So how high will gas go before you make the switch?

[Sentientbydesign]

rn79870

You've got that right!

Too many Americans have never traveled to see for themselves how the rest of the civilized world lives with high gasoline prices. They need to visit cities like Amsterdam, Berlin, Vienna, Bejing, Moscow to see first hand. Many don't realize that GM almost single handly destroyed almost all of the public street car transportation companies and drove them out of business during the 1920's, 30's and 40's because they sold busses.

We need a serious and profound change in this country. Bush cannot get us out of this problem because he and the oil lobby are part of the problem.We need to sharply reduce our consumption and raising prices is already having the needed result. Drilling off shore is a bunch of and even if we did there would be no results for 10 years or so. Why should gas prices be lowered anyway. So we can just return to our wasteful ways? Goodby Hummer, Explorer, Yukon and the rest of the oversize poor mileage SUV's. I won't miss you. On did I forget to mention Fords also?

Telcoman

Why should gas be less? Because our economy was built on lower fuel prices. Hiking fuel prices up only serves to turbo charge the money out of the US into another country's hands and lowers the value of the dollar even more. I mean damned, our dollar is worth the same as the Canuck's dollar (no offense Sean).

With the rising fuel prices, everything will get more expensive and our dollar will also lose value. Combine that with a slow economy and it's a recipe for disaster.

I agree that we are quiet wasteful, but this is NOT the answer. I'd vote for exporting low IQ, worthless, resource draining individuals out of the country and to the bottom of the ocean, before raising gas prices.

[smockers83]

Hiking fuel prices up only serves to turbo charge the money out of the US into another country's hands and lowers the value of the dollar even more.

Half true, half not true. The half that is true is that it sends dollars overseas. The half that isn't true is that higher oil prices doesn't drop the value of the dollar. If this were the case, the Fed would have to be printing more money.

[rn79870]

Drilling off shore is a bunch of and even if we did there would be no results for 10 years or so. Why should gas prices be lowered anyway. So we can just return to our wasteful ways?

Telcoman

That's not true. 10 years ago when GHWB cut out the off shore drilling it started the problem. We can continue to talk about and accomplish nothing. Some experts predict that the opening of the off shore reserves will start the recovery process. Other experts state that the off shore drilling will become productive within 5 years. Others believe that the Alaska national wildlife areas would be even faster.

The problem is that the Dems just want to talk about recovery, and it's too late for talk. Once China and India start increasing their importing of oil we're going to be even further behind in this problem.

Either we begin working on a solution now, or we're going to be paying 12 to 15 bucks a gallon by the time the 2012 cars are here.

[mrsmithGrider]

I dont think i'll ill put anything less than premium as well. I laughed at the comment about the guy with the BMW putting regular in his car. I dont see how anyone with a luxury sports car could skimp on four dollar savings when it could cost them gas milege and performance. And on to our oil crisis which for a lack of better term I will call it. The solution again doesn't lie in drilling more it should lie in finding alternative energy resources. One thing is for sure oil will run out even if we don't see in our lifetime, perhaps it will be our next generation's lifetime....remember them Mr. Bush the ones where leaving our deficit pay for?

[Beancooker]

First off, I don't give a damn about offshore drilling, feds, the value of our dollar, or presidential issues, while I'm in the G forums. You want to chit chat about that, take it to Bob's forum.

Telco, you call it hype, and not necessary to put premium in our cars. I'm sure the car will run on 87.

What is fact, is you will be replacing your knock sensor long before I will.

You will have to change out your plugs before I do.

And believe it or not, when I ran 87 octane for 2 tanks, I averaged 15.4MPG. With 91 I have been getting 19.8.

So at $4.29 a gallon, vs $4.09 a gallon, I spend $4.00 extra to fill up, but get an additional 88 miles out of my tank. So according to my math, it is saving me about $15.04 to use premium.

