S13 rb25det Drag setup!

[rb25drag]

I currently am building my 1990 S13 hatch for Drag racing.My current setup:skyline rb25det turbo charged inline 6 engine built to hold 750hp, manual transmission, Stock Ecu, AFC tuner, running 10lbs of boost and Estimated around 400WHP. Havent got it to a DYNO yet.Internals: Stock factory forged Crank, Eagle Rods, Weisco forged pistons, Chromoly rings, ACL Race bearings Rod/main, Bored .020 over, Decked.002, compression raised from stock 8:6 to 9:1 Assembly balanced, 3 layer steel head gasket, ARP Head studs, Head has been re-surfaced and polished, New valves, seals, springs, retainers, Stock cams, HKS bullet proof timing belt, New gaskets from top to bottom. Stock turbo, Stock injectors. 1500$ Cusco Exedy stage 4 race clutch. Custom bent intercooler piping for FMIC, Electronic/manual Boost controller, HKS BOV, Z32 MAF, Walbro fuel pump.

Suspention: Tein lowering springs, Front /Rear strut tower bars, Custom Frame brace, Welded Differential, 17x8 in Front, 26x11.5x17 in rear, Brembo Slotted/Cross drilled Rotors, SS brake lines, Line lock.

My current setup has Went 8:10 @ 89 1/8 mile un-tuned and I was out of the throttle half track due to being sideways. My goal is to have a mid to low 6 sec car.

Im not sure if the RB transmission and the clutch setup is going to work. I need consistency and something that will hold alot of power. I Broke my Axles on my last pass at the drag strip. Im going to get the 1000HP axles and im thinking about doing the 350 turbo transmission swap. I need something I can build boost on the line with. Currently when I launch (5800RPM) it is falling on its face. Also need a good turbo recommendation for a Drag setup. Any information will be helpful.

[lucky7]

uhh, throw your afc 'tuner' in the garbage. get a stand alone.

sounds like a cool car. any pics?

[rb25drag]

Ya I hate the AFC!!!! Im going to get a power FC, New turbo, 800+CC injectors, New intake manifold, Turbo, turbo manifold. Then Ill be able to make some serious power. But its a money thing at the moment. Winter build!!!!!!!

[SeVa-S13]

Needs moar pics.

(You're nowhere near 400hp with the stock turbo btw)

[lucky7]

true, you're probably more realistically around 285whp.

[Darius]

The stock RB25 compression is 9.0:1, not 8.6. Like Lucky said, you're probably around 285 at the flywheel and 250 at the wheels.

What turbo/manifold setup are you planning on running? What are your hp goals?

[lilskyline240]

he actually is probably loosing power right now over a stock rb25 at 10psi. With all that extra room in the cylinder but your not cramming anymore air into it. Just like running a greddy intake manifold with stock turbo. really seems pointless for the money. You need a larger volume of air goin through your motor to make your other mods work correctly

+2 ditch the AFC. standalone time

[Coolwhip]

be prepared to look into a new rear end with larger and stronger output shafts. There have been a few recent nighmares of the R200 29 spine ones braking, even if you have Mazworx axles. If you plan on not slipping the tires your going to putting crazy stress on all the other components.

I guess rule of thumb here would be, "if its stock/factory, upgrade it"

[gawdzilla]

going auto will eliminate a LOT of drivetrain stress and you can probably stick with the stock rear components

[rb25drag]

going auto will eliminate a LOT of drivetrain stress and you can probably stick with the stock rear components

The Axles im looking at is from driveshaftshop.com They make 1000 hp axles. Plus like gawdzilla said im not going to be straining the drive train as hard with the auto coversion. So im not worried alot about the rear end.Here's the thing, My RB stock only ran 4psi!!!! I dont know if someone has changed the wastegate but before the rebuild it was at 4. Most normal Rb's I have read are 7-8 PSI. Now I have turned it up to 10 at which maxed my injectors out. If I try going 11 or 12 it detonates. cannot get enough fuel. My understanding is you can go 14 on stock injectors and turbo!!!!! on a stock internal motor.Aslo my book says compression 8:6 plain...... Like I said im not sure on those numbers just wat the book said, and wat we got out of it at the machine shop when being built.As soon as I get the rear end fixed im going to take it to the Dyno and see wat numbers I am making. Im for sure its over 3, But only one way to see. Im going to Dyno it with the current setup, Then with the new transmission setup to see how much I loose, Then ill take it back to tune it for the peak power.

