SNOW Is it the tires or the car ?

[PB]

Just tested out my car in the snow and ice,I thought this car would be better on the road considering its wide and heavier than a normal 4 cyl car.But I find that even when i am going very slow, and apply the brakes,the car still is bad driving.I was going very slow during testing on hard packed snow,touched the brakes and the rear slid out side ways,AH?,I really was going slow!,Is it the stock tires or the car??

[bikeman]

Drove is hard pack snow yesterday. The Versa handled very well with the stock Conti tires. At one point, an SUV behind me couldn't make it up a short steep grade that the Versa did without a hitch. Over the next 24-36 hours, we should pick up 8-12" so I'll get a good sense as to how it handles in some deeper stuff. Our street is seldom plowed so it's a good track for testing. So far, I'm pleased with how it handles in the snow. Ice could be a different story but I'm in no hurry to find out.

David

[Scuba Steve]

I have the SL model with ABS, I'm pretty happy with braking on ice and snow covered roads with Stock (Conti tires) Do you have the S or SL model? Because the S model does not have ABS. The S model tends to lock up even in summer. I test drove that S model and hated it. SL ABS is the way to go.

[biggie]

The lack of tire (185 size) and lack of weight (2600lbs or so is very light for a modern 4 cyl) will hurt the snow ability.

If you are really going to be out in snow, I'd get a set of used wider steel wheels (240sx would work, among others) and put snow tires on them to trade them out.

[bikeman]

The lack of tire (185 size) and lack of weight (2600lbs or so is very light for a modern 4 cyl) will hurt the snow ability.

This is contrary to my experience. Here in the great white north, a narrow tire is an asset in snow. The weight of the Versa is fine.

If you are really going to be out in snow, I'd get a set of used wider steel wheels (240sx would work, among others) and put snow tires on them to trade them out.

Cheap steel wheels with snow tires is always a plus. We'll just have to disagree on wider.

David

[BBISHOPPCM]

The tires have a LOT to do with it. And, unfortunately, I am speaking from experience. Just this morning (first storm of the year), I was on my way to work. I live in a mountainous area, As soon as I hit some of the larger hills, I begain having serious problems. The car was not only unable to climb the hill; it was actually SLIDING DOWN THEM!!! So, I was unable to go to work... so I turned around, and made it as far as my driveway... there was no way in hell my car was climbing the driveway. I was able to drive downhill, so I drove a few towns over to get snowtires (the roads to this particular town are all downhill). On my way to buy snow tires, I lost control and slammed into a snowbank. No damage, but the tow cost me $70. I managed to get my tires, and the difference is UNBELIEVABLE.

[gotak]

Get snow tires. Haven't driven my Sentra (it's much heavier then the Versa though...) in the snow with the contiprocontacts but i have with the Gislaved NF5s and it's pretty amazing how much it takes to set the ABS off. And unlike previous experience in other cars with ABS and All-seasons the ABS doesn't go on and keep going for a while. With these winters tires the ABS comes, when push it, for a quick pulse or two then the tires find grip again. It's that much of a difference between winter tires and all-seasons. Basically if you drive carefully with the winter tires you should never feel the ABS going off or the tail slipping out.

Just remember they don't make Winter summer but they do make it possible to get around and avoid trouble with careful driving.

[marleyfan]

I drove all of last winter on the stock Conti's and had no problem at all. I was able to get up hills others were unable to tackle. Whoever said get wider tires for driving in snow doesn't know what they are talking about. I've driven in Canadian winters for 30 years and would not recommend getting wider tires for winter. The stock tires are actually pretty good for winter conditions. I am, however, surprised at at the amount of treadwear in one year on these things. Not sure how it will affect my winter experience this year.

