Secondary Fuel Supply

Post by **WDRacing** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

Here's a question that only you guys can answer. I'm going for a truly original turbo kit when I start to sell them. I also want to enable everyone to run as much boost as possible for the cheapest amount of money.

My upper stage kits are going to come with a standalone Alcohol Injection Kit. Pretuned for the guys that are nervous about tuning. Each kit will need to be adjusted slightly, but the directions are so easy my grandma could do it.

The other thing I've been toying around with is propane injection. I haven't personally run propane in any of my cars yet. But I've been doing alot of reading on the topic for awhile now. Its extremely easy to tune as well. Plus it lets you run silly boost levels.

Alcohol and Propane are basically the same thing as running an additional injector. Except they burn alot colder then gasoline enabling you to run higher boost without detonation. I'll have a ton of info available for both. I'm leaning towards alcohol right now since I've been using it myself in my Skyline for the last 3 years. But I'm going to play with propane as soon as I get home.

So my question is, are you guys going to be nervous about running alcohol or propane injection?

WD

Post by **fritts** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

I am looking to buy a turbo kit. But will never buy a kit that requires a secondary fuel. To me that just asking for trouble, no matter how safe, what happens to your engine when your supply of alcohol or propane runs out. If I were you I would look at doing a electronic tuning of the extra fuel. As I would rather not run an fmu. I would like an electronic device to add extra fuel. Which is the main reason I'm waiting for the Greddy turbo kit to come out.

Post by **Jays90240SX** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

YEah, why not something like Perfect Power SMT-6i? Already setup to run, and just gets fine tuned on the Dyno.

With Alcohol or Propane, that's just one more thing to fill up and run out of, which I would not be a big fan of.

Just my opinion!

Post by **95_240sx** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

Notice he said Upper stage, that doesnt mean all of his kits will have the secondary injection.

and fritts: Greddy has been talking about a turbo kit for 240's for about what, 3 or 4 years now i think.

Rick

Post by **WDRacing** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

Well the first couple of stgs don't require additional fuel. But your not going to be able to run near as much boost with any ECU tune or piggy back as you will with Alcohol. Thats basically what I'm going for. Why do you think all the available kits only offer up to say 10 psi.

As far as running out of alcohol, you have a low level light. You also should be using a dual stg boost controller. That way your only under high boost when racing.

For another 80+hp, I think the alcohol is well worth a trip to the Home Depot...but I'm sure its not for everyone.

Thats why I asked.

Post by **Red Lightning** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

I thought propane injection is only for diesel engines? Can you really run propane in gasoline engines?

Post by **Jays90240SX** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

Yeah, in that case, you can use Alcohol injection, never really read up on it too too much.

Got any links?

I think propane would be a bit dodgy!

Post by **95_240sx** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

You could hookup the BBQ to it in the pits and make hotdogs for your friends too

Rick

Post by **tylerwal** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

Post by **JESTER** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

WD, I am interested in what you come up with. It would be way outta my league, but I am still interested.

Post by **brotherboost** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

This is my first post so I hope I don't embarress myself. On point; basic alcohol kits are not difficult to set up. All you need are some relays, solenoids/valves, map switchs (adjustable even), and an alcohol friendly pump. Once you get into boost dependent rates of flow/pressure, then it get's a little more complicated. Anywho, though you have to fill a tank, a 2.5 gal reserviour will last quite a while (weeks) and is cheaper than race gas that will allow you to run similar boost levels.

edit: grammer

Post by **cow** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

What would be cool is if you could hook up a knock sensor to dump alcohol if detonation was detected. Of course this might not work if you were already spraying alcohol.

But a nice safety net otherwise.

Post by **95_240sx** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

You know WD, you could start putting Alcohol/propane injection kits together right now and start selling them for people who already have turbos...

Just an idea.