Anyone have an Ideal of what kind of numbers I can look to get out of it?

[lucky7]

stock turbo? like 310whp...max.

[lilskyline240]

something must be messed up with your car if your detonating at anything over 10psi. Are you sure your on the stock turbo?

[rb25drag]

something must be messed up with your car if your detonating at anything over 10psi. Are you sure your on the stock turbo?

No im not 100% its the stock one. It doesnt give any numbers. All it says is Nissan. The guy I bought the motor from originally before the build said it was a new turbo from nissan. He didnt say if it was bigger or smaller. I assumed it was original size due to everything was stock on it and it all hooked up like factory.

Im looking into a new turbo anyways. Wat is on it is just temporary for a base line adjustment.

I need some advice on wat turbo is going to be the best for my application with my setup. I wanna push at least 22PSi maybe 25 if I can hook!!

[lilskyline240]

i still dont see how you could possibly be over 300hp at 10psi

[rb25drag]

Its 10PSi 15 degree's timing 112 octain racing fuel. .032 spark plug gap. Running number 4 Acdelco cold plugs.

When I was detonating I backed the timing off to 4 degrees and the spark plug gap to .028. I put 100% fuel in it with the AFC and it was still running down to 10.8 on my wideband.

[wawazat8402]

ok, a few points:

1. Octane doesnt create horsepower. You are throwing money in the trash running race fuel on a stock turbo.

2. 10 psi isnt enough to run colder than stock plugs.

3. AC Delco plugs suck.

4. If you add fuel, of course its going to make it run low AFRs. More fuel equals richer mixture.

[smelly240]

you're wrong and a nub on zilvia - and here on nico - you're still wrong (and you're a dreamer that thinks he got some "special" motor -

BTW - something is seriously wrong if you broke axles on the stock turbo - I dont care what tires you're on (and on a stock computer with no friggin antilag/launch control)

you are full of crap - you're effective compression @ 9:1 with 10 psi is 15.12:1

the effective compression for a stock 8.6:1 @ 14 psi is 16.79:1 so there you go - a guy with lower compression and 14psi of boost has a noticeably higher effective compression - and his combustion chaber is bigger since you decked it - you will have unnoticeably more power off boost - like maybe 1 HP - but spooled up - those 14psi stock compression cars will burn you.

you dont know your stuff, and you probably dont have this setup - and you suck at working on cars if you broke axles with a stock RB turbo and no antilag.

The end.

[Fearsome_tea]

Oh Snap! Watch out RB25Drag, There ppl on here that know there stuff and been doing it alot longer before you even knew a RB25 existed.

[rb25drag]

you're wrong and a nub on zilvia - and here on nico - you're still wrong (and you're a dreamer that thinks he got some "special" motor -

BTW - something is seriously wrong if you broke axles on the stock turbo - I dont care what tires you're on (and on a stock computer with no friggin antilag/launch control)

you are full of crap - you're effective compression @ 9:1 with 10 psi is 15.12:1

the effective compression for a stock 8.6:1 @ 14 psi is 16.79:1 so there you go - a guy with lower compression and 14psi of boost has a noticeably higher effective compression - and his combustion chaber is bigger since you decked it - you will have unnoticeably more power off boost - like maybe 1 HP - but spooled up - those 14psi stock compression cars will burn you.

you dont know your stuff, and you probably dont have this setup - and you suck at working on cars if you broke axles with a stock RB turbo and no antilag.

The end.

Dude Get over your self!!!!!!!!! Your not a GOD!!!! More like a pain in the rear!!!!

I can care less if you agree with what I have. If anyone is a Nub it you and your negative comments!!!

You want proof I told ya before quit talking your crap and come to TN and Ill show you a real setup..... I Will bet my life that no one with a stock RB running 14PSI will take me... Plain and simple

Now that Smelly is Stinking up the forum. Does anyone have any real Advice about the setup. And if you don't believe or agree with me just stay off this forum. I didnt ask for Negative comments.

