S2K, Boxter, Miata, or 370Z 'vert?

[frapjap]

You are correct. Corvettes are a common sight on track days, but not the 'vert version. If you're an enthusiast simply looking for some track days to have fun with your car, a ragtop convertible is gonna cost you more money than a coupe, but for just the first event, in order to get thru tech.

I honestly don't think I have ever seen a 'vette with a roll bar. I bet it looks kinda funny. Targa tops are nice, but open air is really, really awesome. It'd be hard to imagine having a life without owning a convertible having had mine for the past two- three years.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I figured for the price I found mine at (which was in good nick...more or less), I could build it to destroy an S2000.

Destroy at huh? Who are you beating with what and where now? Claims like that are neato but backing it up is much harder.

Yes, destroy. In its current form its on par with an S2000. It depends on the track (+type of race) and the driver at this point.

No, I'm not talking about that gay PAX s***, I'm talking about real world driving. I still have a long, long way to go in this fictitious budget gap to get myself up to the price of the S2000s that were around when I bought my Miata.

[flohtingPoint]

Yes, destroy. In its current form its on par with an S2000. It depends on the track (+type of race) and the driver at this point.

No, I'm not talking about that gay PAX s***, I'm talking about real world driving. I still have a long, long way to go in this fictitious budget gap to get myself up to the price of the S2000s that were around when I bought my Miata.

Cmon man, don't be that guy. You don't know what class, organization, ruleset, or the current competitors you'd be going against in said "S2000 destroyer".  Right now you're being the "big talk" guy that's at every cars and coffee. Either way, the OP is looking for a DD, not a supposed destroyer =)

[AZhitman]

*yawn*

FWIW, I've driven a few S2K's. I'm not impressed by anything that requires being kept 'on boil' to perform.

C5 or Miata, despite what Mr. Andretti says. He can't argue with 50% of that.

Good discussion from people who own both: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/ ... 278/page1/

[gwoods]

*yawn*
FWIW, I've driven a few S2K's. I'm not impressed by anything that requires being kept 'on boil' to perform.

only Hon DUH would have the gall to call it a sports car...

[AZhitman]

They've got their fanbois, that's for sure.

Kinda like an FD. Yeah, yeah, sacrilege, blah blah. I'm sure it's nifty on a larger road course, but I can't get excited about one for short-course or daily driving.

[Bubba1]

I honestly don't think I have ever seen a 'vette with a roll bar. I bet it looks kinda funny. Targa tops are nice, but open air is really, really awesome. It'd be hard to imagine having a life without owning a convertible having had mine for the past two- three years.

I totally agree it's hard to beat a top down drving experience, well, except maybe during a sudden downpour.

[WDRacing]

FWIW, I've driven a few S2K's. I'm not impressed by anything that requires being kept 'on boil' to perform.

THIS^

I've owned a Celica GTS and a Civic SI. No I'm not comparing them the S2000 directly, but they had motors that made crap for torque unless it was over 5000rpm. That's fun for the track...only. It was like driving a car with awful, awful turbo lag. I've only driven the S2000 briefly, it's a nice car, but it has no friggin torque to speak of. AFAIC, they are only good to look at.

A boosted Miata owns a NA S2000 as a daily driver. As far as on the track, if everything is equal, friggin rules, driver and damn organization....blah blah blah, you can build a faster Miata for the same money it takes to simply purchase a stock S2000, was the point James is trying to make. You don't need to be a "professional racer" to understand basic economics.

[WDRacing]

It'd be hard to imagine having a life without owning a convertible having had mine for the past two- three years.

When I was over on Okinawa, I owned a bunch of cars. 2 Skylines, a Lancer even a Civic SI. But the Miata was by an far the funnest car I had the pleasure of driving while over there. It was a car we used to go drive, just to drive.

[krash]

They've got their fanbois, that's for sure.

Kinda like an FD. Yeah, yeah, sacrilege, blah blah. I'm sure it's nifty on a larger road course, but I can't get excited about one for short-course or daily driving.

Honestly, Honda is way more relevant to my interests than Nissan is right now. Look at motorsports. They're involved in freaking everything. From grassroots racing to F1. Yes its fun to make fun of cars with no torque, but Honda is really a company I can get behind.

If you've got the money for an S2000, there is no reason to get a Miata. Heck, the S2000 is damn near being a mid-engined car. And for a 4 cylinder n/a car, it pulls freaking hard. if you're doing road course or auto-x, you can buy an s2000, not touch it, and do very well. Not saying that Miata's suck or anything, far from it. The S2000 is just a better car in every way, in my opinion at least.

[WDRacing]

Honestly, Honda is way more relevant to my interests than Nissan is right now. Look at motorsports. They're involved in freaking everything. From grassroots racing to F1.

