Soldier in Iraq Loses Home Over $800 Debt

[PoorManQ45]

I do like that the banks and lending institutions are really hurting right now.

They're not really, but that's an idiotic thing to say. Only a blind libbie sheep who regurgitates the blather of the anti-Capitalist left would see that as a good thing.

You know Greg, you're right. What was I thinking. Numerous large banks were taken over or closed down because they were doing great!

[AZhitman]

Past-tense. You kids, always overlooking the details.

Econ 101. The ones that remain are doing well. The ones that failed? Could have been because of s***bag homeowners like the ones in that article.

How about the thousands upon thousands of innocent bank employees who are losing their homes to foreclosure because their bank went under? Where's the sympathy for them?

[HashiriyaS14]

You know Greg, you're right. What was I thinking. Numerous large banks were taken over or closed down because they were doing great!

People should fulfill their responsibilities and obligations.

SOME banks were indeed rotten eggs, or at least some employees at some banks. Some of them have even gone unpunished, but this does NOT remove the responsibility from a homeowner to make good on their promise to pay their lender. That's not how America works, you don't just jump on a bandwagon wave and shirk an obligation because it may be politically palatable.

[PoorManQ45]

Ah, the mind of the well to do Americans is always interesting.

You are looking at everything from your vantage point as a person that makes more then enough money.

You are one of the fortunate ones that has been in your field for quite a few years.

I don't know if you haven't looked outside of your bubble lately, but things are going down hill very quickly.

What do you propose we do with the 600k+ people that will be homeless once foreclosure is done?

What is humorous is that when the bank forecloses on a house they will not sell it for the Loan amount, they will sell it for close to or less then the current market value of the house. What you're saying is that it is acceptable for the Bank to make the decision to eat the disparity in the loan to value difference, but not the homeowner? What sense does that make?

If you allow the homeowner to negotiate to a lower price everyone wins. The bank will end up getting more then they would have sold the house for, and you don't end up with another homeless family.

[HashiriyaS14]

What is humorous is that when the bank forecloses on a house they will not sell it for the Loan amount, they will sell it for close to or less then the current market value of the house. What you're saying is that it is acceptable for the Bank to make the decision to eat the disparity in the loan to value difference, but not the homeowner? What sense does that make?

If you allow the homeowner to negotiate to a lower price everyone wins. The bank will end up getting more then they would have sold the house for, and you don't end up with another homeless family.

LOL, I'm 28 dude, it's not like I'm some established 50 year old executive or something.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that the homeowner shouldn't be allowed to negotiate a modification privately with their lender, this happens in commercial real estate all the time. If both parties can reach a mutually beneficial compromise, then more power to them.

I was just reacting to your leftist "STICK IT TO THE BANKS" mentality that seemed to imply that it was good that the banks were getting hit, when it is in fact NOT good for any of us, because we are all financially intertwined. We don't want a second credit crisis.


EDIT: Don't make me break out the search hammer. 3 or 4 years ago you implied in another thread that you didn't know what a mortgage was, you thought the term "mortgage" only applied to a SECOND mortgage rather than the primary lien on an asset. I have a keen memory for idiocy. I do this shxt for a living, you don't want to get into an argument with me about real estate finance and recourse.

EDIT AGAIN: Here it is, 4/19/2005.

Hmm, I've never heard of a mortgage loan.

Normally a loan is taken out, but I've never heard it called a mortgage loan.

[PoorManQ45]

I was just reacting to your leftist "STICK IT TO THE BANKS" mentality that seemed to imply that it was good that the banks were getting hit, when it is in fact NOT good for any of us, because we are all financially intertwined. We don't want a second credit crisis.

I agree. I may have seemed a little harsh towards the banking institutions. Albeit I don't agree with publicly traded lending institutions... Privatized Credit Unions are the way to go.

I am a little confused by your statement of "we don't want a second credit crisis." Please provide a little more detail as to how this would occur based on what is being discussed.