[BBISHOPPCM]

I have never installed snow tires on any of my cars, becuase I was always able to get around without problems. Even in my 2WD Frontier. I used to laugh at all the SUVs in the ditches while I was cruising (at an appropriate speed, mind you) in a 4 door sedan without ABS, without problems. My joy was cut short when I moved to the rural mountain section of NH. The roads are poorly plowed, if ever, and they have a habit of salting snow, turning it into slush, making it worse.... The Versa with stock Conti's did fine on the un-salted hills, but it was no match against some of the curvy, steep hills I see on the way to work. The snow tires made a night-and-day difference, I will never travel in winter without them again.

[AG]

Michelin X-Ice 215 60 R15 are muuuuch better than the stock ones. The car is much more stable too, better in snow and on the ice.

[PB]

Michelin X-Ice 215 60 R15 are muuuuch better than the stock ones. The car is much more stable too, better in snow and on the ice.

I think i will get a set put on the front,my last cars had Hercules tires and they were unreal,Stuck like glue on snow.

[marleyfan]

I wouldn't recommend putting snows only on the front. It gives uneven traction and creates instability and can be very dangerous. Would you run different types of tires front and back in the summer? Didn't think so. They why do it in the winter when control and traction are even more critical?

[MinisterofDOOM]

This is contrary to my experience. Here in the great white north, a narrow tire is an asset in snow.

Yes. Narrow tires are better in snow. Wider tires spread out the weight and "float" on top of the snow more than narrower tires, which limits the tire's traction.

[PB]

On front whee

I wouldn't recommend putting snows only on the front. It gives uneven traction and creates instability and can be very dangerous. Would you run different types of tires front and back in the summer? Didn't think so. They why do it in the winter when control and traction are even more critical?

On front wheel drive i have always put snows just on the front,Why? put them on the back,I feel no difference ,i have tried that, and wasted money.Many put them just on the front if you need traction,That is just a selling gimmick made up by dealers to sell you more tires.When there were rear wheel drive cars years ago,How many cars did you see with the same snows on the front?,There you go,You didnt see any.

[marleyfan]

On front wheeOn front wheel drive i have always put snows just on the front,Why? put them on the back,I feel no difference ,i have tried that, and wasted money.Many put them just on the front if you need traction,That is just a selling gimmick made up by dealers to sell you more tires.When there were rear wheel drive cars years ago,How many cars did you see with the same snows on the front?,There you go,You didnt see any.

Well do what you want but what happened years ago with rear wheel drive cars has no bearing on what we do now. Our knowledge and understanding have improved one would think. Mixing types of tires has never been recommended. It is a well researched fact that mixing types of tires creates instability. This holds true for mixing summer and winter tires. It's not just tire companies trying to get more sales. I know when I'm driving my family I have no problem spending a couple hundred more dollars on 2 more tires to help ensure their safety. Having 4 snows improves cornering and braking significantly. It's just my recomendation for what it's worth

[Kolk1]

Because the S model does not have ABS..

Mine is an S Model with ABS.

[Mutsy]

We had a major snow storm this week here in Quebec. Driving my Altimax Arctic was quite good. My last car was an X-Trail AWD, so I have to change the way I drive my V. The only thing I didn't like is the way ABS is working. It kicks in to early despite agressive tire.

[gotak]

Switching only 1 set of tires instead of both pair is firstly dangerous and 2ndly self defeating in the quest to save cash.

You might not notice any issue driving normally but try an emergency stop or maneuver and you'd wish you have winters on the other set of wheels as well. When you brake it's 4 wheels doing the braking not 2. So the more traction you get from all 4 wheels the faster you can stop. And should you want to swerve do you want your back stepping out or following the front?

As for saving money. If you swap out 1 pair of tires during winter you'd get 1 pair of regular tires that are doing that extra winter duty. Those will wear out before the pair that is sitting in your garage. Then you'd have to replace them sooner. And are you going to say it's ok to run 1 set of summer tires that was spent and 1 set of summer tires that's still ok? Again you are just asking for trouble.

So if you are going to get winter tires suck it up and get 4 tires. There are some very reasonably prices winter tires out there.

