So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Forum for Infiniti M35 and M45, and Nissan Fuga owners.
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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby jiggersplat » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:58 pm

Replacing the rods is not a trivial job. I'd find a used motor and then if you want to get your hands dirty, try and fix the old and you'll have a spare for the next catastrophe.


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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby jiggersplat » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:02 pm

Grab a used one. Oddly the newer VK56DE seems to be cheaper and has more torques. You should be the guinea pig for a swap :)

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:37 am

jiggersplat wrote:Does anyone else get just absolutely crazy valve train noise for about 30 seconds after not driving the car for a week?
I can't say I recall anything out of the ordinary with the 03 on a regular basis. Noise didn't happen every single time it sat for extended periods and neither was smoking.The worst noise was one time when I let it sit for a month in the winter IIRC, acompanied by a mini-explosion and smoke. Startups were throaty, but pretty much sounded like a Lexus from the cabin within 5 seconds.
The 06 smoked once or twice this winter when my project was going on, but again this donor car wasn't started that often.
jplaya517 wrote:So I have been told that my motor needs to be replaced by the dealership. Car has 180k on it. Took it to another place and they said that the connecting rod(s) need to be replaced. What do you guys think, flip the car, find a motor that won't kill the pocket book, or just remove the head and replace the connecting rod myself? I'm no mechanic but I am good at putting things back together.
I'm with jiggersplat on this one. Replace the engine then mess with the damaged one at your own leisure. What symptoms are these facilities basing their recommendations on?

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby carlcidortiz » Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:26 pm

I just bought an 06 m45 so have not bought a complete used engine deciding if i should take the crankshaft and get it inspected to see if it can be repaired and put sone bearings. The car hit a piece of concrete and broke the oil pan. The other owner put a new oil pan with new bearings but engine is stuck? Maybe some crank repairs or polish?? The car had 102k miles and no problems i think i asked this question on this forum already but the best or easiest way to remove the complete engine is from under the car?

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:53 am

It's been quite some time as I mulled over the best way to conclude this issue.

One member had said of the y34 back in the day, "... they eat oil, a quart here, a quart there. Just top it off and don't worry," or something to that effect.
The crux of the matter is that I have yet to hear of a single 03-04 M45 or similar gen Q45 throwing rods although we know that they too, consume oil.

Maybe it's a plain numbers issue as more Y50 V8s were produced as compared to the predecessors... which means whatever percentage of engines have issues will result in higher numbers of issues reported.

I've had direct experience with:
- A 2003 that blew a head gasket
- A 2006 that I bought with a clunky engine
- Another 2006 with no engine issues although the trans had been replaced in the past
- A 2008 whose engine was replaced at 90k miles, before I bought it.
This is in addition to all those I've consulted with on the forum as well as people I've made contact with thru Craigslist, etc.

Side note
Through CL I've come across:
+ Hydrolocked engines due to aftermarket intakes
+ Cracked oil pans and lost oil due to impact with road debris
+ Lowered cars scraping on otherwise non-hazardous road features and cracking oil pans
+ Can't remember when they last changed oil. [Some people treat cars like all they need for upkeep is fuelling up]
+ Used synthetic oil with good intentions but ignored to check the oil for too long a time [Remember, just because the new recommended OCI is 10,000 miles, your engine still probably consumes oil at its regular intervals]


I assume owners of both 03,04 and 06+ M45 platforms are a mixed bag whereby some are diligent on self-maintenance, some will follow shop-recommended oil change schedules, and some will neglect their maintenance - what I'd expect of most commuter vehicle owners really.
The failures seem to affect all 3 groups, and I'd expect a bias on the neglection camp.
I still can't explain what physically changed in 06+ apart from the upper intake collector, oil pan and starter location - things that in my mind shouldn't even remotely affect longevity if oil consumption remains the same.

To conclude, if ever I could, I'll just advice all to stay on top of your oil changes. Maintain it at the right levels and hope that Lady Luck keeps smiling upon you.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby LIBRILZ » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:26 am

this is making me not want to buy an M45, I don't want the VK exploding on me, I want something reliable

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:11 am

From the limited number of people who came here and posted issues, I'd say they're not that unreliable.

