Shoot out at the OK corral, part 2.

[R/T Hemi]

The professor opened the door as the stack of final exams fell from his hands and scattered on the floor. He was late, and of all days, today was the day of the 2 hour final in one of the more difficult courses at this small college in Northern Arizona.
The room was tense with the pressure of the pending final. The students were stressed from endless hours of studying. Some had taken to drinking to relieve the stress, others found solace in drugs. They were the ones who turned the pressure inward, but they weren't the only ones who felt the pressure. There was the other extreem. Those who turned the pressure into frustration, and manifested it outwardly.

One such kid was the skinny kid from Tombstone, named Omar. He'd broken up with his girlfriend the night before and he was still upset over her dumping him. She was in this class too, but today, she was late. She was never late. That upset Omar further. Omar had brought his handgun to school with him today. He wasn't sure why, but it was legal because the Arizona legislature had passed a bill allowing students to carry guns on campus, provided they had a permit to carry a concealed weapon. As he sat down he felt it rub against his side, and it felt good, like morning wood.

As the professor passed out the exams, Oman saw her enter the class. He was filled with rage when he saw her new boyfriend hand her her books. This rage bacame uncontrolable, and Omar stood and charged her yelling obsenities. Her new boyfriend feeling she was in danger, pulled his gun and fired, missing Oman and hitting Marie Gonzales. Beautiful Marie Gonzales. Omar pulled his gun to respond to his threat and a gun fight ensued, with bullets flying through walls hitting innocent people taking exams in neighboring rooms. Other students felling they were in danger started firing at both of the original shooters, who turned and fired back, hitting more innocent people.

Okay, this never happened, (yet) but the stage is set since some nearsighted representatives in a Red state think it's a good idea to have guns on campuses.
link

[stebo0728]

Weak sauce

Guns on campus

Sure its hard to say, but how many would have died at VT a few ago if someone had been packing legally?

Gun laws dont effect anyone but people who follow laws anyway.

Unless the environment is hazardous to gunfire (ie fumes, or other flammable items) then packing legal heat can only help.

[donandal]

Poor Omar.....
his rage was surely justified
....the alternate ending, and other scenes that were cut....
Omar killed his mother prior to going to class that morning...she didn't buy him a new car...
and the new boyfriend was ROTC, expert in firearms, and shot and killed Omar with one bullet,
probably saving the lives of several other students. Surely the life of the professor was saved, as indicated
in the rambling note found in Omar's pocket....
Omar's family has filed a suit against the professor and the university
hahahahahahaha

[R/T Hemi]

And the new boyfriend was tried and convicted of murder for the unjustified homicide. The students, all suffering severe trauma from the event, sought treatment, and of course, sued the college. The college lost the lawsuit and could no longer afford to field a football team. Students abandoned the university for one with a football team, headed to neighboring states (with real football teams) prompting the Arizona legislature to pass an emigration bill making it legal for police officers to profile college students and detain them for attempted emigration.

[AZhitman]

Joke's on you.

No one from Tombstone would be named "Omar".

[donandal]

now that's good stuff
can't stop laughing
you're killin me here !

[stebo0728]

In all seriousness though, R/T, I understand your concern, but to me this falls into the category of making policy based on hypathetics. Could your scenario happen? Sure, milk also has minute traces of feces in it as well, which is allowed by FDA standards. Look at gun crime statistics and you'll see that legally packing people are RARELY involved in gun crime. Can someone snap? Sure, but do you force others to loose their liberties on that off chance? Most gun crime happens intentionally, and it increases the more likely it is that the victims will be unarmed, I think allowing guns to those who qualify makes much more sense than trying to ensure NOONE will have them, because theres just no way to enforce the latter if theres an unlawful person in the mix.

[AZhitman]

And the new boyfriend was tried and convicted of murder for the unjustified homicide.

Nope. Wouldn't happen in your scenario.

You're much better at fictional short stories than you are at interpreting state and Federal law.

[R/T Hemi]

Joke's on you.

No one from Tombstone would be named "Omar".

Dear Students.

We welcome you to Arizona's finest institution of higher education, Thunder Hills. Congratulations for the effort you have expended in making it this to this institution.