[NY.AD.MAN]

I agree with Gotak, but want to take this a step further:

Consider what a Winter tire does:

- In the snow, the winter tire is designed to gain traction where normal tires would spin because of a lower coefficient of friction; allows for more torque.

- The winter tires act like chains for the tires, meaning that they are heavier and have deeper tread, so adding them ONLY to the front means that your rear tires are completely useless as far as braking, handling and stability.

A respectable tire shop will NOT rotate dead tires in the front to the back because a front wheel drive car relies on the rear tires to keep the back end from flailing about - the front tires not only have the power and steering radius, but an individual is much LESS likely to speed or turn hard if they feel the FRONT tires swerving, especially with the popularity hike of drifting and the misunderstanding about ease of control.

- If you do something, spend a little extra money and do it right, or do NOT do it at all. Half-a**ed attempts are dangerous and will only lead to potential accidents or even worse; hitting a pedestrian.

- If for nothing else, think about the people AROUND you. If you crash because you have no control of the back of your car, you could cause heavy property and personal damage!

Moral of the story: Don't do a job half way. If you want winter tires, get 4. If you want two, get NONE. It won't help you like you think it will (just because you've gotten lucky so far, don't think it won't inevitably end in a bad way.)


Modified by NY.AD.MAN at 10:54 PM 12/5/2007

[PB]

For braking fronts do 80% of your braking ,So why are you people worried about having snows on the back?.You pick up a 40kg bag of salt and you toss it in the back trunk.This will give you more weight and improve you braking for the rear tires,If you want,put an other smaller 20 kg bag in,Try it you will like it,Done it for years and never had my A$$ end swing out on snow,actly try going around corners with the bags in,You will see the rear grips better than having snows on the back ,But thats up to you.Spend over $200 for more snows or $10 for salt.I still say the stock tires are garbage period.

[bikeman]

For braking fronts do 80% of your braking

It varies. Lots of factors involved. Sometimes it is 80%. Sometimes it isn't.

,So why are you people worried about having snows on the back?.You pick up a 40kg bag of salt and you toss it in the back trunk.This will give you more weight and improve you braking for the rear tires,If you want,put an other smaller 20 kg bag in,Try it you will like it,Done it for years and never had my A$$ end swing out on snow,actly try going around corners with the bags in,You will see the rear grips better than having snows on the back ,But thats up to you.Spend over $200 for more snows or $10 for salt.I still say the stock tires are garbage period.

Do you have some math or some cites you like to share with us? Weight can effect grip but weight and grip are not synonyms. I expected to see a after your post but evidently you're serious.

David

[Mutsy]

For braking fronts do 80% of your braking ,So why are you people worried about having snows on the back?.You pick up a 40kg bag of salt and you toss it in the back trunk.This will give you more weight and improve you braking for the rear tires,If you want,put an other smaller 20 kg bag in,Try it you will like it,Done it for years and never had my A$$ end swing out on snow,actly try going around corners with the bags in,You will see the rear grips better than having snows on the back ,But thats up to you.Spend over $200 for more snows or $10 for salt.I still say the stock tires are garbage period.

Have you ever tried to wear a sport shoe on the right and a dressed shoe on the left and walk staight???

[gotak]

You also remember that when you brake hard with the weight shift your back becomes unloaded. So that makes your bag of salt a lot less useful. With an unloaded back end on tires that don't grip the ice and snow you can spin. Plus carrying 20kg extra is just going to make you burn more gas. Count that up and the winter tires might not seem such a waste of money.

Anyhow since everyone have seen people spin their front tires on ice. And that's like a whole engine's weight on the front tires. At any rate if you want to put extra weight on the back you can do that even with winter tires and it'll be better then that extra weight on regular all-seasons.

Lot of people have smoked for years without getting cancer but it is advisable to smoke? And for that matter would you buy performance summer tires for your front wheels then cheap tires for the back and put a bag of junk in the back?