If you find one with 200k miles and it runs well, get it and keep up with the maintenance. If you get one with 80k miles and it's ticking and tapping, run away from that time bomb.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby LIBRILZ » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:51 pm

Well im looking at one with 89K, if that's the case yeah It's a no for me

Maybe I should stick to the ones with a VQ, that is a bulletproof motor

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:09 pm

Ever wondered what is meant by throwing a rod?
I'll spare you the science lesson, but I'll do some show and tell. Basically, a connecting rod leaves the crankshaft (in a hurry) resulting in a few different unpleasant outcomes. This is what happened to my old engine

This is the exit route created at the bottom of the engine, through the oil pan.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

This is where the 2 rods ran away from.
Image

This is the only one I could find
Image

The power steering lines took a little bit of a beating, but they weren't leaking.
This is what they should look like:
Image
Image

But this is what a runaway rod will do to them
Image
Image
Image
Image



This is what happened to the rest of the connecting rods:
Image

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby jiggersplat » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:23 am

Love the piston clocks!

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:41 am

jiggersplat wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:23 am
Love the piston clocks!
Why, thank you! There's one here with your name on it, if you want it.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby LIBRILZ » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:00 pm

EdBwoy wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:53 am

+ Used synthetic oil with good intentions but ignored to check the oil for too long a time [Remember, just because the new recommended OCI is 10,000 miles, your engine still probably consumes oil at its regular intervals]
wait Infiniti updated the OCI? it's 10k miles/ Where is that at, I tried looking for that info

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:22 pm

No, I didn't mean it that way. It's still probably 3,750 or whatever the manual says.

As an example, take a car with an oil capacity of 5 quarts. This car burns half a quart of oil every 1,000 miles.


1. A driver changes the oil every 3,000 miles as a rule of thumb using conventional oil. This person still loses 1.5 quarts by the oil change time, and if he/she never checks the oil dipstick, he/she will never know that any oil was lost.
2. This same driver discovers the wonderful world of synthetic oil. With all the right intentions, they switched over and started planning for 5,000 or 7,500 or 10,000-mile etc... oil change intervals.
That's all fine and dandy, but again if this driver still never checks the oil, the car is still losing half a quart every 1,000 as usual.

Now, a car will operate at a quart or even 2 low. (Not ideal, but the engine will keep going if it's not beat up.) The problem comes in the 2nd situation above since the engine is running really low by the time the car rolls over 5,000 miles. (.5 quarts/1000 miles x 5,000 miles = 2.5 quarts) which is well below the dipstick; and hypothetically empty of the entire 5 quarts by 10,000 miles.

These are all numbers I just used for illustration, but they are not unrealistic and some people I spoke to did indeed run into such situations innocently.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby LIBRILZ » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:39 pm

Oh ok.

I wonder what reason Nissan gives for such short drain intervals, I mean 3700 is ridic to me

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My opinion on oil change intervals

Postby EdBwoy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:54 am

What kinds of OCIs are you used to? 3,750 miles doesn't seem that bad to me... but that is Schedule 1, for cars operated in severe conditions. Schedule 2 is 7,500 miles.
These days I use synthetic and aim for 5,000 miles.
{Recall that my numbers are just for illustration purposes}


I have never designed a car engine, but I used to work as a reliability engineer and among other duties, we would make these very decisions and write the maintenance manuals for our equipment. The manufacturer would recommend an interval, but sometimes we would tweak these to suit our production schedules. So, this is how I would do it if I was writing the manual for Nissan:

A.
Start with brand new engines running in a test facility or in a pre-production car. You monitor oil life at various durations, like how many revolutions/hours the engine has ran.
There are industry standards on what points oil loses its ideal lubrication/cleaning/cooling capabilities. In the lab, used oil samples are collected and analyzed every midday. They note down when each engine started to exhibit oil deterioration below the acceptable standard.

B.
At this point, I'd look at the history of each engine and convert the days -> hours -> minutes -> engine cycles/ revolutions.
Then I make some assumptions on what a hard driven car will do in speeds and convert those engine revolutions to miles because in the real world people monitor miles (or hours) of usage rather than cycles.

