S&P downgrades U.S. debt

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themadscientist
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/ ... 8944.shtml
(CBS/AP)

Credit rating agency Standard & Poor's says it has downgraded the United States' credit rating for the first time in the history of the ratings.

The credit rating agency says that it is cutting the country's top AAA rating by one notch to AA-plus. The credit agency said late Friday that it is making the move because the deficit reduction plan passed by Congress on Tuesday did not go far enough to stabilize the country's debt situation.
So, we have been running up our country's credit cards for so long and only making the minimum payments while continuing our frivolous spending. Just like if you and I did it, the country's credit score just went down.


You can expect the Democrats to blame Republicans and the Republicans to blame Democrats, but they are all guilty of of playing fast and loose with OUR MONEY for a very long time. For the past couple of years we have heard Washington suggest that debt doesn't matter. Well, gents, it does matter. Some of my fellow Americans might buy that sack of s***, but people who are paying any sort of attention know what that smell is and those with skin in the game just covered up.

If you have read my financial comments in the past you have heard me explain that our money has value only because we agree that it does. It is based upon nothing more than confidence. Well today there is a dramatic announcement about the state of the market's confidence in us.

Monday markets are going to be a bloodbath. The strength of the dollar against foreign currencies will likely get hit hard. Gold should shoot through the roof as it owes nobody any money and has no nationality. The shock waves might bring our economy to a complete stop. That last part is an if. The power of the American public to delude itself continues to shock me and while the signs of rising water are easily evident and many seek lifeboats there will still be a large contingent of people who trust the talking heads, are blindly optimistic or just stupid. They will join the band in a final tune as the ship slips under the water.

Here's the part to remember, people. Those people on TV telling you it's going to be all right: the Politicians, the CEOs, the investment bankers, they have their lifevests under their suits. They see what I see, they are making moves to cover their asses for when the music stops and they NEED you to stay ignorant as long as possible.

Don't believe their BS! They are not concerned with your welfare. Look around! Ask yourself if what they say matches what you see. You are running out of time to cover your a** people. I wish you luck because this late in the game very much of your success will depend upon coincidental fortune. :sad:


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f*** Washington idiots.

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themadscientist
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We allow them to do what they do by voting them in and not removing them, and/or not being involved. If they are allowed to suck it's because we suck.

S13_love
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Reverend D21 wrote:f**king Washington idiots.
This. :frown:

Ummm...is there any particular reason why they announced this on a Friday? Seems kind of odd to me at least... :gotme

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bigbadberry3
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Reverend D21 wrote:f**king Washington idiots.
You are correct sir!

Can someone give me a legit reason why gold is worth anything? Only reason I can come up with is for electronics.

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RCA
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Thank you for this thread. People who might not follow the news or finance won't know how serious this is. The US treasury notes are the life blood of financial securities and now investors will lose confidence. It's definitely a downward spiral.
As far as who is to blame; this isn't a short term issue. We have been in the red for decades. Every great civilization has crumbled due to financial negligence and the US isn't any different. Then again most countries are and have been in the red for quite some time.
themadscientist wrote:The shock waves might bring our economy to a complete stop.
I think this is over kill but it could be the beginning of the end. I can't for the life of me figure out why these ratings agencies haven't downgraded US credit earlier. I think they are 6 years too late.
Last edited by RCA on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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themadscientist
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bigbadberry3 wrote:
Reverend D21 wrote:f**king Washington idiots.
You are correct sir!

Can someone give me a legit reason why gold is worth anything? Only reason I can come up with is for electronics.
I often find myself at odds with other metal bugs because your question is spot on. They will go on and on about the implied value of fiat currency and then treat gold as if it is something magical. It isn't. It's just pretty metal. Yes, it is kind of rare, but it's only real tangible utility is in electronics where it's conductivity and non-reactive characteristics are valuable. Beyond that, the value of it is very much a mental construct. The reason it's a haven, however, is because it is so widely seen as a "precious metal" this means it is less vulnerable to devaluation because more people agree it's worth something.

Anything that has value over and above tangible utility should be scrutinized for the likelihood that the implied worth is a stable implication. Gold and silver has more people subscribed to their implied value than do any fiat currencies.