[BBISHOPPCM]

Hey, if PB managed to go this long using his methods, whether right or wrong, it's his deal. On the other hand, speaking from experience, his methods may not work for anyone else. MY suggestion is to simply buy four snow tires; odds are, they will last you MANY winters, as you would not be driving on them for more than a few months out of the year. I plan on buying a nice set of Pirellis next spring, and storing the winter tires until needed again.

[equlizer]

I have the SL version with CVT and ABS brakes. I HATE abs brakes. They do no good. I might as well just hold the gas peddal down and go full bore. Yes i am running stock tires and will be getting winter tires soon.

Just wanted to rant that abs SUCKS!! wish i could pull the fuse but, well, ya know

[BBISHOPPCM]

If you're running stock Conti's, the ABS is almost useless when sliding down a steep hill at 30 MPH. If the tires are completely unable to grip the road, the ABS cannot do its job. The two work together as a team; after I installed snow tires, it was a whole new experience. Now, the car stops, and the ABS almost never kicks in... Just try it, you'll see! (snow tires)

[nissantech06]

If you're running stock Conti's, the ABS is almost useless when sliding down a steep hill at 30 MPH. If the tires are completely unable to grip the road, the ABS cannot do its job. The two work together as a team; after I installed snow tires, it was a whole new experience. Now, the car stops, and the ABS almost never kicks in... Just try it, you'll see! (snow tires)

It's a combination of a few things...snow tires wouldn't be necessary if the tires were, say, Michelin or Yokohama or even Bridgestone. Hell my Fuzions grip better in snow than Continentals. The tires are too damn narrow, I mean, come on! 185mm wides on a 15" rim? I realize it's for efficiency but how efficient is your gas mileage if your wheels are constantly spinning? I don't need a mathematical equation to tell me 6000RPMS X 4 wheels slipping = OH CRAP!

The other problem is, yes, the ABS system sucks. In general I have always hated ABS. I realize what it's on the car for and why it's used, but I never have had a car with ABS (3 previous) and I seemed to do just fine.

[NY.AD.MAN]

One set of tires that I highly recommend (for those without rims), are the Michelin Destiny (195 60 R15) because they have just the right mileage, ride quality, improved grip and deep tread for any worries.

They'll last you a long time and are covered by a ridiculous 80K warranty! They run about 100 bucks a pop, but will save you money down the road anyways... I used these on my little brother's Scion xA when I picked him up and ran into some pretty nasty rain, but the Michelin tires held strong and are still the highest rated on tirerack.com...

Personally, the idea of saving money should come into play everywhere else BUT when your safety and the safety of your friends, family and neighbors are at stake. Not to seem too neurotic, I've just had too many friends killed in car accidents because of lousy, under-performing cheap parts!

If anybody wants, I actually have a set of All-Weather Bridgestone tires that I would normally use for winter use, but I'm in GA and they are just sitting in the garage... They come with rims (15" five spoke) and I'd let them go for 400 bucks mounted and balanced. This way, you can save money without going cheap, but in all honesty, even if you buy from your local shops, DO NOT SKIMP OUT!

[bikeman]

The tires are too damn narrow, I mean, come on! 185mm wides on a 15" rim? I realize it's for efficiency but how efficient is your gas mileage if your wheels are constantly spinning? I don't need a mathematical equation to tell me 6000RPMS X 4 wheels slipping = OH CRAP!

We have over a foot of snow and I'm running the Conti's and I'm not slipping. Narrow tires are preferable in snow for many of us. I would be better off with 4 snow tires but that'll have to wait till next winter. You may not "need a mathematical equation" but if ya had one and knew it's parameters and how to interpret them, you'd be more knowledgeable. An equation all by itself is pretty useless to most folks.

David

[PB]

I have used plenty of snows on cars over the years and many work,Including the well known blizzaks,But wear so fast in the winter on pavement its not worth spending the money on them.I just purchased some tires and never ever had a tire that was so good,they are 4 season tires so no need to change up front,try a pair of Nokian WR All-Weather Plus.When you drive on these its like sticky glue in the ice and snow.