[rb25drag]

Oh Snap! Watch out RB25Drag, There ppl on here that know there stuff and been doing it alot longer before you even knew a RB25 existed.

Well I wish they would comment instead of these Retard wanna bash on everything guys!!!!

Point is I know my setup because I built it from ground up. I know what these guys are running on the track with there High HP cars and Im hanging with them. I also know that my car is not that much lighter than them.

One your not going to see a car with less than 300HP running a mid 7 to high 8 1/8 mile. Sorry not going to happen.

Two I have not seen a stock RB run anything lower than an 8.40 1/8mile.

Three It really doesnt matter how much power im running right now because the entire setup is fixing to change.

Four I dont understand why this Smelly240 is cocking and attitude with me other than that he is full of

So Mr. Smelly........ Since your a God on the RB. Wat is a 700HP setup on the RB???????

[rb25drag]

ok, a few points:

1. Octane doesnt create horsepower. You are throwing money in the trash running race fuel on a stock turbo.

2. 10 psi isnt enough to run colder than stock plugs.

3. AC Delco plugs suck.

4. If you add fuel, of course its going to make it run low AFRs. More fuel equals richer mixture.

I assure you Octain does add power!!!!!!!!!!

Stock plugs was detonating on anything over 8PSI. Thats why I changed to cold and now no problems. Other than running out of injectors to push fuel.

AC Delco plugs work great!!!! Never had a problem

My fault on the numbers. 10.8 is wat im running currently on 10. When I turned it up to 11-12 and added fuel I couldnt get it to run any richer than 11.6 @ 4500 rpm's and it would start detonating.

[Fearsome_tea]

Look all there saying is a staock 25 turbine will not make that kind a power so you must have a bigger than stock turbine. I am guessing some small BB or its been know that ppl modify it. At that PSI the stock 25 turbine is way out of it proficency and blowing nothing but hot air. Not to mention that the ceramic blades probly dont like the high EGT. Now if you need proof ie a dyno sheet, I can post them up. That will prove only that the stock 25 turbine will produce less power by simply turning up that boost above .8. Now If you can varify that your turbine is stock and that you are pushing 400, please by all means I would like to see it. What kind of turbine do you want up grade to?

Oh and higher octane does not add more power. On a stock 25 ECU (or most any other modern ECU's for that matter) it uses these two little microphones known as knock sensors. The ecu then can add timming or take it away. The higher the octane the less knock the more timming it will run. But the amount of power deffer is barely noticable.

I have a PFC. Its a stupid computer in a sense cos it does the some thing every time. It does not make correction on its own. when I run lower octane the knock is higher than when I run with a higher octane. Thus my car was tune with highoku.
Modified by Fearsome_tea at 5:40 AM 9/27/2007

[rb25drag]

Look all there saying is a staock 25 turbing will not make that kind a power so you must have a bigger than stock turbine. The stock 25 turbine is way out of it proficency and blowing nothing but hot air. Not to mention that the ceramic blades probly dont like the high EGT. Now if you need proof ie a dyno sheet, I can post them up. That will prove only that the stock 25 turbine will produce less power by simply turning up that boost above .8. Now If you can varify that your turbine is stock and that you are pushing 400, please by all means I would like to see it. What kind of turbine do you want up grade to?

Im taking the car to the dyno as soon as I can get a rear end in it. Then Ill post my numbers.

Im not sure on the turbo. I was needing some suggestions.... I plan on making between 6-750HP. But I dont need a monster turbo thats going to drag me down.

[rb25drag]

So wat your saying is no matter wat I set the timing to the ECU is going to overide it due to the amount of knock created? I have the knock sensor hooked up through my AFC. Wouldnt that override the ECU?

[Fearsome_tea]

No, basically the apexi AFC tricks the ECU by telling it that there is more or less air coming in then there really is. Thus changing the fuel. It alters the air flow sensers' signal to the ecu.

[lilskyline240]

One your not going to see a car with less than 300HP running a mid 7 to high 8 1/8 mile. Sorry not going to happen.