[smockers83]

Yikes Sorry

[infinitgkid]

To regular?

zer...34726

Telcoman

hmm how about you stop being a 87 octane nazi?

the way i see it is: 93 octane or death

besides... i'm sure the oil on the natural reserves in Alaska should do the job.

Oh wait they won't drill in Alaska? Why? Because of the animals and natural habitat?

Well ladies and gentlemen with many weeks of research and calculating I, Infinitgkid, have come up with a plan that will do a great service to this ball of mud we live on called Earth.

If we drill in Alaska we will get the oil to keep our nation's energy needs under control. But, what if we kill Bambi and all the animals in the process of drilling? Good! Because Bambi is played out, and we can use the animals as food for the hungry people in our nation; plus the drilling can open up more jobs for the poor. Also! when we plow over the trees n' stuff there will be rare plants that we could have never found that could cure cancer, AIDS, and this growing plague amongst women called a "period".

So I conclude by saying that drilling in the natural habitat located in Alaska we will put a stop to this nation's growing energy needs, feed the hungry, give jobs to the jobless and heal the unhealable... Thats killing 4 birds with one stone... and for those Halo 3 fanboys out there... OVERKILL!!

Thank you for your time...

lol they should put this reply in one of the NICO databases

[SVTCOBRA]

hmm how about you stop being a 87 octane nazi?

Telcoman is here to get us to think before we spend...not a bad idea.401K is a great idea!! Future will be upon you before you know it!!

Manual says 87 is OK in Sedans. Manual says Prem. only in Coupes.

A lot of folks are reading Telcoman's preaching on 87 and comparing it to their coupe....apples to oranges.

Telcoman's Sedan is a 6MT.Based on my experience of owning TWO pathfinder 4x4's (one AT, one 5MT), I could use a lower octane in the 5MT.

My AT Sedan pings on 87.There is a good chance a 6MT Sedan doesn't ping, especially if you are light footed as Telcoman.

my 2 cents.

[telcoman]

hmm how about you stop being a 87 octane nazi?

the way i see it is: 93 octane or death

besides... i'm sure the oil on the natural reserves in Alaska should do the job.

So I conclude by saying that drilling in the natural habitat located in Alaska we will put a stop to this nation's growing energy needs, feed the hungry, give jobs to the jobless and heal the unhealable... Thats killing 4 birds with one stone... and for those Halo 3 fanboys out there... OVERKILL!!

infinitigkid

Sorry my post got you all fired up but I'm just offering an alternative opinion in regards to the use of gasoline in our G's. Keep in mind that the profit margin on 93 is much greater than the margin on regular 87 octane. Of course the oil and automobile companies want you to use it so they can make more money. The oil company executives and automobile company executives sit on each others board of directors. They are just overpaid whores that want as much money that they can extract from you as they can.

The current price of a barrel of oil is determined on a world wide market based upon supply and demand along with related world wide political factors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06...ml?hp

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/bu...story

We in the United States need to reduce our demand and look for alternative energy sources other than fossel fuels. Just as China raised their prices yesterday to reduce their demand, our government should be doing the same. We cannot drill our way out of this problem because we don't have the necessary drilling rigs and it would take ten years or more before we would see perhaps a few hundred thousand barrels of additional oil. Not enough to make any kind of a difference.You are free to use 93 octane if you like but I suspect that when you have a wife, kids, a mortgage, Dr, high utility bills, etc don't jump off a bridge when you can no longer afford to fill your G with 93. Stick around and just use regular.

Telcoman
Modified by telcoman at 4:53 AM 6/20/2008

[TeflonG35]

premium for me.

[rn79870]

hmm how about you stop being a 87 octane nazi?

Calling another member a nazi is bad form and poor netiquette. The G forums are really above that. If this was my forum, I'd have more to say about it.

[joe603]

Bob, it wasn't that bad...He didn't call Telco a nazi per-say IMO. Just his thought process on using 87 octane (and 401k's).

