S13 Limits?

[gema]

Hey guys.

My rich, reasonably belligerant Uncle made a remark the other day that caused me great distress:

"If you want to buy electronics, go to Japan. If you want to buy a car, go to Germany."

This is in regards to my showing him my S13. He recently acquired a Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG. Quite a car indeed. Is it possible (at all) to destroy his stock E55 with my certainly not stock S13? I'm planning on a LOT of modifications to do it. What engine should I start from, and is it even possible? Thanks, and this should be one FUN project.

[Stuntman240]

rb25det, with a decent ammount of engine and suspension work.

[leftovercrizack]

Street or drag? Ever been to Hampstead?

[gema]

My goal is to make my S13 into a fabulous drifting machine that is also capable of smoking his E55. Is it feasible to beat him using the SR20DET Redtop?

[Onizuka]

it will be nearly imposible to beat a car like that in a strait line with out turbo. Ask him to come out to a local SCCA solo II event and race him, see how a luxury car weighing more than 3700+ pounds stands up against a light weight, very well balance car in the curves

[rudee023]

Now THAT is a challenge. Aren't they like 469 HP stock? Yeah it's probably heavy as hell but that thing has got to have some big brass ones. Plus, I like the commercial:D

[D1SR240]

with enough money and knowladge anything is possible

[gema]

Oh, I'll be up for some turbocharged goodness. I am not afraid of NOS, either. Let's just say....I'm determined.

[lbrowne]

Just because its a 4 door sedan, don't let that fool you. I'm not current on the handling specs of that particular car but just because its 3500+ pounds doesn't mean it can't throw out a beating in the twisties.

You need more power, and lots of it. Any sort of straight away at all and he'll gain every inch and then some back that you may put on him....which I doubt will happen in the first place

Get workin under the hood and surprise him!

(it will take quite a bit...)

[Guffed]

I've seen 240's run 11's on the track and thats not even fully fully built. If you think about it though, you can never have everything on your car, its kind of endless you know? But anyways, yes, it is possible to have more performance than that car if your s13 is fully built.

[trpower7]

I'd say you'll need about 8 grand alone worth of parts, if not more. And I gaurentee you can't do all the labor yourself with out a hell of a lot of time, and I assume you're in school and probably don't have that time. So I don't know where you'll acquire 8 grand for parts, or the time to do it. You might want to bow to your uncle, at least for awhile, that E55 is damned near the pinnacle of under $100,000 car-dom.

[90ka24de]

i've seen a s13 with a sr20det run 13 flat with just a few mods (head gasket, intercooler,downpipe, fuel pump, and some other thing) nothing major and boosting 17. those E55 runs 13.6 13.7 only i think

[nomuken]

if you give an SR20DET enough boost to produce 400bhp, you will smoke the E55. the S13 is a very light car, power alone doesn't cut it, it's the power/weight ratio that matters. while it's true that the best cars are usually european, the japanese have been aspiring to european standards for a long time and have some amazing automobiles to show for it. i've seen S13s that put down 700bhp at the wheels do time attack laps on Tsukuba in under a minute (no stock AMG can acheive that)

for the amount of money an E55 costs you can build an S13/S14/S15 that will kill not only stock Mercs, but also Beemers, Porsches and most Ferraris.

p.s. what's good for Tsukuba is good for the Nurburgring

[90ka24de]

btw that sr s13 had 235 to the wheels

[hadokenny]

If i am not mistaken, that car is the fastest mercedes on the street as of now...But i think You should have a chance if u put in an RB25, tune it to around 450+ rwhp and do some suspension work. German cars have crazy top end power.

I will definately give u props if u can show ur uncle whats up. My dad is kinda like ur uncle...loves german cars and look down on japanese cars.

[WingsNThangs]

Quote »"If you want to buy electronics, go to Japan. If you want to buy a car, go to Germany." [/quote] Amen to that.

You can mod a 240SX as fast or faster than a German car, but it will never match up to the refinement and stability of one in stock form. Benzes are solid.

As for electronics, Japan makes the world's finest. But leave the mechanics to the Germans. Sure Japanese cars are generally better bang for buck, but German cars are simply better bang.

For reference, my opinion is formulated from personal years of experience with Honda, Nissan, Inifiniti, Toyota, and 3 older Benzes.

[gema]

So I'm saving up for the all-popular engine swap...do I start with an SR20DET redtop, or save a little more and get the RB25DET? I know my car will not be as solid as his, nor as luxurious (though I do intend to redo the interior with black leather racing seats and some nice new carpeting, and a great stereo), but in the end I will still SMOKE him, then remind him that he paid an extra seventy thousand dollars for a nicer interior, antilock brakes, a few extra features, and the Mercedes Benz emblems. That's when it'll be really funny =D Let me know what engine to buy, I'm socking away money as fast as I can!!

[droptopsilvia]

If i am not mistaken, that car is the fastest mercedes on the street as of now

CLK-GTR? but i guess that doesn't really count considering the price.wait til the new sl600 v-12 twinturbo comes out.as far as that car(e55 amg) in the twisties its a german car made to drive on the autobahn and through the mountainous german country side. need I say more?

i'd bet stock 4 stock it could definatley take a 240 in the turns.regardless of its weight disadvantage. theres nothing like a german crafted automobile.

