small but powerful amps?

[ayjay]

ok i'm lookin into buyin an amp by the end of the summer... needs to be no longer than 14" and no wider than 12" because of my amp rack restrictions... it also needs to put out more than 1400W at 1ohm...

so far i've come up with only 2 amps that would suit my application:

Earthquake PHD2 "Shredder": 2000W RMS @ 4ohms bridged - 11.5" x 10" x 2.5"

MMATS D300HC (modded): 2200W+ RMS @ 1ohms - 12" x 9.5" x 2.2"

any other suggestions?

[AustinSilvia]

that is serious powah! 1400W!!?!??! is that really necessary? is this for that one hcca or somehting else?

[ayjay]

funny you say that... had an Orion HCCA 12" before, but now i'm runnin a Digital Designs 9015 15"... rated at 1000W RMS so just wanna force feed it a few hundred more watts for competitions, burps only of course...

[Rex]

Here's some review info of the Earthquake. Sounds like a good idea for limited use.

And here's the review of the MMATS D300HC. Seems like if you "mod" it to get more power, you might be shortening it's life.

Can't get a few more inches outta that rack?

[ayjay]

no unfortunately... ya i heard bad things about the Shredder... my buddy ran one and apparently he had a "good one" cause it didn't blow up once througout the entire season last year :pface they are known to litterally blow up, single internal 300amp fuse

the mmats can be modded to be stable down to 1ohm, it voids the warranty but i haven't heard of them blowing up as much as the earthquake... and no unfortunately i can't extend the amp rack i was stupid in my design, i should have left more room for bigger amps...

[Rex]

Well, if you can't get any more space on the rack, I'd stay away from the Earthquake, my guess is they're great for dealer demo vehicles. I don't know much about the mmats, so I can't say much, but if it'll fit and you know anyone that's used it, it may be your only option. I'd suggest seeing if any of the old Orion or Phoenix Gold "cheater" amps would fit, as they would/could run to 1/2 and ohm or less .

[Simmsled]

i havent looked up Memphis for a while, I know that they have little powerhouses. I got respect for them after I saw their original "Memphis Belle" amplifier from the late 90's. They make some beefy stuff.

[ayjay]

ya, i got a memphis 16-st200 (100Wx2)... that's what i'm runnin to my components, and if i were to get one of their amps i would probably get a Memphis Mojo (2000W @ 2ohm) cept it's 21 inches long looks like i'll have to go mmats.... BUUUUT

was just lookin at US Amps website and they got a small DE-1000 is a digital amp that puts out 1000W @ 2ohms and is only 11.75" long... so i could get two of those which would be pretty damn tight, cause i got two spots for 13" long amps, i'd just have to relocate my memphis stereo amp to maybe under the passenger seat... this is a possibility :thinker

[whiterps13]

ya, i got a memphis 16-st200 (100Wx2)... that's what i'm runnin to my components, and if i were to get one of their amps i would probably get a Memphis Mojo (2000W @ 2ohm) cept it's 21 inches long looks like i'll have to go mmats.... BUUUUT

was just lookin at US Amps website and they got a small DE-1000 is a digital amp that puts out 1000W @ 2ohms and is only 11.75" long... so i could get two of those which would be pretty damn tight, cause i got two spots for 13" long amps, i'd just have to relocate my memphis stereo amp to maybe under the passenger seat... this is a possibility :thinker

im sorry but you have way too much time on your hands ;]

[MECPInstaller]

jay check out planet audio and my favorite audiobahn:) my 1800watt amp is one ohm stable class d but doesn't fit your measurements its 18 long by 11 wide

[ayjay]

im sorry but you have way too much time on your hands ;]

ya i got the time, if only i had too much money in my wallet

ya man, i know you like your Audiobahn shizz but i'm not into the mainstream stuff... i could get a couple JBL 1200.1's for pretty cheap and i think they would fit, but i don't like JBL... i'm gonna keep my eyes open for more options though, you guys too! if you come across any amp that does more than 1400W and is shorter than 13" in length, then by all means let me know... thanks!

[Chingon]

I'd suggest phoenix gold, or if you can afford it, tarantula.

[ayjay]

hmmm just checked out their website and i couldn't find any pheonix gold that were small and as powerful as the MMATS...

[MECPInstaller]

mmats is definatly a choice they got some ballsy amps one i think that goes up to 3000wrms anyway how much are you wanting to spend on an amp i'll help you shop around oh snap i almost forgot i got a buddy who has a dealers license for American Bass i'll check with him how he can get some of their larger amps for

[MECPInstaller]

zapco, memphis, and if you wanna go all out US amps but they're usually pretty long. And one last thign have you ever heard of a brand called Dragster. The car audio school in toronto i went to all the instructors swore by Dragster products some pretty high class stuff for a decent price. I've never seen them in the US but found out from my instructors that they aren't available in the US, you lucky canadian bastards:) anyway i'll try to find you some infor on them not sure on how big their amps gets and handle, oh their also made in italy if that helps:)

[MECPInstaller]

http://www.dragster.ch

[Chingon]

hmmm just checked out their website and i couldn't find any pheonix gold that were small and as powerful as the MMATS...