[G_whizz]

[QUOTE=telcoman]The current price of a barrel of oil is determined on a world wide market based upon supply and demand [QUOTE=telcoman]

Nope...not true, the demand for oil has not changed in 2 years. And if it has, it's only been EXTREMELY marginal. It's "speculators" that are driving up the $$$ of oil, that is what's causing the higher prices. And you get can bet THOSE people have a personal interest in the oil biz.

Also, Infinitikid... play nice. No name calling, especially to my Dad!!

[telcoman]

The current price of a barrel of oil is determined on a world wide market based upon supply and demand G_whizz

Sources and citations please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

http://maps.unomaha.edu/Peters....html

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s...FAULT

When I visited China in 2005 all lights & electricity go off automatically when you leave your hotel room. The AC power is activated by your room card key.One of the things we will begin to see in the US as fuel prices rise will be similar conservation to force demand down. The days of ignoring consumption in the United States are over.

Rising prices are going to force many more automobile owners to not only use regular gasoline, but perhaps force many to give up driving altogether because they can no longer afford it.

Telcoman


Modified by telcoman at 7:43 AM 6/20/2008

[rn79870]

Mod Quad, feel free to move this to the "other" forum if you feel it is getting too political.

[rn79870]

telcoman, most of the electricity in the US is generated by coal. We have too much coal. I just wonder if we export any of it or if it would be too expensive for a country to import it.

[smockers83]

The price of oil is not based solely on supply and demand. If that were the case, the price of crude could drop as much as 25% from today's prices. Speculation goes into the price and the price of gas is roughly based on 75% of the price of crude. On the other side, demand has risen in the past couple of years world wide while it has actually fallen in the US as of late. Sources? Check out this thread on oil.

zerothread/343565

[G_whizz]

I'll look for it because I can't remember exactly where I read it.

But the fact is... You can't predict what prices are going to be even in the short-to-medium term. Unless you have a flawless handle on supply and demand. That requires thorough and reliable data—which does not exist!

China has grown into the world's second-biggest oil consumer after the U.S., can pose a problem. They DO NOT report demand.This leaves analyst to basically guess from data on production, trade, and inventories.There are thousands of so-called "teapot" refineries all over China that are technically illegal and therefore left out of China's official statistics. China seems to be creating a strategic stockpile of oil, but has never acknowledged it.

This can also seriously affect "supply and demand" statistics...

Anyways, I'll see if I can find that report, even though, as stated earlier. Most if not all are far from accurate.

[rn79870]

I think I've posted this before, it's the story of a gallon of gas lying beneath the sand over there in the middle east. Stop me if you've heard this before...

Our little gallon of gas just got sucked up by a drilling rig and put in a pipeline along with all the other impurities in goo. Right now, that gallon is worth about 5 cents.

It's piped to a large ship for a trip to the US. While it's in transit, it is sold and resold by commodity brokers. When it hits America, it's now worth $3.30 (including shipment fees)

Add 12 cents per gallon for refining.Add 45 cents per gallon for fed. taxes.And add 4 to 6 cents for transport and the station owner's profit.Anyway, that should equal about 4 bucks a gallon.

Now add to that local taxes, etc. And, sorry to say, gas is $4.80 a gallon for premium here - so the 3.30 is not closer to 4.00.

BUT, I've found a station that sells it for $2.25 a gallon, 91 octane. Unlimited supply - every day. Only problem, you have to wait 1 1/2 hours to get back across the border. Yes, it's Pemex gas. If I lived a little closer to Tijuana, I'd be running 91 octane pemex.

[Sentientbydesign]

BUT, I've found a station that sells it for $2.25 a gallon, 91 octane. Unlimited supply - every day. Only problem, you have to wait 1 1/2 hours to get back across the border. Yes, it's Pemex gas. If I lived a little closer to Tijuana, I'd be running 91 octane pemex.