This is to advice you of changes in school policy for the coming year. As you're aware, students are allowed to carry concealed firearms to class.

Remember, you carry a 45 only because they don't make a 46.

We understand, carrying a gun is preferable to calling a cop.

We've instituted new appeal policies for grades you may dispute, and ask that you not shoot the professors over poor grades.

Statues and other works of art throughout the campus, as well as traffic control signs should not be used for target practice before or after class. Remember, these things cost money to repair and/or replace.

When shooting, shoot what's available, as long as it's available, until something else becomes available.

Additionally, pending creation of an intermural fast-draw team, we ask that you limit your practice to the athletic field. Please do not leave your expended brass on the field as it damages the lawn mower's blades.

Student health services will have a special line for gun shot wounds. Those who can walk are requested to use the second door and not use the carpeted hallways. Those who can not walk will be collected daily at 6PM, weather permitting.

Gunshot wounds will not be a valid reason for missing class, except for staff.

Please be courteous when discharging your firearm. The sudden noise may startle the quiet enjoyment of the campus, especially those of you carrying 45 caliber weapons.

Additionally, those who wish to carry weapons, must not carry more than 5 loaded clips of ammunition, or more than 200 rounds. We feel that you should be able to hit any threat with 200 rounds, even if you're drunk.

Remember, incoming fire has the right of way.

If you're not shooting', you should be loading'. If you're not loading', you should be moving', if you're not moving', someone's gonna cut your head off and put it on a pedestal.

Remember, if you're expecting trouble, bring your shotgun.

When shooting, shoot all your bullets. Your attacker may survive, but he'll have nothing left to shoot when he takes your gun from you.

Very Truly yours.,

The administration.

[stebo0728]

Dude, are you related to Nancy Pelosi?

Remember, you carry a 45 only because they don't make a 46.

They make a 50, Desert Eagle, packs a whallop too, is that ok?

We understand, carrying a gun is preferable to calling a cop.

For those of us who'd rather not be dead when the lazy a** donut stuffer finally mosies along.

And well the rest was just unaddressable as hyperbole.

[AZhitman]

I'm sure you probably picked on AZ since you're a little slow on the uptake, but here's a list of colleges that currently allow guns to be carried on campus:

Similar proposals are underway in 17 states.

1. Colorado State University: Colorado schools have the option to allow or prohibit guns on campus, and the large CSU in Fort Collins has granted students permission to carry guns since 2003.
2. Dixie State College of Utah: This four-year university in St. George, Utah, allows of-age concealed handgun permit holders — they must be 21 — to carry guns on campus.
3. University of Utah: Located in Salt Lake City, the U of U has a total enrollment of over 29,000, and approved permit holders can carry concealed guns on campus.
4. Utah State University: Another large state school, Utah State is the number one public university in the West — and one that allows students to carry guns.
5. Weber State University: Located in Ogden, UT, Weber State is an attractive choice for nontraditional and traditional students alike, but students can carry guns on its 500-acre Ogden campus.
6. Michigan State University: As more states debate allowing guns on campus, Michigan’s largest state school — one of the largest universities in the country — does allow guns on campus. The ruling isn’t statewide yet, though.
7. Southern Utah University: Cedar City’s SUU offers technical through graduate programs, allowing approved students to carry guns.
8. Blue Ridge Community College: Virginia’s Blue Ridge Community College, a Shenandoah Valley-area school, is a rare East Coast school that allows students to have guns.
9. Utah Valley University: Utah Valley is the second largest institution in the Utah System of Higher Education, and it, too, allows guns on campus.
10. Community College of Denver: Denver’s community college has also chosen to allow guns on campus. The school actually has four campuses scattered throughout the city.

The "Creative Writing" forum hasn't been set up yet. You're welcome to moderate it as soon as it's done.

[heliochrome85]

Joke's on you.

No one from Tombstone would be named "Omar".

thats the damn truth

[bigbadberry3]

I would have never gone to a campus that allowed guns, that would make me nervous as all hell.

[AZhitman]

....must...resist...urge...to state obvious....

[R/T Hemi]

I'm sure you probably picked on AZ since you're a little slow on the uptake, but here's a list of colleges that currently allow guns to be carried on campus:

Similar proposals are underway in 17 states.