[droptopsilvia]

and it should for 100,000$$$$

[ZenKid_S14]

hehe, leather racing seats.....sounds funny. leather = very slippery.

[gema]

I mean leather seats crafted to hold you in place...I'm not going to throw some bright red SPARCO seats in there. I plan on merging class with function in the interior. I just have to find the right seats first =D Hopefully non-slippery...suede maybe? I need to know what engine to start from, guys!!!

[nomuken]

Quote »do I start with an SR20DET redtop, or save a little more and get the RB25DET? I[/quote] i'd go with the SR20, it's lighter than the RB25 and can easily produce 400hp, more if you throw some serious money at it, plus it's a pain to swap an RB25 into an S13.

Quote »but in the end I will still SMOKE him, then remind him that he paid an extra seventy thousand dollars for a nicer interior, antilock brakes, a few extra features, and the Mercedes Benz emblems.[/quote] haha! that's the right attitude

BTW those emblems are quite significant, they represent many years of car building expertise (over 100 years?)

[gema]

=D

Thanks for the support...I figured the SR20DET would be a better platform to start from. Anyways, they're cheaper! I seriously cannot wait to see his face after I tear the sweet bejesus out of the car he considers "perfect." I wonder what I could do the the S13 if I put that extra 70k into it? Yikes...scary thought!

[WingsNThangs]

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but someone should speak on the Germans behalf on a biased non-German forum...

then remind him that he paid an extra seventy thousand dollars for a nicer interior, antilock brakes, a few extra features, and the Mercedes Benz emblems.

People pay an extra 5 figures because they are ballers. They buy Benzes not to smoke someone in the 1/4 mile, but to show they they are wealthier. That car is his show of wealth. People with those kinds of cars dont care about getting beaten by drag cars and ricers, as those are a waste of attention. They would rather be focusing on getting to their job (that probably pays 6+ figures)in style. Your uncle is probably a very successful man, and he dishes out the extra $ for reputation, not performance.

I plan on merging class with function in the interior.

The class of a Japanese car modded in any way will always be far far FAR behind the class of a German car. I guess you can dream of showing him up, but this is the harsh reality of the situation.

As far as seats go, look into stock RSX leather bucket seats, maybe you can get them retrofitted. They are very nice.

[dareo]

Since he seems to be rollin' with lots of money, as soon as you do beat him in a race, he'll mod his car and once again beat you. Then you'll have to swap out the SR20, and put in a fully built RB25DET with standalone management to regain the speed crown.

[p00t]

in the end I will still SMOKE him, then remind him that he paid an extra seventy thousand dollars for a nicer interior, antilock brakes, a few extra features, and the Mercedes Benz emblems. That's when it'll be really funny =D Let me know what engine to buy, I'm socking away money as fast as I can!!

this is turning into one expensive joke :cwm27

[Onizuka]

Since he seems to be rollin' with lots of money, as soon as you do beat him in a race, he'll mod his car and once again beat you. Then you'll have to swap out the SR20, and put in a fully built RB25DET with standalone management to regain the speed crown.

1) i really doubt his uncle would void his warrenty to beat his relative

2) you dont really need a RB25DET "fully built with standalone managment" to have alot of power. Do a search for "539hp", "SR20DET" and "stock bottom end" to find out why. There have been one or two 400+ hp CA18DET's on this board even.

I dont see why the concencus is that the germans make the best cars on the planet. have any of you seen this site? http://www.burtmanindustries.com/q45/q45.html Its japanese, its ultra reliable, its fast, its sexy and its $40,000 less. For another $10,000 it would be running circles around a E55.

[dareo]

Yeah i'vee ven seen the 600-700hp Garage Paddy CA18DET coupe, you can have a lotta power in them and SRs.

But 2.5 liters and 6 cylinders=way more potential than an SR20.

If german cars are so well made and engineered, who needs that warranty anyway?

[Wuss]

Quote »"If you want to buy electronics, go to Japan. If you want to buy a car, go to Germany."[/quote]I think you, and everyone else is misinterpreting his statement.

It sounds like he's talking about the overall experience of owning a car, not just about how fast or how much power a car can put out.

In fact, i'm fairly sure that's exactly what he's talking about, not horspower numbers.

If that's the case, I can definately vouch for that. German cars, and most european cars in general, are just put together better, period. They have a totally different design and engineering philosophy then the japanese. It's the small things, like not using cheap plastic for the interior trim, or making sure that all the joints where the panels meet are air tight.

I like my 240sx, and my parents own a J30T as well as a Lexus RX330, but even at that level, it doesn't compare to german engineering.

[nlzmo400r]

well since no one has thrown up any specifics, here it goes : 2oo2 mercedes E55: SOHC 3valves/cyl v8- 476hp and 516ft lbs of tq5spd automatic RWD 4o45lbs dry weightUnit Steel frame4849mm long/ 1295mm in height/2845mm wheelbase/1822mm widefront brakes: 14.2 inch internally vented w/ABS, power assist, SBC, ESPRear brakes: 13.o inch, same as frontrims/tires: F-18x8.o R- 18x9.osuspension: F-4 link multi link w/ active Air suspension unitRear- multi link active air suspension unito-6omph: 4.5 seconds1/4 mile: 12.7sec@ 117mph

In Road and Track's o-1oo-o comparison, this car outran the audi S4 and they quoted 'This car would easily out run a corvette zo6 from a redlight' Now thats power for you