So I drove a Civic....

[frapjap]

This morning I was awoken to the sound of an exessively loud exhaust. So naturally I got a little upset, but didn't allow this to ruin my slumber and rolled over. Later, when the more reasonable time of 11am rolled around I dwindled downstairs to see that my friend Daniel's roomate bought a 99 Civic hatch CX. Now normally, I'd give less than a **** about a Civic, seeing how I'm 240sx infatuaited, but this particular one was 5 speed and had the B16 swap into it. Well, "who gives a **** about B series?" I thought to myself. After pulling out of the apartment complex and getting on some unfamiliar road in Orlando, I let her rip from a stoplight. She wasn't much off the line, but as soon as it hit ~55-6 grand it really started to scream up top. Now, at this point, I thought to myself...that MUST have been a fluke..I mean, no Honda Civic could have acceptable acceleration, could it? Just to be sure, I had to do it again, this time, letting it climb to every gear til about 7500, and I must say, I was thoroughly impressed with the speed and power the motor makes, and understand now just what VTEC means, its quite nice in summary. Also, keep in mind, it is a turtle looking body style, but it has some sort of strut/spring combo, or coilovers(I really dont know) that made it handle pretty decently. All in all, I was unexpectedly impressed with the car/motor. Though this motor is in a much lighter, base model vehicle, it still screamed.In summary, I was pretty pleased.

Side note: this particular car has ONE HELL of an exhaust leak...

[MAXIMUS Nismo]

Don't knock it till you try it.

When done right, hondas can be some great cars. The only thing I don't like is that most of the 4 cylinder series engines sound like crap when an exhaust is installed. (except the S2000).

VTEC is great man. The concept is sound and is copied by almost every one. I've seen quite a few cars and drivers humiliated by hondas.

Until I get boosted, I won't be suckered by a honda. Even though I like to flaunt the fact taht my exhause sounds so so much better than theirs.

[InsanityInc]

VTEC isn't copied by everyone. Despite popular belief, VTEC is very ****ing far from the first example of variable valve timing. Ferrari was the first to use it if I recall, and toyota had it before honda.

[T4 RB25det]

i had a turbo gsr before i had my 240, and it wasnt too bad, sounded great compared to other hondas out there. it was a beast on the freeway but since it was front wheel drive it sucked anywere else. the main reason i sold it and bought the 240 was simply rear drive and i wanted an inline 6

the gsr is prolly just as fast if not faster than my pretty heavily modified 240

[240sHorTy]

I don't hate on the Honda's personally. I drive a CRX HF as a daily and I love the 45ish MPG it gives me. I also looked at a custom Miata in Cinci that had the s2000 drivetrain. Would've been a bad little car to own. You may have seen the article in Super Street on it. That engines has, or at least had the highest power/displacement ratio of any production engine. I pesonally respect the VTec power plants. And I would've bought a Prelude if it were RWD. Honda's biggest flaw is not offering an economical rear drive car similar to a 240.

[InsanityInc]

I don't hate on the Honda's personally. I drive a CRX HF as a daily and I love the 45ish MPG it gives me. I also looked at a custom Miata in Cinci that had the s2000 drivetrain. Would've been a bad little car to own. You may have seen the article in Super Street on it. That engines has, or at least had the highest power/displacement ratio of any production engine. I pesonally respect the VTec power plants. And I would've bought a Prelude if it were RWD. Honda's biggest flaw is not offering an economical rear drive car similar to a 240.

The 2.2L s2000 motor doesn't have the highest bhp/displacement. Exotics (and even some high end sports cars, like the elise or TVRs) have far more than the 109bhp/L that the s2000 motor has.

[Jesse SR20]

and had the B16 swap into it.

And the B16 was considered the mild B-series.

I owned a 99 Civic hatch with a B20 (2.0 liter). It was a lot of fun to drive. It didn't have VTEC, so it lacked high rpm power, but it had tourqe at low rpm.