1. Colorado State University: Colorado schools have the option to allow or prohibit guns on campus, and the large CSU in Fort Collins has granted students permission to carry guns since 2003.
2. Dixie State College of Utah: This four-year university in St. George, Utah, allows of-age concealed handgun permit holders — they must be 21 — to carry guns on campus.
3. University of Utah: Located in Salt Lake City, the U of U has a total enrollment of over 29,000, and approved permit holders can carry concealed guns on campus.
4. Utah State University: Another large state school, Utah State is the number one public university in the West — and one that allows students to carry guns.
5. Weber State University: Located in Ogden, UT, Weber State is an attractive choice for nontraditional and traditional students alike, but students can carry guns on its 500-acre Ogden campus.
6. Michigan State University: As more states debate allowing guns on campus, Michigan’s largest state school — one of the largest universities in the country — does allow guns on campus. The ruling isn’t statewide yet, though.
7. Southern Utah University: Cedar City’s SUU offers technical through graduate programs, allowing approved students to carry guns.
8. Blue Ridge Community College: Virginia’s Blue Ridge Community College, a Shenandoah Valley-area school, is a rare East Coast school that allows students to have guns.
9. Utah Valley University: Utah Valley is the second largest institution in the Utah System of Higher Education, and it, too, allows guns on campus.
10. Community College of Denver: Denver’s community college has also chosen to allow guns on campus. The school actually has four campuses scattered throughout the city.

The "Creative Writing" forum hasn't been set up yet. You're welcome to moderate it as soon as it's done.

Hum, I can see it now. Freshman gets poor grade.... Freshman demands satisfaction...


Want to get rich? Be the first to manufacture dueling pistols with the ASU crest on the handles.

Greg, you know you're my best friend here, but we have to talk about this selective/creative reading problem you have. I picture you squinting your eyes as you read everyone's posts, turning your head from side to side, and finally responding," Yep, I see it now, it's a dolphin."

[bigbadberry3]

State it please because I'm missing what you'e implying entirely.....

[mattblancarte]

The "Creative Writing" forum hasn't been set up yet. You're welcome to moderate it as soon as it's done.

Okay, this never happened

You, sir, are correct. Do we need to go into this any further?

Could you perhaps write us a short story about the opposite hypothetical occurrence? You know, the one where the student saves everyone and only the "bad guy" gets hurt?

[donandal]

Greg, you know you're my best friend here, but we have to talk about this selective/creative reading problem you have. I picture you squinting your eyes as you read everyone's posts, turning your head from side to side, and finally responding," Yep, I see it now, it's a dolphin."

I must have been squinting my eyes too
I lost you here

[AZhitman]

Greg, you know you're my best friend here, but we have to talk about this selective/creative reading problem you have. I picture you squinting your eyes as you read everyone's posts, turning your head from side to side, and finally responding," Yep, I see it now, it's a dolphin."

Smokin' the good stuff, if you're seeing dolphins.

There's no "selective reading". I comprehend just fine. Your example sucked. Defend your example - don't attack my comprehension.

I get it. You don't want guns on campus. So what? You can't do a damn thing about it. Re-read that. You can't. Here's why:

If I carry concealed, and there's never an incident, you'll never know anyway. And if there IS an incident, I'm happy to take my lumps. Some silly school rule won't matter much to me at that point anyway. You follow?

Feel free to tell us how you'd enforce such a prohibition. I'll be glad to deconstruct that piece-by-piece too.

There's SO many people in this argument who are so afraid of the people who DO follow the rules, and so quick to defend those who DON'T.

NOTE: I don't care about this law one way or the other. It doesn't affect me one bit, because I'm smart enough to know that it doesn't matter.

[AZhitman]

Hum, I can see it now. Freshman gets poor grade.... Freshman demands satisfaction...

Do you pee your pants when you hear a loud noise? Cross the street to avoid making eye contact with a couple thugs? Pull into your garage and click the door closer behind you?

Feel free to live in fear. I choose not to - especially in fear of unrealistic things (and, by "unrealistic", I mean "things that never happened because you made them up in your head").

People with concealed carry permits don't behave in the manner you dredged out of your nightmares.

