So... still liking Donald Trump as Republican Nominee?

[IBCoupe]

I'll just leave this here.

[mattblancarte]

Nope

[AZhitman]

Never a fan, but nothing he said therein changes my opinion.

I put the whole "birther" debate in the same category as arguing about religion.... One group can't prove anything, so they poke fun at the other group, who can't defend their position with empirical facts, and around it goes.

It's ignorant - ON BOTH SIDES.

[bigbadberry3]

I'm not sure who I would rather see nominated between this fella and Mrs. Palin.....

[the a3k]

sarah palin ftw!

LOL JK

i'll like trump is he gives me money

[mattblancarte]

From what I understand, there is legitimate empirical evidence to support the citizenship of President Obama.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... ficate.asp

Different in my eyes from debates surrounding religion, but I understand what you're saying.

[Bubba1]

I'm not sure who I would rather see nominated between this fella and Mrs. Palin.....

I'd say neither. I dont t see Trump following thru with running, because of the financial disclosure rule. I don't think he;ll want it revealed what he actually earns, especially if it's less than what he's boasted making. Also, as a CEO or executive producer of a TV show, he's used to having people follow his direction toward one goal, and those that disagree don;t stay. Can't do that with Congress. Everyone has their own agenda, and everyone disagrees.

I still think plump NJ Governor Chris Christie will end up the Republican nominee.

[IBCoupe]

Greg, Hawaii released his birth certificate. Birthers said, "Well, that's not the long-form birth certificate!" Intelligent people said, "Right, because Hawaii didn't have one in 1963." That's where the "debate" is.

I suppose it's like a debate about religion if you're looking at a debate about evolution vs. Creationism - yes, nobody truly "knows," bit only one side is fighting with logic.

But, you're right: aside from being a disqualifier for public office in my eyes (as it demonstrates an inability to think rationally), it's a political non-issue.

[srellim234]

Interesting, too, that the birthers have chosen to ignore the records from the overseas schools he attended as a child. They all indicate, without any sign of forgery, that he was born in Hawaii.

[AZhitman]

I still think plump NJ Governor Chris Christie will end up the Republican nominee.

I would favor that. Not enough to change my political affiliation, but I'd prefer him over Palin / Gingrich / Trump.

[szh]

It's ignorant - ON BOTH SIDES.

Yup! The arguments are silly ...

As I look at it, regardless of where Prez Obama was born, his mother was a US Citizen (and there is no question about that!).

As I understand it, this makes him a US Citizen by birth, not by naturalization (like me ), and therefore he is eligible for the office. Just like McCain was eligible, even though he was born in the Canal Zone (right?)

Now, if you ask me whether Prez Obama should have been elected to the office, I am still a "No" vote - and the past years have not changed that belief. But, it isn't because of a concern about his birth.

I wish all pro and con arguers of this issue (including me!) would simply shut up and just move along.

Z

[bigbadberry3]

What's wrong with Ron Paul.....

[srellim234]

What's wrong with Ron Paul.....

He lacks the charisma to get enough votes. It's all about having a movie star smile, good looks or enough money to buy the votes.

[AZhitman]

What's wrong with Ron Paul.....

I don't think he's GOP enough for the GOP.

I like him, but I think the old-school White wealthy rank-and-file see him as a bit of a "loose cannon".

[bigbadberry3]

What's wrong with Ron Paul.....

I don't think he's GOP enough for the GOP.

I like him, but I think the old-school White wealthy rank-and-file see him as a bit of a "loose cannon".

I like him too, guess you're correct that he's too moderate. He did win a few straw pulls though....

[heliochrome85]

In new york, Gov. Christie is known as the Governor of Sandwiches.

[AZhitman]

...I'm just waiting for some limp-wristed Liberal to say something about Christie's "heft"...

I mean, if they can call him "fatty", then there's no reason the Right can't go back to singing, "Barack the Magic Negro", right?

Love the hypocrisy. Fat is fair game, but Black ain't. Strange indeed.

[AppleBonker]

Sorry to bump this thread, but Trump has been getting some media coverage for his demands to see a birth cert. lately. I have a few questions since I tried to research this a little bit on my own, and I am by no means a "sharp" legal/political mind. Hopefully one of you other geniuses can break it down and spoon feed me.

Basically, the claim I continue to hear is that Barack isn't releasing his *long form* birth cert because he's hiding something. As others have pointed out, the short form is out there, though it's authenticity has been challenged by plenty of people. When asked, those people tend to respond that he must be hiding the "fact" that he was born in another country. With this info, I set out to determine what would still make him a "natural born citizen" as required to become president.