The difference with phoenix gold is that their wattage is sustained wattage. The others are rms (rated or something). Many ppl swear by them, check some reviews out, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[Chingon]

you can find some revs. here as well as many other manufs. http://carreview.com/Amplifier....aspx

[ayjay]

The difference with phoenix gold is that their wattage is sustained wattage. The others are rms (rated or something). Many ppl swear by them, check some reviews out, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

ok, i'm sorry but i just gotta point this out to you... key word in this threads subject line is SMALL but powerful amps... i know that pheonix gold makes nice amps, i'm not overlooking that fact, but what is turning me away from them is that they are just too big for my application... oh and RMS stands for CONTINUOUS POWER, the exact same thing as "sustained wattage"...

it's tough to beat the mmats in terms of size to power ratio (12" long 2100W+ rms), and the fact that it runs super cool even under heavy useage is also quite impressive, but i been just lookin for an alternative... Dragster looks pretty cool, but anything worth my while is over 20" long from them :pface my budget is to be able to get a used amp or a new one off ebay for under $500 USD. a modded mmats d300hc is on ebay right now (here ) and i would buy it, cept i can't shell out that kindof cash before i head off to italy for 6 weeks, need as much money as i can keep when i get back, i will most likely buy this amp if i don't find an equally powerful and SMALL alternative...

[AustinSilvia]

i love my jl 500, and it's a great amp and not very large at all, but definitely doesn't push the power you're looking for. it has never overheated, but has shut down because of lack of power going to it (my battery was old). it does push my 2 boston pro 12's VERY well and they sound excellent.lol by the way how many caps will you need to save your alternator? i need a cap just for my jl amps and they total about 1/3 of what you will be looking for power wise (at least number wise)... but than again i mean i haven't personally had experience with mmats. like people sling numbers all over the place with wattage, and no one really knows what the stuff means... you obviously do ayjay, so i mean is mmats amp really that powerful? i can't imagine.for example: the jl 1000 watt mono amp costs $1000...the mmats amp for $1000 puts out 700 watts more than that...i'm a little sceptical... but then again i've never personally had one. my friends did and it seemed like a powerful amp but it blew up on him or something, i don't really know. it went bad, that's all i know really. he had 2 orion 15's on it.... not hcca, but the step below that. soo loud... it was insane... until his amp went out. But at the same time i am pretty sure my jl amp could have made his speakers sound the way they did... easily. anyway, let me know what you think. have you had experience with jl stuff?

[ayjay]

lol by the way how many caps will you need to save your alternator?

well i have heard from many credible sources that caps actually put MORE stress on your alternator, as when your cap discharges, the alternator needs to not only charge your cap, but also feed the amp power at the same time, giving it twice the load... caps are ok depending on the type of music you play, but rock or songs that have fast/continuous bass don't do so well with caps... so i'm sellin my Monster Digicap and getin a better battery and new 120 amp alternator.

[quote=" AustinSilvia the jl 1000 watt mono amp costs $1000...the mmats amp for $1000 puts out 700 watts more than that...[/quote]

yup, i don't know where you got that price for the JL but that's a LOT of money for only a 1000W amp. Hell i can get a 1000W Audison amp for about the same price if not cheaper from a local car audio shop. $500 US for a 2100W+ amp is pretty cheap, but i've heard many good reviews on the mmats, and stuff is cheap as hell on ebay... JL makes nice amps & subs, i respect them, but too big & too mainstream for me, thanks though man

[MECPInstaller]

yeah if you can find the right people you can get mmats pretty cheap i had a buddy i used to work with he got one of the black powdercoated amps(not fully knowledgable about mmats) and it was either 1200 or 1400 rms for like $250.Does anybody know where i could get an alt. upgrade kit or a higher output alt. for nissans i've done alil searchign and turned up nothing back with my buickskylark i could spend 90 bucks on a upgrade kit for my alt that was double wound brushes that took it from 80 amp to 160

[AustinSilvia]