C.
Unless there is a crazy outlier that was breaking oil down at 1,000 miles while every other engine was concentrated around 4,000 miles, then I go to the bell curve of data points and choose the lowest point. Assume most engines are in the 3,700 - 5,000 range while your highest sample went for 7,000 miles.
Ignore the top range when writing a manual.
No point in sticking my neck out and being liable for the fraction of cars that damage their engines by following my middle-ground 4,500 mile OCI. I'd just give you the lowest reasonable number so 99% of the engines are covered.

And that is how I would come up with the Schedule 1 maintenance schedule.
Repeat the experiment with the engines running at moderate load to come up with the Schedule 2 recommendation.


*Now, if I wanted a smarter schedule to account for grandma and a lead-foot teenage kid and their presumably different driving habits, I'd make my maintenance logic tied to individual car behavior and the data the ECU is collecting anyway. I'd set up an algorithm that still targets number of engine cycles in the end; but gives allowance to things like ambient temperature, engine temperature, engine and car speeds, throttle position, etc... so that in the end even if grandma and grandkid got an oil change on the same day, grandma's oil life monitor would still show 30% when the drag-racing teenager's is showing 5%.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby LIBRILZ » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:19 pm

Well I used to go at least 10K with mobil 1 EP on my 2001 I30, never had a problem or sludge or anything, car ran fine with over 200K on it, and I know Nissan said the OCI was 7500 on that car, I just thought 3750 for a relatively newer engine design was kinda short

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:36 pm

All Nissan manuals I've read have 2 schedules. The VQ30 probably also said 3,750 miles for severe operation (I'm not in a good position to check that right now), but again they didn't have as many oil burning reports as the engines that came after.

You can do 10,000 mile OCIs if you want, but if you get an m45, don't ignore your car for 10k miles. Check it often and keep the oil topped up.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby LIBRILZ » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:35 am

I know the 06+ M45 VK can have issues with the catalytic converters, do you think that could be an issue as to why some people get failures from their number 8 engine cylinder? Just a thought

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:55 am

From my research, I didn't get the impression that the V8s had any serious catalytic element longevity or failure issues like say the VQ35 maxima or some Sentras. However, the exhaust manifolds in the 03 & 04 m45 models did seem to have cracking issues.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby FlawleZ » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:06 pm

Just wanted to check in since I last posted in 2015. It's now Jan 14 2018 and I've tacked on another 20K+ miles on my '06 M45. Currently at 133K and still running strong as ever. In the last couple years I did have to replace the harmonic balancer, idler pulley, valve cover gaskets, and the cam position sensor. Just hit about 4100 miles on my current oil and tomorrow I'll change it out for another ~6 quarts of Royal Purple. Even though Royal Purple is rated for extreme performance and longevity, I never let it go beyond about 4500 miles at most.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:55 am

FlawleZ wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:06 pm
Just wanted to check in since I last posted in 2015. It's now Jan 14 2018 and I've tacked on another 20K+ miles on my '06 M45. Currently at 133K and still running strong as ever. In the last couple years I did have to replace the harmonic balancer, idler pulley, valve cover gaskets, and the cam position sensor. Just hit about 4100 miles on my current oil and tomorrow I'll change it out for another ~6 quarts of Royal Purple. Even though Royal Purple is rated for extreme performance and longevity, I never let it go beyond about 4500 miles at most.
Right on! I usually say the M45 is a very reliable car... if you don't mind looking under the hood once in a while. Apart from your harmonic balancer, everything else seems like reasonable maintenance for the age.

Folks, I will keep screaming this from the rooftops: Check your oil. Read your dipstick.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:10 am

I've made a funny observation. In the cars I bought with junk engines, I noticed both had oil way above MAX on the dipstick. Makes sense - 7,000 miles since the last oil change, you hear knocking, you panic and you buy a gallon of oil and pour it in but it's too late.
If I wrote a buying guide (for any car really), I'd advise this on checking oil:

1. Check the oil with the engine dead cold. If you test drive it, check it about 10-15 minutes after you have shut it off.