Rick

Post by **WDRacing** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

I've thought about that a few times already Rick. But being as my current car is a Miata, its kinda hard to figure out all the plumbing. I only have 6 months left over here. I'll work out the details when I get home. I'm pretty sure I can rig up some very nice kits. I have some very good idea's for fire suppresion as well. Never can be to safe.

WD

Post by **Syntax360** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

I hate to bring this one back, but i'm researching propane injection, and I was hoping someone could address Red Lighting's post. I've read a few vague things about propane, but most setups seem to be on diesel engines. I was hoping someone could enlighten me a little more about propane vs. alcohol pros and cons and just generally compare the 2 setups (plumbing wise, etc). I took WDRacing's advice on alcohol injection and I love it!

Website · Post by **TurboKA37** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

WD, i am very interested in the alcohol injection and might decide to run it but i dont kno about the propane. i dont like the idea of having a gallon grill tank of propane sitting next to me. i have decided to wait and take a look at ur kits when u get back instead of buy a kit now so we'll be in contact sooner or later

Post by **kevdog240** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

i want your basic turbo kit right now!

Post by **TrunkMonkey** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

WDRacing wrote:But being as my current car is a Miata

sniff...sniff...i smell V8 swap.

I have some very good idea's for fire suppresion as well. Never can be to safe.

this answers my question. alcohol can be handled by just about everyone, but propane...that's another story.

i can't wait to see all the ideas you've got floating around in head come to life.

-demetrius

Post by **WDRacing** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

You and me both, I can't sleep anymore my mind is so busy...always thinking about what is the best way to add fuel or what welder I'm gonna buy or a million other things.

WD

Post by **Syntax360** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

where were u thinking of injecting the propane? into the intake before MAF? I understand how alcohol injection works (thanks WD) but I'm still having trouble grasping the concept of spraying propane. Help!

Post by **WDRacing** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

I'd inject the propane just prior to the TB. Like the alky...I'll hunt down a article and post it for you.

WD

Post by **I am Technoman** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

WD I don’t think it's a good idea to sell propane kits to the public. It’s just a law suit waiting to happen. The alki kit will be much safer and a lot more user friendly and do you think propane will be better than alki? I don’t..

Post by **240marcuSX** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

im excited about your kits WD, alcohol or not.

Post by **WDRacing** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

I'm an alky fan myself...

Post by **JPRempe** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

I am Technoman wrote:WD I don’t think it's a good idea to sell propane kits to the public. It’s just a law suit waiting to happen. The alki kit will be much safer and a lot more user friendly and do you think propane will be better than alki? I don’t..

That's a funny thing to say in a forum of guys/gals like this who do some rather dicey mods...

Post by **Syntax360** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

lol...i'm just curious. I prolly wouldn't ever switch from alcy. to propane. (specially since i found out i have a blown headgasket in my Z :-\ - a sad sad day.)

Post by **I am Technoman** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

Propane just doesn’t seam practical for an every day driving car. A 10 lb tank of this gas could be very dangerous and who knows what could happen in an accident where the tank cracked on the race track or the street. Another issue would be getting the tank filled I know here in FL if you don’t have a certain valve on the tank you will never get it filled.

just my 2 cents......:thinker

Post by **Projex240** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

Yeah--i agree with that--but this sint exactly the place for safe thinking. When you mod the sh*& out of your car--there are all kinds of safety hazzards. Just think about nitrous. Its just as dangerous. Alky is dangersou too.....but there will alwasy be risks.Just know then when you take em is all. And be responsible.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

Nitrous is not as dangerous. It's not flammable. Combined with a fuel, it can make for a hot fire. Its more like oxygen when by itself, it is harmless. Add pure oxygen to a fire and it will burn very hot.

Post by **Tictakman** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:46 pm

the only thing id be worried about is if you run out of the alc before you can refill. that mean u blow the engine? im talking like running out of gas but instead its alch.

Zak

Secondary Fuel Supply

Secondary Fuel Supply

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