Two I have not seen a stock RB run anything lower than an 8.40 1/8mile.

Four I dont understand why this Smelly240 is cocking and attitude with me other than that he is full of

So Mr. Smelly........ Since your a God on the RB. Wat is a 700HP setup on the RB???????

idc if you say you built your car from the ground up. If you did, your bound to have pics of it. cuz i dont know one person that does a full motor build and doesnt take pics of it. I mean at least you gotta have a pic of the block with brand new pistons in it? there is absolutely NO way you are makin more than 320whp. sorry. but its not possible. not on the stock rb25 turbo.

secondly your theory bout a 300hp car not bein able eto do 8's in teh 1/8th is false too. My buddy has a 230whp All motor honda runnin 10's in the quarter.

third, octane doesnt give you HP, it allow you to push your motor harder (advanced timing, more boost) before detonation occurs

fourth, you must have Bad spark problem if your stock plugs were detonating at 8psi on the stock turbo

fifth. AC delco plugs are cheap pieces of ****. you build your entire motor and cheap out on plugs?

sixth ditch you damn AFC and get a real tuning computer

lastly smelly240 seems to know more than you know. You claim your car is SOOOOO fast. its the same thing mustang owners say. Its the torque. Rb's make torque. You may Feel ungodly fast compared to a 400hp SR/CA, but a 400hp sr/Ca would blow you away

And if you think your makin anything over 320whp with stock injectors, your completely mistaken. Aint gunna happen unless your running some crazy high fuel pressure. which your car wouldnt idle at all

[Carl H]

ok, this thread is chock full of misinformation and insults...stop it.

1)octane rating DOES NOT MAKE POWER, it is a measure of KNOCK RESISTANCE. the higher the octane rating the 'harder' it is to ignite the charge thus you actualy loose power on a stock ecu because you have to crank timing to make up for the lost flamability.

2)detonation shouldnt be present at all if the base timing has been properly set at 15* the stock 25 ecu runs so filthy rich that there is no way they can detonate.

3)ANY maf interceptor is a bad idea for any car that has more than just an intake and exhaust, they bend the maf curve so much that it can actualy INCREASE timing while you are 'leaning it out' so if you are at 30% correction on the safc you're shoving mad timing down the engines throat.

4) stock cr is 9:1 for a r33 rb25. period. rb20 and 26 are 8.5:1...your decked head and thicker hg are proly a bit under 9:1 but still close to it, no way of knowing for sure unless you cc the head and know the crushed hg thickness as well as the piston specs.

play nice and this thread stays open (this applies to all) else it gets closed and purged.there is a diffrence between education and bantering, try not to do the latter but rather point out faults and help lead in the correct direction.

[rb25drag]

http://viewmorepics.myspace.co...56864

Here is the link to my build.

[ryan15]

Although I dont agree with all the thing this guy says his setup is sick as hell, IMO and really your only tuning option is PFC eprom is out of the question. BUt like you stated earlier you plan on getting a PFC in the future. I totally disagree with you having 400hp sorry. 270-300 if your lucky.

I guess you 1/8th mile sounds legit, mine was 8.8 on stock rb20det with bolt ons fmic/ TBE stock boost, you could pull a mid to high 12`s in the 1/4 like that with slicks IMO, but thats about it. But thats it, you do have 35 more hp then me it makes a difference, bot to mention alot more torque.

Ryan

[smelly240]

guessing at 400HP on a turbo that CANNOT SUPPORT over a low 300 crank* HP, no matter your motor is, is just dumb. The amount of power you can make is definatly limited by the size of the turbocharger and the craptastic stock exh manifold on a RB25...

If you want 700HP get a turbo that will make that - like a GT4088R... You know absolutely nothing if you think you'll get 700HP out of smaller.

An AFC isnt a proper device for tuning a car... making small adjustments - maybe.

The other thing is - if you have a RB25 there are very few people that can work with the stock ecu - best1tuning.com can...

haltech will be an option you'll want to look at.

If you get a computer and fuel - and a better turbo, then you can make more power - but you dont make over low 300s now.