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S13_love wrote: Ummm...is there any particular reason why they announced this on a Friday? Seems kind of odd to me at least... :gotme
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"we feel its better to take action on Fridays... statistics show its less confrontational that way". :gotme

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I'm glad it happened - hope it's a wake up call for the American public to hold the the kids in DC accountable for all the grabassing they've been doing for years.... well, that's my pipe dream anyway.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Ok question for the economists and business majors: What do you think this will do to airline tickets? Should I blitz and buy my s*** tonight, or wait until Monday?

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themadscientist
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They tend to raise rates when fuel costs go up and I would not expect that this week.

S13_love
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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote: http://www.leapcms.com/images/office-space-bobs.jpg

"we feel its better to take action on Fridays... statistics show its less confrontational that way". :gotme
I'll go with that. :chuckle:

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Jesda
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S13_love wrote: Ummm...is there any particular reason why they announced this on a Friday? Seems kind of odd to me at least... :gotme
Rebecca Black is trolling America

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Jookmasta
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in regards to the airline tickets, it honestly depends on when your flight is. if it's next week or 2 weeks from now, it won't matter. otherwise, the rule of thumb is usually the earlier the better. and i agree with the original post, this is the wake up call to the Americans that clearly the people in washington have no business being there. as for jesda, rebecca black will always win...............lol.

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RCA
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Just in case you guys forgot...

The "terrorists" won.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Strategy
On 11 March 2005, Al-Quds Al-Arabi published extracts from Saif al-Adel's document "Al Quaeda's Strategy to the Year 2020".[46][47] Abdel Bari Atwan summarizes this strategy as comprising five stages to rid the umma from all forms of oppression:
  • Provoke the United States into invading a Muslim country.

    Incite local resistance to occupying forces.

    Expand the conflict to neighboring countries, and engage the U.S. in a long war of attrition.

    Convert al-Qaeda into an ideology and set of operating principles that can be loosely franchised in other countries without requiring direct command and control, and via these franchises incite attacks against countries allied with the U.S. until they withdraw from the conflict, as happened with the 2004 Madrid train bombings, but which did not have the same effect with the 7 July 2005 London bombings.

    The U.S. economy will finally collapse under the strain of too many engagements in too many places, making the world wide economic system which is depended by the U.S. also collapse leading to global political instability, which in turn leads to a global jihad led by Al-Qaeda and a Wahhabi Caliphate will then be installed across the world.
Atwan also noted, regarding the collapse of the U.S., "If this sounds far-fetched, it is sobering to consider that this virtually describes the downfall of the Soviet Union."

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Jesda
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This debt will be paid down through inflation. Expect your cost of living to rise dramatically while your income remains stagnant.

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So you're saying they're gonna turn what they've been doing to us all along up a notch? Right, Jesda?

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Solar_Runner
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Dennis Miller on Leno last night: "f*** 'em, we ain't payin'"

there, debt solved.....

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themadscientist
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I actually did a thought exercise where I asked that same question. I'll see if I can find it.

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I'm going to go out and max my credit cards. Then, I'm going to vote for my credit card company to be mandated to give me even more credit. Then I'm gonna spend that as fast as I can too....all while paying the minimum.

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themadscientist
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Already did some alchemy last night. I turned plastic into gold. In the spirit of our government I did a little "deficit spending" of my own. ;)

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themadscientist wrote:Already did some alchemy last night. I turned plastic into gold. In the spirit of our government I did a little "deficit spending" of my own. ;)
LOL, But will you follow the same spirit and let your grandchildren pay it back with interest?

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If inflation hits like I expect it to, debt incurred at today's dollar value will be next to nothing in tomorrow's dollars wher the commodities purchased will be worth quite a bit more than they were when I aquired them. Instead of handing my kids debt I will be handing them a map to my stash and the ability to sustain themselves. :dblthumb:

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I've always wanted to buy into some commodities like gold in order to hold what meager wealth I have, but at this point I feel that the price of gold is temporarily inflated, and if I bought into it the price would drop in the coming years.

I still have 3 semesters left of college and my banker aunt suggested I use student loans for all my tuition and housing expenses, and keep what physical cash I already have. This seems like a sound strategy if USD faces massive inflation, but then my physical cash takes a hit too. I'm stuck, I never learned what to do in this situation in school.

