Soldier in Iraq Loses Home Over $800 Debt

[Uncle Dat]

Hopefully this isn't a repost but too busy to log on as often as before. I hate HOA with a passion. Thanks goodness I'm not in TX because this is ridiculous. Soulless bastards.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/05 ... -foreclose

[Red coupe]

Sad story, and I feel for the guy...
But uh... You can't really blame any one else for this guys wife not paying her bills, and refusing to read late notices.

I appreciate all the work a soldier does... But that still does not mean he can just stop paying his bills, ignore collection notices then blame someone else when the people he owes money follow standard procedures.

[93coupe]

Stopped opening mail because she was scared to get mail saying her hubby was dead? That sort of mail comes marked the same way as official military death mail?

[Dattebayo]

Well, soldiers are not known for marrying intelligent women... but damn. His wife is one big fu*king idiot.

I say he gets the house back and gets a divorce. Then get his kids checked for disabilities.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Sad story, and I feel for the guy...
But uh... You can't really blame any one else for this guys wife not paying her bills, and refusing to read late notices.

I appreciate all the work a soldier does... But that still does not mean he can just stop paying his bills, ignore collection notices then blame someone else when the people he owes money follow standard procedures.

As detailed in the article, they didn't follow standard procedures.

There are a bevy of laws that are supposed to protect servicemembers from losing their homes or jobs while they're on active duty, including the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act (SCRA). The homeowners' association's lawyer filed an affidavit wrongly claiming that neither of the Clauers was on active duty, says Barbara Hale, the couple's lawyer.

Granted, maybe there's some lawyer talk in there, but there are a s*** of laws designed to protect our servicemembers from such events.


There are a lot of failures in this chain of events. Where was the wives club? Chaplin? The HOA board member's souls?

[Jesda]

Check is in the mail. Looks like they have a good case.

There are a bevy of laws that are supposed to protect servicemembers from losing their homes or jobs while they're on active duty, including the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act (SCRA). The homeowners' association's lawyer filed an affidavit wrongly claiming that neither of the Clauers was on active duty, says Barbara Hale, the couple's lawyer. Hale is seeking to have the court reverse the foreclosure and declare it "null and void," she says.

[nissangirl74]

Do I feel sorry for the soldier? Yes. He had no knowledge or control over the situation. I think his wife needs a kick in the a** and a smack to the back of the head. I understand that there are certain stressers being the spouse of someone who is deployed. However, the spouse who is here at home has certain responsibilities that they are obligated to take care of. The man went to war expecting that his wife would take care of their home, their children, and the day to day operations of life. She should have stood up and took care of business. Her husband could have had a good homecoming instead of a homeowner's nightmare. She's the one at fault here. No doubt about it.

[4cefed]

A) I have an idea of how life can be difficult when one partner is away for an extended time. I have to deal with stuff like this and I'm only a couple states away. I couldn't imagine being on the other side of the globe and not being able to make a couple phone calls whenever I wanted. I rely on my wife to handle stuff. A lot of times stress of being apart and having to do everything else, things like this slip through the cracks, and my wife IS NOT depressed.

Maybe she's not on the ball, but I think you guys should back off her a bit.

2) HOAs should just be outlawed. Period.

D) Foreclosing on a house over a ridiculous amount like this is just not tactically advisable. You know how easy a PTSD related mental illness would be to defend in court for wiping out an entire office? Words on paper is of little use when someone is breaking your door down wanting your blood for the things you've done.

I'm just glad to see he's handling things so calmly and the "new owners" are letting them stay there for now.

[HashiriyaS14]

2) HOAs should just be outlawed. Period.

False.

My HOA maintains the pool/tennis courts, mows the tiny strip of lawn in front of my townhouse, shovels the snow off my streets long before the county ever gets to it, and keeps my neighbors from installing unsightly shxt all over their homes. In some cases (especially denser development like townhomes), HOA's are a very good thing. I pay like $80/mo, and it's totally worth it.

They shouldn't have foreclosure rights though, they should just be able to hit your credit report like any other bill. Only your Mortgage lender should have foreclosure rights. Generally, mortgage lenders demand that any other party with rights to seize the asset (i.e. tax authorities) be paid on the same bill as the mortgage, so they can ensure that no one is taking the asset that they hold as collateral.

This whole thing seems ridiculous, I imagine the mortgage lender is going to end up taking the HOA to court and winning.


Regardless, the wife is a dummy. Pay your f**king bills. Are you going to get a notice about your husband being injured/killed in an envelope from the HOA? Soldier has zero responsibility here, it was her watch on the home front.

[IBCoupe]

Let the HOA manage the common areas, but who cares what your neighbors do to their property?

[HashiriyaS14]

Let the HOA manage the common areas, but who cares what your neighbors do to their property?

Because when my neighbor's house is literally attached to mine, and we're 10 feet away from one another, I don't want them putting up a huge noisy wind-chime that I can hear in any area of my house, 24 hours a day. Stuff like that.

Aesthetically, I don't really care what they do. It's more noise.