i got the price off of jl's website.ok i have some things to say about caps.basically a capacitor cannot store electricity. there is no known way to store electricity other than in the form of chemical energy such as a battery where the chemical reaction causes electric pressure (voltage). if there were a way to store electricity we would be able to harness the power from a lightning bolt (which by the way is enough power to power a large city such as the city of austin texas for over a year... THAT IS A LOT OF FREAKING POWER!!!!) anyway since there is no way to store power capacitors dont really "discharge." capacitors are made in order to control electical spikes and control the strain on things. there are tons of capacitors within your car. the power that feeds your entire car comes from the battery. the alternator only recharges the battery. now the way capactiors work... i am pretty much sure it is just like the way your ignition coil packs work. see in order for a spark plug to jump a gap and "spark" it need a lot of power. FREAKING TONS OF POWER. much more than your battery can produce. well so a coil pack is basically a setup of coils that will amplify the power by magnetic induction and then by force feeding it through miles (no kidding, actually like 5 miles) of wire about as thick as your hair. all the pressure amplifies the power enough so that when it sends it to the plug the plug will be able to jump the gap and ground out. as far as i know this is the same principal used for capacitors. caps basically crank up the voltage so that when it spikes and draws a lot of power, it doesn't try to draw it from the battery, but instead uses the amplified power from the cap. The battery will not be hurt as much because there is no sudden strain and the alternator will then not be forced to kick on and off and such... it will operate more smoothly. So anyone want to correct any of this? This is a quick explanation, not very in depth, but anyway that's how i understand it all working, so i mean having many caps would just make the alternator work a little harder, but definitely not as hard as having a 1400 watt amp hooked up directly to the battery with no cap involved. by the way "power" is used very generically here... not just for voltage or amperage or wattage or whatever... it's just used for quick explanation. let me know if you find any errors here, or any thing i didn't make clear, i'll try to help.

[AustinSilvia]

mecp... as far as upgrading your alternator... well you could probably just drop another one in as long as all the connections were the same... on a 240sx you can adjust at what place the alternator sits, like it pivots, so you can adjust the tightness of the belt. you may have to modify an alternator to make the connections fit but it shouldn't be that hard. don't quote me on this, but i mean basically they all work pretty much the same now. there are small differences from company to company but you could get another nissan one from a different car and probably do fine with that. i dont know what cars have higher capacity alternators though. not that they aren't out there, i jsut personally dont know which ones have what.

[MECPInstaller]

a capacitor is basically like a quick draining battery. Its contains a foil separated with electrolytic material and a small amount of battery acid. power is being stored inside the cap and the excess power flows past it when a heavy bass note hits the stored power in the cap is released then is almost instantly restored again. so yes the cap does store power but it releases it and restores it in a split second Like the flash of a camera........ I'll gladly break out the good ol MECP study guide and copy it word for word if you like:)

[MECPInstaller]

yeah thats where i wasn't sure if a universal alt could just plop right in but the bad part its located under the dam.n engine is there an easy way to replace it other than pulling the motor out?

[AustinSilvia]

yeah... i mean i was kind of shady on my explanation of caps. i mean like the word "stores" electricity is not correct though. there is no other way of storing electricity other than in the form of chemical energy. electicity is only good as long as there is a pushing force behind it (voltage), and if a cap "stored" energy then there would be energy in it when the system is not running... this is not the case. as soon as your system turns off all of the power within the cap is gone. thus it is not "storing" energy. it is complicated. it is more like building up electrons in order to cope with spikes... the whole coil explanation... well i mean i know it's not magnetic induction and all that that makes caps work... i understand the basic structure and design of a cap, but it performs the same function as a coil pack. like i said before, if there were a way to "store" energy then we would build a large enough cap (or whatever device) to store the energy of a lightning bolt. the only way to store electricity is in the form of chemical energy... like the battery - lead and sulfuric acid, etc.

[AustinSilvia]

the alternator is kind of a pain to deal with. i had to replace my pcv valve recently, and OH BOY... that is a real pain. you have to move the alternator out of the way to get to it... took like 3 hours i think. actually took longer but i wasn't working hard the whole time. anyway so if you dont have access to a lift it will be a major pain in the ***, but if you do then get your car on the lift and access the alternator from underneath.if you can't get a lift then use a jack and jack stands i guess, but it'll be a pain still. your best bet is probably going from the top, or trying to anyway, if you dont have a lift. remove all the intake shrouding, take out the electric fan, and move the radiator piping to get to it.... you'll lose coolant so be prepared to catch it or whatever. if you have a dog, make sure he's not around. anti freeze is sweet and dogs and i'm sure other animals like the taste... but it is quite deadly. that's what i had to do just to replace the damn pcv valve... a $3.00 part. if you have problems ask i might be able to help. no promises though.

[ayjay]

Quote »there is no other way of storing electricity other than in the form of chemical energy. electicity is only good as long as there is a pushing force behind it (voltage), and if a cap "stored" energy then there would be energy in it when the system is not running... this is not the case. as soon as your system turns off all of the power within the cap is gone. thus it is not "storing" energy. it is complicated.[/quote]

actually it does hold/store a charge... in fact if you wanna bet me on this, disconnect your cap from your system and cross the positive and negative terminals together with a screw driver... lets just say there should be plenty of sparks and don't be surprised if the screw driver gets spot welded to one of the terminals :pface

i know this for a fact because my buddy wanted to sell his cap and he didn't know how to discharge it, so he tried grounding it to a mailbox and sparks flew 5 feet in the air... eventually he figured out that he could just attach a computer fan to it and let it drain out that way...

[ayjay]

oh and about upgrading your alternator... there is a shop around here that can rewind your alternator to over double its original current for like $300... the shop specializes only in alternators and electric motors, i'm sure there are places like that near you...