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themadscientist
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University Park, Penn State? I did a management course there, nice area.

I would suggest you try to own as many real things as possible, not buy with loans. Being a student you must be strapped for cash. The one thing that you have going for you if you pick the right major is education and skills. If you have valuable skills you will make money. I don't know that I would saddle myself with a buch of debt, but you need to do what I did. Look at the world, ask some hard questions.

What exactly is going on?
You have to understand the situation before you can start to read it and pick a plan.

What scenarios most benefit the rich and powerful?
Let's face it. They control the game. they are not going to allow things to occur that harm them. Put yourself in their shoes, imagine you can influence markets and monetary policy just like they can and see what you would do. That's probably what they would do.

What will happen to regular people in this scenario?
This is going to give you an idea of where you are vulnerable so you can emphasis effort there. We regular people can't influence s***, we can only hope to avoid becoming victims of the machinations of the aforementioned group.

How can I profit from this?
It may seem strange to think about such things after my last statement, but in every crisis is opportunity for those that can take advantage of it. In your scenario, what increases in value? Do you do that? Can you get there in time to be "the guy."

For example. I was a business major. I was sitting in class and we were discussing cybersecurity and the explosion in the industry. I didn't sit there and go "that's interesting." I changed my major and I am more confident in my being in demand with that degree in two years than the one i was previously pursuing.

For another example. In my scenario the dollar spirals down in value. People use the term "put your money where your mouth is." I did. I maxed out my credit card and pulled a loan from my 401K to buy gold and silver and moved the remainder of the assets off the table into a holding account that doesn't earn a bunch of interest, but isn't in danger when the markets swing wild.

It takes big hairy balls to do that, but I trust my analysis and I do have big ones, they twist sometimes too, but that's another thread. My metal play has already doubled in value and when the dow is done the plummet and the dust settles I will look at the market and start asking those hard questions again. Based upon the scenario I foresee I will go all in with the investments I expect to explode. I'm not a p**** investor and I'm not afraid to take a risk.

I may wind up having made the wrong play, but the realities say I am at least in the ballpark and that is better than most. I'll survive regardless. Remember those crucial skills? I possess many and I ain't afraid to take off this suit and pick up a hammer again. Me and mine will eat. I stand to profit from the crisis at best, but I take nothing for granted.

You need to do your own analysis, play out various scenarios in your head and see which one is most likely. Chart the safests path through that potential future and get ready. I wish you good fortune and favorable winds. :luck:

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Imagine that a Black president ruins our credit!*

(*I'm not racist just playing the stereo type game)

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bigbadberry3 wrote:Can someone give me a legit reason why gold is worth anything? Only reason I can come up with is for electronics.
The main reason is because of jewelry, but if you want to get technical, Gold, along with other rare metals like Platinum and Uranium, is only made for about a second or two in the outer layers of a star that is at least 9 times the mass of our sun. When it goes supernova, the pressure wave causes the outer layers to exceed 100 million degrees during the expansion period, and that causes most of the the heavy metal elements in the periodic table after Iron to form through nuclear fusion.

:)

All the world's gold, mined or not, could fit inside 3 Olympic sized swimming pools. That's a little more than 1/10 of a percent of the entire mass of the earth's crust.

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Dattebayo wrote:
bigbadberry3 wrote:Can someone give me a legit reason why gold is worth anything? Only reason I can come up with is for electronics.
The main reason is because of jewelry, but if you want to get technical, Gold, along with other rare metals like Platinum and Uranium, is only made for about a second or two in the outer layers of a star that is at least 9 times the mass of our sun. When it goes supernova, the pressure wave causes the outer layers to exceed 100 million degrees during the expansion period, and that causes most of the the heavy metal elements in the periodic table after Iron to form through nuclear fusion.

:)

All the world's gold, mined or not, could fit inside 3 Olympic sized swimming pools. That's a little more than 1/10 of a percent of the entire mass of the earth's crust.
There's no way gold is wanted for jewelry. That's like saying diamonds are wanted for jewelry....

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FYI, a standard white dwarf star has a slightly-less-than-earth-sized diamond in it's inner core.


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