[4cefed]

Here's an idea. Don't live 10 feet from another house. Then it won't matter what they do with THEIR house.

"Land of the free" my a**...

[skydragoness]

IMO, if you want to be able to do whatever the hell you want to your house/property then don't live in a neighborhood. Most HOA's aren't insane. When you're shopping for a house I'd imagine you can look around and ask (don't know, never bought a house, hehe).

But a HOA that can foreclose your home, and even use a lawyer write up false info is scary s***.
Yeah the wife was being crazy by not checking her mail, but it's more disconcerting to me that they had a lawyer falsify information on the husband not being on active duty.

[PoorManQ45]

a lot of HOAs do not allow ads on your car. sucks if you're in sales...

they require you grass to b in good condition. that's fine and dandy, but here in FL they require St Augustine. it is beautiful, but very susceptible to drought. So, you legally can not water your grass enough to keep it alive. The HOA still fines you and can foreclose if you refuse as they hold a lien...

[nissangirl74]

IMO, if you want to be able to do whatever the hell you want to your house/property then don't live in a neighborhood

This.

[IBCoupe]

a lot of HOAs do not allow ads on your car. sucks if you're in sales...

they require you grass to b in good condition. that's fine and dandy, but here in FL they require St Augustine. it is beautiful, but very susceptible to drought. So, you legally can not water your grass enough to keep it alive. The HOA still fines you and can foreclose if you refuse as they hold a lien...

Exactly. You haven't actually bought your house - you simply paid a lot of money to live by someone else's rules.

IMO, if you want to be able to do whatever the hell you want to your house/property then don't live in a neighborhood.

Then what's the point of owning property in the first place, if not to do whatever the hell you want with it?

[skydragoness]

Then what's the point of owning property in the first place, if not to do whatever the hell you want with it?

Because you're choosing to live in a neighborhood/development. There are some with HOA/or those signs "deed restricted" communities. It's not like you buy a house and "find out" all of a sudden. It's information known before the house is bought. What people do to their houses can actually bring down the value/prices of the houses in said neighborhood as there's an appearance that has to be kept up.
Like I said, some HOA's are insane, and some aren't. Depends on the community. My mom's HOA is almost non-existent, there's snow removal and some basic rules about keeping your house "tidy", excessive cars and noise rules--that's about it. It's called shopping around dude. If you don't like HOA's then get a house that's not part of a development. There's plenty.

[Solar_Runner]

Well, soldiers are not known for marrying intelligent women... but damn.

^ Stupidest thing I've seen on the net in days! Hoo Yah!

You only hear about the dumb ones Dattebayo, all the others just aren't news! Military spouces are typically very strong and intelligent. That's what it takes to raise a family and take care of a house when the Soilder/Marine/Sailor/Airman is deployed 3 - 15 months. You just don't see it in the news for the other 999 out of 1,000. Been there? Seen that? I have.

BTW: My house had a lien on it from the HOA when I bought it. The original owner did not pay the fees ONCE while they live in the house (then, $17.00 month).

USAF 1984 - 2005

[Jesda]

Some people are willing to sacrifice some of their freedoms in exchange for mandated serenity. f*** 'em. Its their right to be retards.

As for this HOA, they did -not- follow established rules and procedures. Despite the failure of the wife to take care of business, they did not follow the law.

[Jesda]

a lot of HOAs do not allow ads on your car. sucks if you're in sales...

they require you grass to b in good condition. that's fine and dandy, but here in FL they require St Augustine. it is beautiful, but very susceptible to drought. So, you legally can not water your grass enough to keep it alive. The HOA still fines you and can foreclose if you refuse as they hold a lien...

Exactly. You haven't actually bought your house - you simply paid a lot of money to live by someone else's rules.

IMO, if you want to be able to do whatever the hell you want to your house/property then don't live in a neighborhood.

Then what's the point of owning property in the first place, if not to do whatever the hell you want with it?

A deal's a deal. You sign, you accept.

People also don't realize that they can negotiate the terms of their contract before signing.

[Jesda]

Let the HOA manage the common areas, but who cares what your neighbors do to their property?

The issue isn't that there's a fee associated with neighborhood upkeep or a set of rules (since you agree to it). The issue is that if you don't pay the fee or if you don't comply fully, they can take your house.


THEY CAN TAKE YOUR HOUSE! HOW is that a reasonable response to a garden gnome?

[snwbrdr435]

How about these douches

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/business/01nopay.html

[IBCoupe]

Because you're choosing to live in a neighborhood/development.

Doesn't that cut both ways, though? Aren't you choosing to live within earshot of your neighbors? That argument doesn't work, and this is what I'm getting at. If ever we're stuck between enforcing a person's right to do what they want with their property and enforcing a person's right not to be offended by what their neighbor does with their own property, it's not a tough choice. Telling the neighbor, "You chose to be my neighbor" is a dumb argument. Telling the neighbor, "If you don't want to deal with retards like me, you should avoid living near retards like me" is a dumb argument.

The proper counter is: if the problem is internal to your mind, you are the person with the problem, not me.