I have nothing but respect for Honda. I left the Honda scene because of the stigma, and the fact that I out grew fwd.

[fatboy]

my brother has a turbo hatch and races all over the place and is well known (ill leave it at that). ive driven it before, the power is out of this world but in the end, its still fwd. that doesnt mean it doesnt handle well though. his autox hatch kills pretty much every 240 around. honda power is still superior to nissan in my opinion. if honda made an affordable rwd car, id be on it

[Fenvy]

don't let the ricers fool you

if you peek over at the gallery in hondatech, you'll notice alot of people have built NA motors or FI motors

cheesefrog is one of those who beat a modded 10 sec viper on video, was it not?

there was also another thread on FA, again viper vs civic, guess who won a tank of gas and caught on video?

honda is a legend of 4 cylinder imo

[GhostDriver]

I don't dislike Hondas. They aren't bad cars and I respect the guys that know how to do them right.

I left the Honda scene because of the stigma, and the fact that I out grew fwd.

lol You can't be serious? YOu just walked into another one!lol (240SX w/ SR)

[HashiriyaS14]

The 2.2L s2000 motor doesn't have the highest bhp/displacement. Exotics (and even some high end sports cars, like the elise or TVRs) have far more than the 109bhp/L that the s2000 motor has.

Firstly, the F20C (2.0L, 240hp), by definition, had a better hp/liter ratio than the 2.2 did, so why compare the 2.2? It produces 120hp/liter, which is VERY impressive indeed for a production car. So thus, as comparison:

Ferrari 360: 111hp/liter (3.6L, ~400hp)Ferrari 430: 113hp/liter (4.3L, 490hp)Ferrari F50: 109hp/liter (5.7L, 513hp)Ferrari Enzo: 110hp/liter (6.0L, 660hp)Lotus Elise (Toyota 2ZZ-GE): 103hp/liter (1.8L, 187hp)

If you can find a production car that does 120hp/liter, go for it, but there can't be too many of them. I can't think of one. Stop being wrong all the time, I'm getting tired of correcting you
Modified by HashiriyaS14 at 11:16 PM 8/21/2005

[k6kicker]

Personally, I've never never seen HP/Liter as anything other then a neat little marketing figure, but there are some seriously fast hondas out there in the wild (where HP/Pound comes into play)...fwd does lick *** though

[Chingon]

Firstly, the F20C (2.0L, 240hp), by definition, had a better hp/liter ratio than the 2.2 did, so why compare the 2.2? It produces 120hp/liter, which is VERY impressive indeed for a production car. So thus, as comparison:

Ferrari 360: 111hp/liter (3.6L, ~400hp)Ferrari 430: 113hp/liter (4.3L, 490hp)Ferrari F50: 109hp/liter (5.7L, 513hp)Ferrari Enzo: 110hp/liter (6.0L, 660hp)Lotus Elise (Toyota 2ZZ-GE): 103hp/liter (1.8L, 187hp)

If you can find a production car that does 120hp/liter, go for it, but there can't be too many of them. I can't think of one. Stop being wrong all the time, I'm getting tired of correcting you

rx8 180 hp/ltr.

Unless we are talking reciprocating, then it still fails against nissan's own sr16ve n1 123 hp/ltr.

[HashiriyaS14]

rx8 180 hp/ltr.

Unless we are talking reciprocating, then it still fails against nissan's own sr16ve n1 123 hp/ltr.

Yeah, I knew the Rotaries were all way higher, but that's sort of a different benchmark. What car does the SR16ven N1 come in? That's a helluva ratio? So it's a naturally aspirated production-car 1.6L engine that produces 196hp?

NOTE: If anyone else finds engines that best 120hp/liter, cool, but it wasn't my intention to say that they didn't exist. I just wanted Insanity to be aware that the Elise and all those Ferraris didn't have the ratios he might have thought they did.

[frapjap]

THe hatch was a breeze in handeling as well, there were a set of coilovers into it already, so it was about 2 inches from the ground and very stiff, just the way suspension needs to be. I'm sure its a dream autoxing with it. Next time I go to buy a car soon (if its not a G35) I'll definitely be looking towards Honda.