Nissan is definitely not in the picture.

Isn't Mazda as involved with motorsports as Honda?

I'm not making fun of Honda for having very limited torque from idle to 5000 rpm, that's just a fact you're going to deal with when you drive the car. As far as buying it from the factory and putting it directly on to the track, the Miata is also a contender directly from the assembly line. It's a very well balanced car.

[Jesda]

I honestly don't think I have ever seen a 'vette with a roll bar. I bet it looks kinda funny. Targa tops are nice, but open air is really, really awesome. It'd be hard to imagine having a life without owning a convertible having had mine for the past two- three years.

I totally agree it's hard to beat a top down drving experience, well, except maybe during a sudden downpour.

Not so bad unless you have a Solstice which requires you to pull over, walk to the back, open the lid, pull the top open, then latch it all together.

Speaking of which, I should look up a Solstice or Sky.

[float_6969]

I voted S2K. In a perfect world, it would be the Boxter, but you're a slave to the dealer, and I like to work on my own stuff.

I like the Z with the top down and if it didn't look so bad with the top up, it would have been my vote.

The Miata is too small for me. I know people my height fit in them all the time, and I can fit too, but it's not COMFORTABLE.

MRS is a typical late model toyota blandmobile. Blah asthetics, blah performance.

If the vette was on the list, I wouldn't have thought about any of the other options. Best performance of the other options, and looks great with the top up and down.

[frapjap]

*yawn*

FWIW, I've driven a few S2K's. I'm not impressed by anything that requires being kept 'on boil' to perform.

C5 or Miata, despite what Mr. Andretti says. He can't argue with 50% of that.

Good discussion from people who own both: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/ ... 278/page1/

You know, I read A LOT of comparisons from searching google, but that one didn't show up in the results. Thanks for the link.

But- I have to ask- as a guy who had a C5 and now has a MazdaSpeed Miata, whats your take?

[WDRacing]

the vette looks great with the top up and down.

Definitely the best looking vert with the top up.

[elwesso]

I'm not sure how much you guys have looked at the Cayman, Boxster, or 911 for that matter, but they're really not that hard to work on. Lots of people work on them themselves, and I don't think you'll be that much more of a slave to the dealer than most other cars. After all, if you can put it together you can take it apart.

The main thing about the Porsche's though is that parts replacements cost 2-3x more that all the other cars on the list, and the boxster/cayman parts aren't really that much different than the 911 either. Actually diagnosing and fixing problems isn't that big of a deal, but the parts replacements are killer, and the reliability leaves much to be desired.

That's part of the reason why I chose my BMW over a Cayman (or 911 for that matter), because performance was about equal but the Porsche parts were way more expensive.

[frapjap]

That's exactly right, Wes. I have no real issue with a Porsche aside from the cost of maintenance parts, especially because you're going to need them. Your M coupe is a hoot to drive, and that wasn't even opening it up on the highway.

Do you ever get bothered by owning such a fast car and not being able to use a lot of its potential legally on the street since so much of its potential is on the track?

[elwesso]

That's exactly right, Wes. I have no real issue with a Porsche aside from the cost of maintenance parts, especially because you're going to need them. Your M coupe is a hoot to drive, and that wasn't even opening it up on the highway.

Do you ever get bothered by owning such a fast car and not being able to use a lot of its potential legally on the street since so much of its potential is on the track?

Honestly, it's not totally useless like the 911 turbo I drove. Blasting through 1st and 2nd is fun, at the top of second you're going around 50-60 (can't remember), so that's pretty easy to keep it legal. On/off ramps are a lot of fun too. Part of the reason that I settled on this car compared to something stupid fast like a 911 turbo was because this car is fast enough to have fun in and not get you in trouble.

Interestingly enough, by and large with the 996 Porsche's, the 911 turbo is a much more reliable car than the N/A versions.

[Kompresshun]

Interestingly enough, by and large with the 996 Porsche's, the 911 turbo is a much more reliable car than the N/A versions.

I've heard this from a lot of 996 owners and I know someone that has owned Porsche's for years. His current 997 Turbo has been super reliable and he's never had to do anything but basic maintenance to it.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Cmon man, don't be that guy. You don't know what class, organization, ruleset, or the current competitors you'd be going against in said "S2000 destroyer".  Right now you're being the "big talk" guy that's at every cars and coffee. Either way, the OP is looking for a DD, not a supposed destroyer =)

I mean, I'm not really talking about classes, organizations, rule sets, etc here. I'm more talking like "hey, I bought this miata for 5 grand instead of that S2000 for 20". That 15 thousand dollar difference affords me to build a car that would be on par with the S2000 in some catagories, and better (or... much better) in others. Plus, modding is half the fun for me.