EDIT: Don't make me break out the search hammer. 3 or 4 years ago you implied in another thread that you didn't know what a mortgage was, you thought the term "mortgage" only applied to a SECOND mortgage rather than the primary lien on an asset. I have a keen memory for idiocy. I do this shxt for a living, you don't want to get into an argument with me about real estate finance and recourse.

EDIT AGAIN: Here it is, 4/19/2005.

Hmm, I've never heard of a mortgage loan.

Normally a loan is taken out, but I've never heard it called a mortgage loan.

I remember that thread. IIRC Eikon was dishing out a ridiculous amount of information.

I could do the same to you by quoting some of your ignorant electronic statements. It is better to be ignorant then stupid though

[HashiriyaS14]

I remember that thread. IIRC Eikon was dishing out a ridiculous amount of information.

I could do the same to you by quoting some of your ignorant electronic statements. It is better to be ignorant then stupid though

I CALL!

I'd love to see whatever "ignorant electronic statements" you're talking about, not that I claim to have never said anything uninformed. Search away, I'll wait.


RE: Credit Crisis

If mass numbers of people were to stop paying and the banks were forced into a cash crunch via lack of incoming loan payments, they would surely be less willing to lend, perhaps leading to a second credit crunch. No cash in, no cash out (even if it's not quite that simple).

[AZhitman]

Ah, the mind of the well to do Americans is always interesting.

You are looking at everything from your vantage point as a person that makes more then enough money.

You know d!ck about my finances.

I'd appreciate you not making assumptions, because I can guarantee you're wrong.

[AZhitman]

I don't agree with publicly traded lending institutions... Privatized Credit Unions are the way to go.

You don't have to look far, Hash. Here's one.

B, if you knew 1/10th of what you profess to know, you'd be impressive.

[PoorManQ45]

Ah, the mind of the well to do Americans is always interesting.

You are looking at everything from your vantage point as a person that makes more then enough money.

You know d!ck about my finances.

I'd appreciate you not making assumptions, because I can guarantee you're wrong.

One can only assume. You fly across the country multiple times a year to go to car events. You own and work on multiple project vehicles. The list goes on. You post quite a bit about yourself.

I don't agree with publicly traded lending institutions... Privatized Credit Unions are the way to go.

You don't have to look far, Hash. Here's one.

B, if you knew 1/10th of what you profess to know, you'd be impressive.

We can turn this into a Federal Reserve discussion if you would like Greg. Banks are indeed evil. I am still a little humored that people will put their money into an account that pays 0.0125% at a bank rather then 1~2% at a credit union.

[AZhitman]

Yep. I also don't smoke, don't drink, don't go to movies, don't buy junk food, don't spend money on designer clothes, and I lived well below my means for 20 years. I also save and invest wisely, do side work on occasion, stay out of debt, barter for things I don't budget for, shop frugally, and I pay cash for my cars...

So, I'm gonna tell you what I'd tell any other wet-behind-the-ears kid who sticks his nose where it doesn't belong: STFU.
_____

"Banks are evil"? Because they don't give you the interest rate YOU feel you're entitled to? Did you spend an extra day in the birth canal or something?

Any idea what the interest rates were BEFORE all this bailout and foreclosure nonsense? Yeah. Much higher.

Now, for the record, I'm a CU member. However, nothing you said implies "evil". That's just nonsense. When you get ready to buy a home, let me know if you get your mortgage through a credit union (unlikely).

[PoorManQ45]

I understand that proper self control and money management goes a long way greg.

I have been to the CU already. 20% down payment is suggested. I was surprised. With only 4 years of credit history, two credit cards, and one vehicle loan I have enough history and a good enough score to be approved for $100k($120k with 20%). This also took in to consideration my income at the time.

[Jesda]

Some people are willing to sacrifice some of their freedoms in exchange for mandated serenity. f*** 'em. Its their right to be retards.

This retard has lived in both HOA and non-HOA communities.

Why would you subject yourself to a contract where the consequence is LOSING YOUR PROPERTY? The consequence is NOT proportional to the violation.

I agree with Hash. The penalty should be some form of collection or even wage garnishment, but not losing your home over some s***. HOAs are powerful because the assumed consequence of being without them is living next door to some Cuban immigrant who paints his house bright pink and hangs roast pigs in the front yard.