I found this site with the US code and I can only assume it to be complete and factual: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc ... _30_I.html

Looking at Title 8 Section 1401, it appears subsection g is the important part:

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date;

Given that his mother was born in Kansas (I think) and then moved to Hawaii and never lived outside the US before Barack was born (when she was eighteen), doesn't that fulfill the requirements of this section for Barack to be a US citizen at birth (regardless of where he was actually born)? Even if he was born in Kenya, wouldn't he still be a US citizen at birth and therefore be eligible for the presidency? Or am I missing something else entirely here?

I know szh touched on this earlier in the thread, I just wanted an actual source that could be referenced (no offense Z). This way if the interpretation is incorrect, someone can point to a specific part of the code to demonstrate that.

[IBCoupe]

I can't find anything that would make this not be a clear indicator. The birthers on various websites claim that this doesn't matter because the Constitution requires that you be a natural born citizen, and they think that means to two parents who are citizens, too!

Also they go off about some kind of British dual citizenship.

And somehow try to tie it into "supremacy," but I don't think the word means what they think it means.

[bigbadberry3]

Trump really isn't that smart of a guy, read up on him and you'd be surprised.

[themadscientist]

I think the only person who thinks he is a good nominee is him. Luckily he is a modest person who has likely arrived at that opinion through objective analysis.

[IBCoupe]

I think the only person who thinks he is a good nominee is him. Luckily he is a modest person who has likely arrived at that opinion through objective analysis.

So full of win, you are!

[AppleBonker]

I can't find anything that would make this not be a clear indicator. The birthers on various websites claim that this doesn't matter because the Constitution requires that you be a natural born citizen, and they think that means to two parents who are citizens, too!

Or that natural born means you were physically born in the US, which is laughable.

Also they go off about some kind of British dual citizenship.

But I don't see how this would preclude one from being a US citizen. I haven't read anything anywhere that supports this idea.

Anyway, thanks for your response. I feel better knowing that someone else (especially since that someone has a stronger legal background than I do) is interpreting this the same way. Assuming your assessment is correct, why haven't more reporters/hosts/whatever touched on this? It bothers me that guys like Trump can go on tv and complain about the birth cert when it doesn't matter, and nobody corrects this. It took me all of about five minutes to find the code and analyze it. Are reporters/etc too busy to do that? Clearly this is somewhat of a big deal as it continues to get news coverage. I'm just stunned that no one has brought this up. I'm not sure what else he could be "hiding" on his birth certificate.

Note: except that some people think his birth cert somehow shows he is Muslim, which again is laughable. I can only speak from my own personal experience, but if a birth certificate listed religious denomination, I cannot agree that it would be an accurate tag for life. If one appeared on my birth certificate I would probably be listed as Roman Catholic, and anyone who has read a bulk of my posts knows how accurate this would be.

[IBCoupe]

Why don't people cover it? Eh, probably because, despite what some on the right claim, mainstream media outlets have gotten over and forgotten the birthers.

[AppleBonker]

Sorry, I meant why don't they cover this "rebuttal"? I'm not asking anyone to go out of their way to explain it. But if you're interviewing Trump and he poses this question, shouldn't you point out how dumb it is? I mean, the guy generally mentions in his interviews that he finished at the top of his class and that he's a smart guy. Well, IMO, smart guys don't ask stupid questions.

[IBCoupe]

Ah, I see. Yeah, I don't know. It's so depressing that most journalists have very little understanding of the applicable laws that I find myself really excited, for example, when Nina Totenberg reports on Supreme Court decisions/oral arguments with an apparently intimate, firm grasp on the subject matter for NPR.

For that alone, I wish to have her babies. Yeah, I really don't care what she looks like. Mostly, I want to have her brain's babies.

[R/T Hemi]

...I'm just waiting for some limp-wristed Liberal to say something about Christie's "heft"...

I mean, if they can call him "fatty", then there's no reason the Right can't go back to singing, "Barack the Magic Negro", right?

Love the hypocrisy. Fat is fair game, but Black ain't. Strange indeed.

That deserves a Jerry Springer quote.
“My guess is more reporters probably vote Democrat than Republican - just because I think reporters are smart.”


You know. I have a strong feeling the next year (primaries) is going to be fun here. I've got so much work to do.

[IBCoupe]

I didn't catch that comment, heh. So, Greg, is it that you think there's an equivalence of circumstance to being black and being fat?

Silly Obama. Guy needs to spend more time in the shade, that's what he needs to do.

[Eikon]

I really don't like Donald Trump, but I would like to see a business leader in the White House. I think our country needs a change of pace.. someone to shake up the financial controls that have turned our government into the stupid mess it is now.

Politically, I still love Mike Huckabee. Bring on the Fair Tax!

[IBCoupe]

Huckabee, were he to ditch his Baptist-Minister-in-Chief vibe, would bug me less.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with excessive religiosity, or even that I think religious people are bad. But the more religious a person is, the more I fear the effect of that religion on public office.