A deal's a deal.

This argument does work. You've signed an agreement with legal force. And I absolutely agree - people need to try to negotiate their contracts to a further extent than price. Their broker or lawyer should be capable of doing so to get a good deal.

But contracts of adhesion in the sale of real estate (or in anything, really) sort of bug me as a matter of legal principle, anyways.

[Jesda]

I was watching HGTV and this couple wanted to buy a Tampa home that didn't allow you to have a truck or SUV in the neighborhood, even in the garage! They didn't allow outdoor grilling either. They told the builder that they were taking their check and leaving. Builder capitulated and modified the contract.

Makes me wonder if their neighbors are still banned from parking trucks at home or grilling food.

[AZhitman]

Some people are willing to sacrifice some of their freedoms in exchange for mandated serenity. f*** 'em. Its their right to be retards.

This retard has lived in both HOA and non-HOA communities.

I prefer my HOA community, because I don't have to look at some bum's POS '78 Granada up on milk crates in the front yard, or live across from a bright turquoise house with tinfoil on the windows.

Then again, our HOA is pretty innocuous. I agree that some of them are absurd, some have stupid rules, and there's NO way they should EVER be able to attach your property or place a lien. Ridiculous.

Lumping all HOA-dwellers into one group? Hmmm.

Jesda, you live in an "exclusive" area. No HOA there? Must be owned by a cult, or else it's priced too high for even the "credit-rich" faux ballers.

[PyR0NiAk]

I was watching HGTV and this couple wanted to buy a Tampa home that didn't allow you to have a truck or SUV in the neighborhood, even in the garage! They didn't allow outdoor grilling either. They told the builder that they were taking their check and leaving. Builder capitulated and modified the contract.

Makes me wonder if their neighbors are still banned from parking trucks at home or grilling food.

That's crossing the line... Noone messes with my grilled food during the summer.

[PoorManQ45]

How about these douches

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/business/01nopay.html

I'm interested to hear your explanation of what's wrong with that situation.

I find it humorous that people are claiming that they were "snookered" into buying a house for more then they could afford. No one held a gun to their head and made them sign on the dotted line. They made the decision to pay that amount. Should the bank have allowed it? No. Does that put the bank at fault? No.

I do like that the banks and lending institutions are really hurting right now. This allows homeowners to renegotiate their mortgage to an appropriate amount based on the current value rather then the value when the loan was taken out.

[AZhitman]

I do like that the banks and lending institutions are really hurting right now.

They're not really, but that's an idiotic thing to say. Only a blind libbie sheep who regurgitates the blather of the anti-Capitalist left would see that as a good thing.

This allows homeowners to renegotiate their mortgage to an appropriate amount based on the current value rather then the value when the loan was taken out.

..which is a colossal load of crap.

Did the bank renegotiate with the homeowners when home values skyrocketed? No.

All this does is put people like me in a bind, paying the price for all the a$$ who bought more house than they could afford.

Your short-sightedness neglects to consider those people who are invested in banks and the banking industry. When the banks lose, so do their investors.

Sorry, but if you can't afford your home, you need to move.

Harsh? Maybe. Fair? Absolutely.

The people in this article ( http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/business/01nopay.html ) are EXACTLY what's wrong with our economy. They can afford an airboat, dinner at Outback, and blowing money at a casino? NO ONE "snookered" them!!! They're just pissed because the market shifted. Sorry, a$$ - You signed a contract. YOU are the crooks, not the banks.

You want to lay blame? Lay blame on the politicians who preached home ownership as a RIGHT, not a luxury. Lay blame on the lawyers and activists and special-interest groups who harassed banks (to the extent of boycotts and lawsuits) to make loans to people who shouldn't have qualified. Lay blame on the deregulation of the industry. But DO NOT punish me for making sound financial choices, for living within my means, for dlaying gratification, and for staying true to my word!

I'll continue:

From the article: But the couple also refinanced at the height of the market, taking out cash to buy a truck they used as a contest prize for their hired animal trappers. It was a stupid move by their lender... “They went outside their own guidelines on debt to income,” he said. “And when they did, they put themselves in jeopardy.”

Wait, wait, wait. A stupid move BY THE LENDER? What about the stupid homeowner who APPLIED for the loan? FOR A GIVEAWAY? Now, who's paying for that truck? You and I. Is no one else enraged by this?

What's the upside for those of us who might be a little upside-down, yet continue to pay faithfully? What do we get? SCREWED.

Piss on those people. Karma is a wicked S.O.B.

[numbnuts240]

[HashiriyaS14]

As usual, pretty much everything Hitman said was right and just about everything PMQ said was crap.

Most HOA's are harmless, provide good services, and cannot legally put a lien on your home.


People who are ranting on normal HOA's probably don't live in very dense areas. In townhomes or condos, you NEED some kind of common standards, you can't have people making tons of noise at odd hours, especially in condos.

If you want to have no rules, move to the sticks. Hell, I'm looking at doing that myself in the next few years, I've got nothing against the idea, but in a dense development, you NEED some sensible rules.