My father and the rest of my family warned me about using Pemex gas. He has dual citizenship btw if that tells you anything. Their gas doesn't quite match up to ours. I don't have specifics, but I was told to fill up on this side and only buy what I needed to get back to this side while over there.

ALSO, the gas isn't $2.25/gallon, Bob. I was down there 2 weeks ago. I paid over 3 dollars per gallon (estimating 4 litres per gallon) for premium. Only diesel is really cheap over there. In the $2.25 range.

Check this out Telco

http://www.signonsandiego.com/....html

[infinitgkid]

infinitigkid

Sorry my post got you all fired up but I'm just offering an alternative opinion in regards to the use of gasoline in our G's. Keep in mind that the profit margin on 93 is much greater than the margin on regular 87 octane. Of course the oil and automobile companies want you to use it so they can make more money. The oil company executives and automobile company executives sit on each others board of directors. They are just overpaid whores that want as much money that they can extract from you as they can.

The current price of a barrel of oil is determined on a world wide market based upon supply and demand along with related world wide political factors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06...ml?hp

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/bu...story

We in the United States need to reduce our demand and look for alternative energy sources other than fossel fuels. Just as China raised their prices yesterday to reduce their demand, our government should be doing the same. We cannot drill our way out of this problem because we don't have the necessary drilling rigs and it would take ten years or more before we would see perhaps a few hundred thousand barrels of additional oil. Not enough to make any kind of a difference.You are free to use 93 octane if you like but I suspect that when you have a wife, kids, a mortgage, Dr, high utility bills, etc don't jump off a bridge when you can no longer afford to fill your G with 93. Stick around and just use regular.

Telcoman

Modified by telcoman at 4:53 AM 6/20/2008

lol valid point, and you're right i don't have a wife, kids, mortgage and all those wonderful things in life... yet...

but i do see what your sayin, so kudos to you my friend...

[Kendahl]

No, I'm not going to run regular in my G37S. According to the manual, premium is required, not suggested. A mix of premium and regular is acceptable if you can't find premium, but you can't use the car's full performance. On my way home every day, there is a long hill with a stop sign at the bottom. I accelerate up the hill at full throttle, shifting at about 6k rpm, until I reach the 60 mph speed limit. There is no way I could do that on regular gas. After spending $42k on my car, I'd rather save money some other way such as brown bagging my lunch. (Car or no car, I wouldn't spend $200 on sun glasses.)

Around here, premium usually costs about $4.03 per gallon. I just filled up for $3.73 per gallon. First, I use an oil company credit card (Sinclair Master Card) that gives me a 5% discount at their stations. Second, I found an out-of-the-way station that caters to farmers and local truckers. They are a few cents cheaper than the competition and, after they close at 5 pm, they drop their price another nickel. The grocery store we patronize, part of the Kroger chain, gives out gas discount coupons good at Kwik Shops. (I don't use them because Sinclair gives me a better deal.) There are bargains out there; you just have to look for them.

Last summer, as I was shopping for what became my G37S, I gave considerable thought to the impact of gas mileage on the cost of ownership. For the level of performance I wanted, the most economical choices delivered 25 mpg (average of EPA city and highway ratings). Examples were BMW 3 series, Porsche Cayman and Mazda Miata. The least economical was a Porsche 911 Turbo at 18.5 mpg. At $5 per gallon, the difference between high and low amounts to $60 per month. Many people spend more than this on their cell phones and cable or satellite television. At $5 to $10 per day, buying lunch instead of brown bagging costs $100 to $200 per month. The most economical new car I would consider is a Honda Civic coupe which gets 30 mpg. The difference between it and the Porsche Turbo is only $100 per month. The only cars more economical than the Civic are no pleasure to drive. At that point, rather than buy any new car, it would have been cheaper to put $1k or $2k into my 24-year-old Mazda RX-7 even though it only got 20 mpg.