Likewise, people who use a weapon to bring about change in an academic setting probably don't care much for state laws prohibiting weapons on campus.

I recommend you watch less TV. Go play outside, it's not as scary as you make it out to be.

[R/T Hemi]

What you don't understand here Greg, is time is on my side. Allowing firearms on campus opens the door to problems that might not otherwise happen. I can see a Virginia Tech like shooting resulting in a gun battle with twice the volume of fire. How much of a stretch is that?

Having armed students reashing for their weapons every time a car backfires may be a bit of an overstatement, but like I said, time is on the side of my argument here. It's going to eventually happen because a moment in time merged with a weapon.

My whole point with this satire was to state that Arizona appears to have a legislature who have their heads further up their a** than Washington does. Hell, even California isn't this dumb.

I'd be interested in what the instructors, and the campus police think.

[bigbadberry3]

I was an RA for my college from 2007-2010 and breaking up fights even with the police isn't an easy task.

Being a good person with the right to carry changes very quickly if you're in inebriated.

[stebo0728]

You're attributing thuggery to law abiding citizens, who for the most part, arent thugs. For one, I doubt most college students would even take the time to do what was necessary to be qualified to carry a gun, secondly, those few that would, they arent going to be shooting people for grades.

That pimply faced ham with hair you posted, whats the chance he got that gun legally, or even hazzarded a chance to try and get a conceal permit, or even learn how to use the darn thing.

Your confusing people who should have guns, with people who shouldnt. I dont say just anyone should have a gun, only those trained to use it, and given the proper authority to do so anywhere else but on your silly campus. There will be guns on campus, whether you like it or not, and the harder you make it for the right ones, the easier you make it for the wrong ones.

[AZhitman]

What you don't understand here Greg, is time is on my side.

Logic, however, isn't.

We don't legislate based on what MIGHT happen. See, yu're doing 2 things wrong:

1) You're hoping that somewhere, sometime, your scenario comes true, if only to vindicate your ideas.
2) You're making the silly assumption that a law actually changes anything in real life. It doesn't.

People who concealed carry are ALL AROUND YOU, all the time. They obey the law (which is why you're still here and posting... ).

People who would do harm with a concealed weapon WILL NOT give a damn about your silly law. They don't have anything to lose.

Be honest: You brought up AZ because you heard about it on the news, You didn't do your homework. Admit it.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Hum, I can see it now. Freshman gets poor grade.... Freshman demands satisfaction...

The thing here is the gun will make no difference besides the type of murder weapon. If a person thinks that it is O.K. to murder another person over a bad grade then they will f*** murder that person over the bad grade...and they will use the easiest way possible.


Your argument falls even further when you take into consideration those types of idiots will have a lower percentage of appearing as a student at a University.

[R/T Hemi]

Your argument falls even further when you take into consideration those types of idiots will have a lower percentage of appearing as a student at a University.

The irony burns. VT would have done better with metal detectors than armed students. But according to your logic, it shouldn't have happened.
What's next? Sporting events? Church? The delivery room?

[bigbadberry3]

I still think mixing guns and alcohol is a horrible idea.

[stebo0728]

Again, Ill reiterate, allowing someone who already has the ability to carry a gun anywhere else, to carry on campus does not equate to issuing a 38 special with every algebra or english lit book. The beer heads, there on mom and dads money, pissing their life away, arent going to have conceal permits, or even a gun at all most likely. Or if they have a gun, its under illegal pretenses and whats your silly restriction going to do about that? Nothing. And, I would expect that alot of people who are licensed to conceal, do already carry on campus, but you wouldnt know it.

[bigbadberry3]

I don't think you can make the assumption that people pissing their life away = unlawful citizens.

Having the right to doesn't mean you should. Drama in schools (any schools not just college) is very common and some people, especially those in a drunken state, may not respond well. Having the immediate access to a gun is much more dangerous than if they had left their gun at home because then they would have time to cool off or detox on the ride home.

[mattblancarte]

What's next? Sporting events? Church? The delivery room?

You continually fail to recognize that someone who has the intent to kill will already be in complete disregard of the law.

A law banning concealed carry in a sporting event, church, or delivery room will not stop someone who wants to carry a gun into one of those situations.