novice drivers around than there are proficient ones.

The hand brake is better in every form than the foot brake and electronic brake.

Well, more like ok for older folks like Joel who, for many years, did uphill standing starts with those old fashioned foot operated parking brakes, without thinking twice about it. And that's my point. It'll seem more difficult to those who didn't use them full time. You could make the same argument about synchromesh manual transmissions. Those of us that regularly drove non-synchro manual transmission cars in our youth are comfortable with double clutch downshifts to the point that it's second nature. But for younger folks raised on modern synchromesh transmissions, which eliminated the need for double clutch downshifts altogether, they are going to consider double clutch downshifts a pain in the rear.

[dre1507]

I've been in slow-moving traffic situations on hills before and not once have I used the handbrake. The car directly behind me usually gets the message the first time I roll back. However, since I knew my clutch, I don't think I've ever rolled back enough to scare the car behind me, as I was always very fast at engaging the clutch.

[Bubba1]

I've been in slow-moving traffic situations on hills before and not once have I used the handbrake. The car directly behind me usually gets the message the first time I roll back. However, since I knew my clutch, I don't think I've ever rolled back enough to scare the car behind me, as I was always very fast at engaging the clutch.

There are times you need that parking brake. For example I grew up in a densely populated area with some steep hills, and that parking brake would come in very handy if you had parallel parked on a steep incline on a crowded street that did not have a curb to rest your RF tire against. Whether it was a foot operated or hand operated parking brake made no difference to me. That's because the mechanics involved with departure were the same.

[dre1507]

Yea, definitely for parking situations.

I was saying that in non-parking situations, I've never had to use the parking brake at all.

[WDRacing]

Well, more like ok for older folks like Joel who, for many years, did uphill standing starts with those old fashioned foot operated parking brakes, without thinking twice about it. And that's my point.

I understand that it works Joel, what I'm saying is, it doesn't work as well. That's all brah My point is, that the hand brake works better. You can keep repeating that the foot brake works if you want to. I understand how they operate bud, my first 3 vehicles had foot brakes. When I went through drivers ed back in 91, they taught us how to use the foot brake and the hand brake for hill starts. Using the foot brake on a hill start was actually on my drivers test. I concede that they work

My original post was meant to question how the push button types affect the hill starts because I've never driven a vehicle with one. Do they pop right off, is it gradual etc. Baring in mind that I'm asking from a position that believes the hand brake works better than any other available option. So, comparing the hand brake to the button, how does it work. To me, you lose a margin of control that you would otherwise have with a hand brake.

I've been in slow-moving traffic situations on hills before and not once have I used the handbrake. The car directly behind me usually gets the message the first time I roll back. However, since I knew my clutch, I don't think I've ever rolled back enough to scare the car behind me, as I was always very fast at engaging the clutch.

You would never roll back at all if you engaged the hand brake. I have driven many manuals and I don't use the brake all the time either. That doesn't mean it's not nice to have the option. When I'm on a steep incline, I use the brake.

I'm not saying your personal method of driving is incorrect btw, just making a point.

[dre1507]

No, I get what you're saying. I might start trying to use the handbrake on the hills, though.

[WDRacing]

I remember when I switched from my Celica GTS to an older fox body 5.0. The first time I came to one particular intersection where I would normally stop, feather the clutch and roll out without using the brake. When I hit that intersection in the 5.0 I smoked the tires like I was in a water box. Just a little difference in low end torque

[Bubba1]

I understand your point, It's our perspectives that differ. which I think is a byproduct of our age difference. What you consider better, (the ability to modulate a parking brake by hand), I view as unnecessary.

As far as how quickly the electronic parking brake releases, based on the newer Audi's I've driven which already have them, it's immediate. Just like the old foot parking brakes.

[flohtingPoint]

It's worth noting that my OP was NOT arguing the validity of the electronic e-brake, but merely pointing out that drifters and professional race drivers don't need e-brakes because they know how to drive.

I'm not going to defend drifters because I think they're hacks (e-brake or not), but folks in the WRC have used e-brakes for decades.