2. If oil is way overfilled, run. They are either masking a leak, or overfilled in panic... or they don't know what they're doing, and Ignorance can be expensive. It could also be that it's getting coolant into the oil pan.

3. If oil is brand new, beware! Unless you see documented evidence that the oil was changed less than 100 miles ago on a "reasonable" schedule, I am suspicious on the urgency of getting rid of a car with a fresh oil change. Oil normally gets "dirty" fairly quickly.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby LIBRILZ » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:28 am

My M45 had a recent oil change when I bought it, but I'm fine 3-4k later, about to change it again

The P/O also had the computer OCI set at 3k for both filter and oil

waiting on blackstone to send me an oil analysis kit, gonna see how things are doing

Do you guys believe that maybe in the cases of M45s with junked engines, it's simply because people just don't believe they have to check their oil that often in a nice car like the M?

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:52 pm

I see you ended up getting an M45. Nice.
LIBRILZ wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:28 am

Do you guys believe that maybe in the cases of M45s with junked engines, it's simply because people just don't believe they have to check their oil that often in a nice car like the M?
I would hope not, but that's a good point. Often you hear people looking for a "maintenance free" car, lawn mower,etc... No such thing exists. As much as some machines might tolerate neglect better than others, the 06+ M45 engines don't seem to be as forgiving.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby FlawleZ » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

LIBRILZ wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:28 am


Do you guys believe that maybe in the cases of M45s with junked engines, it's simply because people just don't believe they have to check their oil that often in a nice car like the M?
Just one word fam: Negligence.

I think it all starts to make sense actually if you take a look at the overall general demographic of most Infiniti M owners. I mean, let's face it...we're in the minority being enthusiastic about our vehicles. The most that the majority of M owners do themselves is pump the gas into the tank and that may still be pushing it for some.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby LIBRILZ » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:43 pm

FlawleZ wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm
LIBRILZ wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:28 am


Do you guys believe that maybe in the cases of M45s with junked engines, it's simply because people just don't believe they have to check their oil that often in a nice car like the M?
Just one word fam: Negligence.

I think it all starts to make sense actually if you take a look at the overall general demographic of most Infiniti M owners. I mean, let's face it...we're in the minority being enthusiastic about our vehicles. The most that the majority of M owners do themselves is pump the gas into the tank and that may still be pushing it for some.
yeah, and that can make all the difference, If you think you never have to check or change oil as often as recommended that could make all the difference

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby midnightclub619 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:36 pm

completely agree with @Flawlez & @Librilz. Not following up on regular maintenance makes a huge difference and makes or breaks your motor.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby EdBwoy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:00 pm

Fully agree that maintenance is a big factor.
What I was looking for is this. The demographic of people that own Lexus, BMW, Mercedes etc... is probably the same as that of those who own an Infiniti M. How come the 06+ M V8 is less forgiving to neglect compared to all those others, an M V6 or even an 03/04 M45?

For me, I'm happy. My 08 uses half a quart of oil over approx 7,000 miles. I check often and write down when and how much I top it off.

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby LIBRILZ » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:24 pm

My fear is that you can do everything right and still have an engine problem, that is my biggest fear, hopefully it's unwarranted

Ed what's the most miles you've seen on an 06+ M45?

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Re: So, what happened to your V8 engine?(VK45DE)

Postby amc49 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:02 am

Install and learn to watch a MECHANICAL type oil pressure gauge in the car and always have an extra quart of oil to throw in it when needed. Anytime you start running critically low on oil the gauge will show it when it begins to needle scatter. That's the pump beginning to suck air to make the pressure jump around and you stop as soon as you see it and add the extra quart. With it in motor the problem disappears instantly. Any time you get needle scatter you are likely within a few minutes of engine destruction but catching it right as soon as it begins can add years of life to the motor. Then, do as y'all discuss higher up, i.e., routine maintenance, and don't worry so much about it.

Are you guys running lighter weight 'mileage' oils? That can make them eat somewhat more. And nobody in this thread mentions valve seals at all, which can be a huge source of oil loss when they get harder with age.


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