I guess we just have different benchmarks. You are looking for something that can compete in the respective class/race. I'm looking for fun factor. Smiles per dollar if you will. The "S2000 destroyer" comment just means more smiles per dollar compared to the S2000.

That being said... the OP has a turbo miata that got fastest time of the day at Carlisle.

[AZhitman]

But- I have to ask- as a guy who had a C5 and now has a MazdaSpeed Miata, whats your take?

Two very different types of fun.

The C5 is a snarling, pissed-off, F** YOU car, especially with about $2K in mods. You leave the TCS on not because you're not a skilled driver, but because you can't control the environment, and that car will swap ends with a quickness if you hit oil/wet/gravel/etc. It's actually ALMOST perfect. I say 'almost', because I wish it was a foot or two shorter. It's not a small car, although it acts like one. I'll own another one someday, likely a Z06.

The Miata has nowhere near the power of the C5, of course. Handling is very neutral, in that all four tires seem to break loose at the same time, but not without warning. Its overall dimensions are much more appealing to me (I dislike larger cars). It squirts through traffic without making a scene like the C5, and it flies 'under the radar', allowing you to break the speed limit without drawing as much attention. It's like a playful puppy that pees on the floor when it gets too excited.

Neither car will tolerate crappy pavement well. Both respond beautifully to a good 'track alignment.' Both are totally transformed with about $2K in mods.

Your Miata convinced me to buy the MSM. The choice between the two really comes down to budget. If you want to spend $10K, get the MSM. If you want to spend $20K, get the C5.

[AZhitman]

A boosted Miata owns a NA S2000 as a daily driver. As far as on the track, if everything is equal, friggin rules, driver and damn organization....blah blah blah, you can build a faster Miata for the same money it takes to simply purchase a stock S2000, was the point James is trying to make. You don't need to be a "professional racer" to understand basic economics.

THIS.

I seem to remember a certain DE instructor at Miller Motorsports Park being more than a little pissed off that my supercharged G Coupe and my meager skills were climbing up his tailpipe all damn day. I was a good boy, I never did ask him why I couldn't get a point-by.

It's not my fault he had to brake way earlier than I did.

[frapjap]

It squirts through traffic without making a scene like the C5, and it flies 'under the radar', allowing you to break the speed limit without drawing as much attention. It's like a playful puppy that pees on the floor when it gets too excited.

That's a really good way of putting it.

The only reason I’m even considering what to do is because the stupid horsepower and handling bug has bit me. HARD. I really, really like the car and enjoy driving the hell out of it most days, but after taking test runs in other cars at Carlisle, its hard to not want to buy and own more vehicles just for the sake of having owned and enjoyed them.

Still though, I'll be owning the Miata for a while to come. The current plan is to replace the suspension and bushings and drive the wheels off the Miata until the engine fails or it gets hit (hopefully not the latter) and then buy something else (hence this thread) or build another engine capable of much more power.

Arguments go in favor of either direction, but James had a very good point that is ultimately what I'm after- smiles per dollar is pretty damned important and any of the options can deliver it, but at various degrees of fun and cost. Picking just one is a b****.

[WDRacing]

Smiles per dollar is an excellent description of the emotion most of us are looking for. To me, smiles per dollar are created by torque...gobs of it. I want it from throttle tipin, hence my initial post including, V8 please!

[Bubba1]

I suspect once you sort out your turbo zoom zoom's minor suspension/steering needs, and put on some better tires, you'll be amazed at how much greater that fun car will become.

[elwesso]

I suspect once you sort out your turbo zoom zoom's minor suspension/steering needs, and put on some better tires, you'll be amazed at how much greater that fun car will become.

I agree.. You probably wouldn't have a ton of money into a suspension overhaul, and a weekend worth of work. Just replace EVERYTHING..

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Ray let me know if you're still interested in swapping to my NB suspension. If you want it, it'll probably be the one little push I need to upgrade to coilovers.

All 4 springs and struts- $100 delivered.

[gwoods]

now you have me Miata shopping on craigslist thanks a lot OP

[flohtingPoint]

If you want to spend $20K, get the C5.

My FRC was 17K out the door with 36,000 miles on it. FRC's come stock with FE3 =)

[nissangirl74]

I really, really like the car and enjoy driving the hell out of it most days, but after taking test runs in other cars at Carlisle, its hard to not want to buy and own more vehicles just for the sake of having owned and enjoyed them.

Even if you do decide to buy something different, I hope you keep the Miata. Label it "The Carlisle Car" and drive it down so we can all thrash it around the track...with smiles on our faces.