Rubbing Sound After Front Rotor and Pad Replacement

[Swampthing777]

Hello All,

I'm a long time forum lurker and I finally decided to register. I also wanted to thank all of you for your EXTREMELY helpful posts, videos and DIY guides. Its been a real lifesaver for me not to mention money saver.

I do have a problem which I have researched on this forum extensively but have not been able to find a SPECIFIC answer to.

There is a soft sounding (though loud) rubbing sound coming from my front wheels which started after I replaced the front rotors and pads (This sound is sort of like what you hear when a ceiling fan is slightly out of whack as it rotates at its slow speed).

FYI, I used Autozone's DURALAST Brand, "CMAX" ceramic pads as well as the DURALAST rotors. The sound appears to be more pronounced on the front right side, though I can hear the sound on both sides when I drive by a close fence, wall or building.

The vehicle is a 2010 Rogue SL 2wd w/ 70K miles. This is my Wife's car and although I can't recall for sure, I believe this is the original set of brakes. (She does a lot of highway driving so they are not used heavily).

Here is what I have done/checked to date:

1. I made sure to grease the caliper bracket slider pins using a silicone based lube (Sil-Glyde from NAPA). The caliper appears to slide with ease on both the front wheels). I also used PERMATEX copper based anti-sieze lube on the back of the pads, the pad tabs that lock into the retainer clips and a small amount on the back of the retainer clips as well.

2. I've checked the dust shield to make sure that there it wasn't bent and it is NOT making contact with the rotor (There is about 1/2" of space between it and the rotor).

3. I used a caliper spreader and the old pad to push the piston back flush with its housing. However, the caliper piston boot appears to have some fluid in it as I cannot push it back into place on either of the calipers, though the problem is more pronounced on the front right side. (BTW, I HAVE researched this issue on the forum and I have looked at IMSTRICKEN's posts on the topic, and it was helpful).

4. Initially, I placed the stock brake pad shim and shim cover onto the back of the DL CMAX pad. However, after I noticed the rubbing sound I took both of them off so that the stock shim (which is affixed to the CMAX Pad) was the only shim/shim cover that is on the pad. This is the "Wild card" element in this equation that I am not sure has any bearing on the matter but I did it so I'm mentioning it. My initial logic in placing the stock shim and cover on was that I wanted to ensure proper force distribution and diminish the risk of cracking the pad. As it happens the CMAX pads have a thin rubber backing and so initially it did not appear to be rigid enough to go in without reinforcement. After I noticed this rubbing sound issue, I more carefully inspected the backing of the CMAX pads and noticed that the rubber appears to be merely a top layer and that a thin strip of metal lies underneath.

After removing the stock cover and shim, the noise was still there and MAY have diminished somewhat but if it had it was almost imperceptible.

5. I found the NICO Club post on proper bedding and followed it. I still noticed the sound though it DID seem to be EVER so slightly quieter. (Might have been my wishful thinking though).

6. I have tried to rotate the wheel while it is jacked up to see what was binding and I DO notice one particular spot in the rotation of the right side rotor that seems to make the sound most. Also, the sound I hear while driving is one that pulsates to a degree, just as one would expect from a slightly out of square rotor. However, the sound exists even at the points in the rotor rotation that don't seem to be out of square.

7. While at speed I notice no pulling at all and the car has been recently aligned. Further, I notice no pulling during braking. There is also no discernible shudder or other vibration while at speed or while braking.

8. After my pad bedding, there was some fade and somewhat diminished braking effectiveness as well as an acrid odor coming from the pads. Also they were hot to the touch but not smoking.

The reason I posted this is because my particular symptoms do not appear to have been addressed on previous posts:

IMHO, there are only SO many reasons why this can be happening. To me it seems most likely that the issue is related to the pads making an undue amount of contact with the rotor, but I am not sure if the contact I am describing is "normal" and something that will go away in the next few hundred miles or not. It appears to me that the caliper piston seal/boot is faulty and that the caliper should be either replaced or rebuilt, but I cannot figure out if the problem I am having is a result of this.

My Wife has been giving me the stink eye because I told her we could save a bundle of $ by taking care if it ourselves and now she's giving me the old "I told you so" look. (Marriage…can't live without it…but sometimes can't live with it either…;). I don't think my decision to do it myself was wrong as I have a decent mechanical ability and I followed the various videos and instructions TO THE T. I have re-checked all of the "how to's" and re-checked all of the components to ensure that everything is where it should be.