It doesnt have to be one extreme or the other. There has to be a REASONABLE contract that doesn't involve foreclosure as a consequence of hanging a gigantic US flag on the roof or putting a flamingo on the yard. Black and white thinking seldom reflects reason. HOAs have too much power, and people are too willing to give it to them.

[Jesda]

Ah, the mind of the well to do Americans is always interesting.
You are looking at everything from your vantage point as a person that makes more then enough money.
You are one of the fortunate ones that has been in your field for quite a few years.
I don't know if you haven't looked outside of your bubble lately, but things are going down hill very quickly.
What do you propose we do with the 600k+ people that will be homeless once foreclosure is done?

Its similar to asking what we would do if GM and Chrysler had to cease operations. Let them rot.

Recessions are the market's way of correcting excesses and poor decisions. As a guy who had some pretty bad credit just a few years ago, trust me, I know about the consequences of poor decisions. I'm more conservative with my finances now.

Let the correction take its course.

[Jesda]

That's not how America works, you don't just jump on a bandwagon wave and shirk an obligation because it may be politically palatable.

Its exactly how it works, and its horrifying. Everyone feels entitled to whatever they want. There's a poison in this economy, and all the stimulus in the world won't fix it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/busin ... ?src=busln

[MinisterofDOOM]

The more rules we force on each other, the less human we become.

I certainly agree there are jerks out there whose inconsiderate nature is curbed by HOA agreements. But two crappy situations don't cancel each other out. They just stack.

I know how to be a decent human being. Making the fact that other people don't (or, in reality, simply might not) MY problem is NOT a solution.

HOAs might be beneficial sometimes, but at best they're a necessary evil. Contracts and "rules" are never an ideal solution to the problems of individuals.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

living next door to some Cuban immigrant who paints his house bright pink and hangs roast pigs in the front yard.

Wait, wait, people are trying to AVOID that?

[HashiriyaS14]

Why would you subject yourself to a contract where the consequence is LOSING YOUR PROPERTY? The consequence is NOT proportional to the violation.

I agree with Hash. The penalty should be some form of collection or even wage garnishment, but not losing your home over some bullsh*t. HOAs are powerful because the assumed consequence of being without them is living next door to some Cuban immigrant who paints his house bright pink and hangs roast pigs in the front yard.

It doesnt have to be one extreme or the other. There has to be a REASONABLE contract that doesn't involve foreclosure as a consequence of hanging a gigantic US flag on the roof or putting a flamingo on the yard. Black and white thinking seldom reflects reason. HOAs have too much power, and people are too willing to give it to them.

At any rate, this person's HOA was an aberration. I read my HOA contract and the worst they can do is fine me, and then I could not pay it and it'd go to collections and have a credit report ding. They can't take my house. The vast majority of HOA contracts do not allow for seizure of the asset for the simple reason that mortgage lenders would never allow it.

In fact, I'm *convinced* that the mortgage lender in question is going to win out over the HOA in court, and the HOA will be liable to the lender (and ultimately, to the homeowner) for the value of the short (i.e. collateral value - $3500 sale price).

This was NOT the norm, the vast majority of HOA's are relatively benign organizations with minimal powers overseen by fairly reasonable people (i.e. the member homeowners) that enforce simple, practical rules with sane consequences. They are not evil by design, but as with anything else, if you give them outsize powers, some yutz will doubtless abuse said powers.


(way to make three posts in a row, by the way!)



EDIT: HOA's are almost always formed BY the homeowners, not by a developer or some other random party. In established neighborhoods, homeowners will often band together and form an HOA that enforces points that are already agreed upon by everyone living there. Then, when someone new moves in, they read the contract and only buy the home if they similarly agree with the guidelines. Obviously, like any other sort of transaction, it's caveat emptor, you need to do your due diligence before acquiring any real asset, and reading HOA docs (and similar commercial RE documents) are part of this.

[Jesda]

(way to make three posts in a row, by the way!)