[Chingon]

Yeah, I knew the Rotaries were all way higher, but that's sort of a different benchmark. What car does the SR16ven N1 come in? That's a helluva ratio? So it's a naturally aspirated production-car 1.6L engine that produces 196hp?

NOTE: If anyone else finds engines that best 120hp/liter, cool, but it wasn't my intention to say that they didn't exist. I just wanted Insanity to be aware that the Elise and all those Ferraris didn't have the ratios he might have thought they did.

Pulsar VZ-R N1, Pulsar VZ-R SSS N1

[240sxjeff]

Honda's are actually not that bad at all and in my opinion are reasonable if you do them right. I had a 1990 CRX about two-three years back with a GSR block and B16 head with a few bolt-on's and a whole bunch of suspension goodies. And to tell you the truth that car will hand my 240 its *** at the autox track or the dragstrip. But that car was to small and I was tired of every other Honda wanting to race which is kind of ironic cause now its 240's that are all over the place. Point being don't sleep on the Honda's, some of them can be built right

[JimmyMethod]

Well, first off, I'm guessing the B16 your friend had in his Civic was the B16C, the DOHC Vtec, that's in the Si's of that generation. (somewhere around 160hp). B16 just refers to the bottom end, and could be 'teh suck' or quite gusty.Second, with a manual, you can keep a bored out low-torque engine up in the range where it stays on the power cam, giving you plenty of acceleration. Regarding what Jesse said, the B20 does have a bit more torque than the other B series, but lacking Vtec, that's why there's quite a few honda tuners that use the B20 bottom-end from the CRV or one of the older preludes, before the H-series, paired with the top end from the B16C. This gives it much more torque and the high reving DOHC Vtec. 'Franks' aren't terrible common, but they're definitely cool.Lastly, I'm assuming you guys are refering only to NA hp/liter because getting into forced induction...the mind boggles...P.S. The Super 7 CSR has 114 hp/liter. Beats all the Ferraris (and also beats them on the track, I can't even FATHOM 3.1 sec 0-60 times.)

[InsanityInc]

Firstly, the F20C (2.0L, 240hp), by definition, had a better hp/liter ratio than the 2.2 did, so why compare the 2.2? It produces 120hp/liter, which is VERY impressive indeed for a production car. So thus, as comparison:

Ferrari 360: 111hp/liter (3.6L, ~400hp)Ferrari 430: 113hp/liter (4.3L, 490hp)Ferrari F50: 109hp/liter (5.7L, 513hp)Ferrari Enzo: 110hp/liter (6.0L, 660hp)Lotus Elise (Toyota 2ZZ-GE): 103hp/liter (1.8L, 187hp)

If you can find a production car that does 120hp/liter, go for it, but there can't be too many of them. I can't think of one. Stop being wrong all the time, I'm getting tired of correcting you

Modified by HashiriyaS14 at 11:16 PM 8/21/2005

TVR Speed 12. 7.7L, made over 1000WHP (they don't have an exact number because it broke a 1000WHP dyno). With the restrictor plate in place, it still made 840ish BHP.TVR Speed 8. 4.1-4.5L, made about 550HP if I recall, varied depending on the car it was in.

They don't make either one anymore, though.

And what are you getting tired of correcting me about? The last thing I recall you "correcting" me on ended up with you being unequivocably wrong when I quite clearly demonstrated that the supra was in fact rice, by ANY definition.

[Chingon]

TVR Speed 12. 7.7L, made over 1000WHP (they don't have an exact number because it broke a 1000WHP dyno). With the restrictor plate in place, it still made 840ish BHP.TVR Speed 8. 4.1-4.5L, made about 550HP if I recall, varied depending on the car it was in.

They don't make either one anymore, though.