I do concede the likely necessity to have the rotors re-machined…but at the moment I am trying to rule out all other issues as I accept this will probably need to be done and plan on having it done.

Any input would be most welcome as I'm up against a brick wall on this.

[ImStricken06]

bleed your brakes. it sounds like the pad is maintaining a contact with your rotor. this could go away, as the pad wears a bit. its common. its also common to happen when you make turns for it to get louder.

[Swampthing777]

Imstricken,

You're spot on with your observation that the sound increases while turning. I hear ya on the bleeding idea though my brake fluid level is just below the. "Max" line. Does that change your opinion at all?

[ImStricken06]

99.99% It could also just be that the pads and rotors are so fresh that they actually touch, barely, even without the brake pedal being pressed in. I had that with mine and it took a couple days/few hundred miles just to get them worn in enough to not graze each other. my recent brake job needed almost 1000miles before my braking was 100% effective on the right/passenger side. i thought for sure i had a bad new caliper. but then after about 900miles, it caught up.

regarding the brake fluid:
brake fluid needs to be drained every 2 years. its extremely hygroscopic; which means its absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. as its ages, it reduces its ability to withstand the heat that braking creates. plus, the moisture it sucks out of the atmosphere starts to boil; creating air pockets, and steam. that causes not only loss of pressure under extreme braking but it can causes the pressure in the system to rise on its own; enough pressure to gently push against the piston, which result in the pad gently touching the rotor. that, then will cause even more heat to be generated. its a no-win situation.
furthermore, the moisture and steam will cause the piston to start rusting. that rust will start causing the piston to snag on the inside seal. a snagged piston - doesn't apply equal pressure upon the brake pad = uneven wear.

when you put the piston back into the caliper, did the boot go in perfectly fine (without any bulges?)

[ImStricken06]

3. I used a caliper spreader and the old pad to push the piston back flush with its housing. However, the caliper piston boot appears to have some fluid in it as I cannot push it back into place on either of the calipers, though the problem is more pronounced on the front right side. (BTW, I HAVE researched this issue on the forum and I have looked at IMSTRICKEN's posts on the topic, and it was helpful).

crap, just saw this. this answered my prior question. dude, i hate to tell you = that caliper is done. you have the dreaded typical rogue caliper issue. they gotta go asap. if you pinched the boot between the new pad & the piston, its gonna tear, allowing fluid out & dirt in. i went through that BS with both my front calipers.

see vid: 7:50 into the video
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMMyS6igo1Y[/youtube]

[Swampthing777]

IMSTRICKEN,

I read you and your logic seems sound on the caliper replacement issue.

As an update, I took the Rogue for a 60 mile round trip this evening at highway speed (65-75 MPH) while stopping to check the rotor temp every few miles. The rotors did not get unduly warm and were even somewhat cool after extended highway driving.

The noise has diminished by 80% after this trip though it does still appear to be present.

Braking feel is ok…at highway speeds I notice more firmness in the pedal than before, but its as if it is there are two stages in the pedal. I say this because after I push through the initial firmness, the normal brake pedal play is back and the pedal travels further down. Around town I do not notice this first, firmer stage of play in the pedal.

I will order the calipers ASAP. There seem to be several options including remanufactured AC Delcos as well as Cardone. Each seems to be in the $55-$70 range once the core is returned. I see that the usual auto parts stores can order them but none seem to have them in stock.

Is there a particular brand and supplier that you suggest?

[ImStricken06]

i got (if i remember correctly) centric caliper for the left and a cardone for the right from 2 different sellers on ebay. you can read a lot here: fail-went-to-replace-my-brake-pads-bad- ... 77487.html
here is an image from a Centric box i got

just a little peace of mine for the wife: too many, and i really mean this: TO MANY ROGUE OWNERS GO THROUGH THIS. this happens to everyone. even those who get all of the work done at the dealer. the ones that DIY, end up paying less. call your dealer, and see how a new caliper alone is well over $300 per caliper. now calculate $90/hour = and you are easily into $1200 for a full front brake job (new calipers, rotors, pads, fluid, labor). i paid less than $200 total by doing all of the work to replace both front calipers, rotors, pads, and fluid drain.

[darylzero]

Hey Swampthing when I replaced my rotors and brakes I had to replace my 2 front calipers also. I got re-manufactured Centic ones from Rockauto.com
These were the part #'s 14142157 (141.42157)
14142158 (141.42158)

I also got the brake hardware kit, Raybestos H15898A

[Swampthing777]

Thanks for the tip darvlzero!