This new forum software lacks a "+reply" button to accumulate quotes into a single post. As Bill OReilly would say, "f*** thing sucks!" Until the feature is added:


As for HOAs, the cases where they abuse power are cases where excessive power was granted to begin with. Like the war vet who was threatened with foreclosure for putting too large of a flag in his yard, or idiotic rules restricting not just the condition, but the TYPE of vehicle (no SUVs, for example). These more abusive HOAs are often drafted by developers.

Again: WHY MOVE INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE FORECLOSURE IS A FINAL CONSEQUENCE OF VIOLATING THE RULES? Its a dangerous contract that makes the homeowner vulnerable to the whims of a few pricks. You hear about it because... it DOES happen. Give a group of jerks too much power, and they'll abuse it. What's the point of living in a society that values private property when people are so willing to concede ownership?

A deal's a deal, but if its a s*** deal, DON'T SIGN. You can negotiate!

[Dattebayo]

(way to make three posts in a row, by the way!)

This new forum software lacks a "+reply" button to accumulate quotes into a single post. As Bill OReilly would say, "f*** thing sucks!" Until the feature is added:

Um, no it doesn't. It's below the text screen next to each individual post in the scroll down window.

[Jesda]

Scroll down bar? The only scroll bar I have is on the far right of my browser window just to the right of the advertisements. Help me out -- I could really use this feature.

[Dattebayo]

Scroll down bar? The only scroll bar I have is on the far right of my browser window just to the right of the advertisements. Help me out -- I could really use this feature.

Scroll-down WINDOW.
Hit "post reply" and you'll see what I mean.

[Jesda]

Scroll down bar? The only scroll bar I have is on the far right of my browser window just to the right of the advertisements. Help me out -- I could really use this feature.

Hit "post reply" and you'll see what I mean.

AHHH! There it is! Thank you! Its different from VB where you select the post first then hit reply. It seems like an illogical way of doing it. I may as well read the thread by first hitting reply.

[Dattebayo]

AHHH! There it is! Thank you! Its different from VB where you select the post first then hit reply.

You can do that too. That's what the "quote" button in the corner of each post is for on the regular thread page.

[Jesda]

AHHH! There it is! Thank you! Its different from VB where you select the post first then hit reply.

You can do that too. That's what the "quote" button in the corner of each post is for on the regular thread page.

No, that initiates a quoted reply to one post, and then you have to go back through the thread to highlight and select other posts. Usually, you want to read through a thread in its entirety, especially a debate/discussion, and select posts to reply to before typing it out.

The vB way of doing it is better. Its a shame vB is bloated, expensive, and insecure.

[Dattebayo]

We didn't have that before either, then. Because *this* is pretty much the same as before.

[Jesda]

We didn't have that before either, then. Because *this* is pretty much the same as before.

The previous software was Zeroforum. Before that, it was VB (you've been around, you remember). VB could do it but ZF couldnt.

[Dattebayo]

Its hard to remember the 240 days. I tried to put them out of my mind!

[Jesda]

I also remember when some d!ck hackers would occasionally replace the NICO home page with threats written in arabic. I called Wes one afternoon like "OMG wallh4x!" and he called Fred.

Saab Central uses VB and had to disable search because of how heavy a load it put on the server.

[HashiriyaS14]

Again: WHY MOVE INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE FORECLOSURE IS A FINAL CONSEQUENCE OF VIOLATING THE RULES? Its a dangerous contract that makes the homeowner vulnerable to the whims of a few pricks. You hear about it because... it DOES happen. Give a group of jerks too much power, and they'll abuse it. What's the point of living in a society that values private property when people are so willing to concede ownership?

A deal's a deal, but if its a s*** deal, DON'T SIGN. You can negotiate!

Dog Gif Saved!

Anyway, I completely agree with you. I'd certainly never move in anywhere with such draconian consequences and I don't think most people would either. These extreme cases do happen, but it's a tiny tiny minority. Of course, when they do happen everyone hears about it anyway because it's so outrageous.

I read my HOA docs exhaustively before I moved in, as I'd home most reasonable people would.