And what are you getting tired of correcting me about? The last thing I recall you "correcting" me on ended up with you being unequivocably wrong when I quite clearly demonstrated that the supra was in fact rice, by ANY definition.

tvr cerbera speed 12 never saw production and the tvr speed 12 was only built for racing.

tvr cerbera speed 8 4.5 - 420 bhptvr cerbera speed 8 4.185 - 360 bhp

But I did think of another one:Tiger racing z100wr something like 165 hp/ltr, but they use bike engines..

[drifter_for_life06]

my neighbor has a Civic hatch with a B16...he has a ractive muffler not sure on piping i beleive an intake possibly a header

he claims he runs 14's then yesterday he said he runs 12....and he "walks" Z06's all the time supposedly...i heard him spin into second thena gain it was uphill.....

[ILikeMy240sx]

Civic "walks" a z06 puhahahahahahahahaaaaa

Last time a Civic tried to race me I beat him with a KA and a bad knock sensor with check engine light... psh.

[drifter_for_life06]

thats what he claims...ive yet to ride in it

the other "car kids" areound here rode in it and say tis quick....then again none of them have ruden in anything faster than their D16 civic and RS Eclipse........and they've only SEEN a fast 240 frmo a distance

[97ka-t]

Civic "walks" a z06 puhahahahahahahahaaaaa

Last time a Civic tried to race me I beat him with a KA and a bad knock sensor with check engine light... psh.

[574-240sx]

We have to add the word "lame" and "ghey" some where in this thread. I tried the honda work 5 years ago. My JDM engine was over priced then and couldn't think of the cost it would take today. The dam thing blew a headgaskets every few months.

[InsanityInc]

tvr cerbera speed 12 never saw production and the tvr speed 12 was only built for racing.

tvr cerbera speed 8 4.5 - 420 bhptvr cerbera speed 8 4.185 - 360 bhp

But I did think of another one:Tiger racing z100wr something like 165 hp/ltr, but they use bike engines..

There were a few produced, but I'm not sure if they ever sold them. The engine was most definitely produced in a form that could run on normal gas, though. And there are higher output versions of the speed 8, those are probably specs for an earlier model (like the one used in the old griffith 500s).

[sleepyRPS13]

VTEC isn't copied by everyone. Despite popular belief, VTEC is very ****ing far from the first example of variable valve timing. Ferrari was the first to use it if I recall, and toyota had it before honda.

i found: first GM experimented with vvt & vl but abandoned it due to some technical problems. then fiat developed the first functional variable valve timing & variable lift in the 70's.

[Sky240PWR]

My last car was a Acura Integra LS with the 1.8, when I bought the car, the guy who owned it before me had done some internal work(not sure what, never had any trouble with it so I never took it apart) and I put a cold air intake and exhaust and some light rims and sticky tires on it and it was pretty fast!!.....I beat all the other integras I raced and it beat every 4 and 6 cylinder i raced(but i never raced a RB)..anyway i sold that and now i love my 91 240 hb with a RB25!!!

[chandler]

its either a b16a, b16A2, or a B16b, there was never a b16c. you use the bottom end off of a crv, not an older prelude, the prelude engine is the bastard child of the honda community, I own a 92 prelude, which will have a NA H22a or H22a1 in it after I pay off the Mac tools guy. and my 240 will be my turbo car, The honda is quick and handles pretty good for fwd, it handles quite differently from a civic, much more ballanced, but I have this hatred for driving stock cars.....any ways. I built a b16A2 civic hatch a while back, and I sold it, it had a full skunk 2 valvetrain and p28 computer, it was mean, but the guy who bought it let it get stolen...... parked it out side with the alarm off... go figure

[dfw240_EE]

Second, with a manual, you can keep a bored out low-torque engine up in the range where it stays on the power cam, giving you plenty of acceleration.

I drove a stock 91 Civic DX Sedan for years. I know it's a world of difference from what you guys talk about, but I found that with a Honda you accelerate with the stick, not the throttle, so to speak. What I mean is that if you want to accelerate at all on a highway, you downshift.