[soul_hfk]

ill pay the extra 40-50 or what ever it is now

[rn79870]

No, I'm not going to run regular in my G37S. According to the manual, premium is required, not suggested. A mix of premium and regular is acceptable if you can't find premium, but you can't use the car's full performance......

Kendah, you and the other G37 owners really don't have the option to run 87. My owners manual is the same as yours, and it clearly states that the G37 can only use a little 87 if the 91 isn't available. The 37 has a .3 or .4 higher compression ratio than the 35, and that's probably the reason for the different reauirement.

[Kendahl]

you and the other G37 owners really don't have the option to run 87.

Agreed. That's why I only run premium, myself, and protest whenever Telcoman proposes a steady diet of regular.

You can get into a bind where you are low on gas and the only stations in range don't carry premium. The manual doesn't go into detail about how much you can dilute your remaining premium with regular. It does tell you to drive gently (to avoid the conditions that cause pinging) until you can fill up with premium.

Last week, on the way back from vacation, I planned a gas stop at a Sinclair station (see 5% discount in my previous post) in a small town on Interstate 80 in western Nebraska. To my surprise, they didn't have premium, just regular and 89 octane E-10. Fortunately, there were other stations in town that did carry premium. But for them, I would have had to run the car on a 50/50 mix of premium and E-10 to get to the next place I knew for sure had premium.

After refueling, we headed north from I-80 to a village called Arnold, Nebraska, to look at the county road they close once a year for the Sandhills Open Road Challenge (www.sorcrace.com). While passing through tiny farm towns, I noticed that most of the stations had only two grades of fuel - 89 octane E-10 and diesel. If you run low out there, your only choices are to stretch your range with E-10 or call a tow truck.

Sooner or later, a G37 owner is going to be low on gas with no premium pumps in range. Can we get an expert to go into detail about how to safely stretch your range with low octane fuel?

[rn79870]

First of all, telcoman's condition is unique. He drives much more conservatively than the average G owner. Second, he drives mostly on flat land. Those are two conditions that are favorable to using a lesser octane fuel. I live in SoCal where the conditions aren't as favorable.

My wife has filled up the G before and put 87 in it by mistake. I noticed no difference on that tank, (it was probably 30%91 and 70% 87 octane overall).If I had a 37, I'd have worried If that had happened though.

[AZhitman]

Again, I say, false economies.

Something that won't get responded to, because the guys advocating 87 octane have never looked at a fuel map or tuned an ECU.

Use whatever you like, but be certain of full disclosure at resale time.

BTW, I made my own Chinese food tonight and saved $21. Which I'll pump into the G tomorrow.

[SVTCOBRA]

First of all, telcoman's condition is unique. He drives much more conservatively than the average G owner. Second, he drives mostly on flat land. Those are two conditions that are favorable to using a lesser octane fuel. I live in SoCal where the conditions aren't as favorable.

My wife has filled up the G before and put 87 in it by mistake. I noticed no difference on that tank, (it was probably 30%91 and 70% 87 octane overall).If I had a 37, I'd have worried If that had happened though.

Agreed!!! PLUS the manual says 87 is OK for SEDAN's. AND, IMHO, you can get away with lower octane in a stick.IMHO, you change gears before putting a load on the engine like in an AT.

Did I mention that we love the coupe!!!!

I put new belts on her and washed the engine this week. With the money I saved doing it myself, I purchased a 3/8 inch Kobalt torque wrench to go with my 1/2 inch Craftsman!!

Also, had NISSAN do an alignment and service the transmission this past Friday.

And, I'll knock $1000 off the asking price on my Cobra to any NICO brother!!

[Kendahl]

My owners manual ... states that the G37 can only use a little 87 if the 91 isn't available.

This morning, I asked my dealer's service department how much low octane regular gas could be safely used in a G37 when premium isn't available. They recommended not going over 30%.

That could make the difference between barely getting to a premium station versus almost getting there. But it isn't much help if you are 100 miles the wrong side of nowhere with the fuel gauge reading "E".