Room constraints for t25 turbo?

[sorrowfulkiller]

I still trying to figure out what turbo I want to use when I get a 240, I was originally planning a gt2876r with a t3 turbine housing... then I starting thinking why do I need 400 hp? So now I'm thinking a 325-350 hp goal and I'm looking at the ATP gt2876r .73 trim and the special t25 with a tial 44mm v-band on the housing itself.

My questions are...

Would the exhuast housing fit in that area if I made a 90 degree bend off the v-band flange to connect to the wastegate?

Do you need to get rid of the Air conditioning to run a t25 bottom mount turbo?

[sorrowfulkiller]

or would a t25 flange be fine in the 350 HP range without choking the KA?

Another thought I had was to just weld on a flange off of the collector of the bottom mount manifold to hold a tial 44mm. But I'm not sure how much space there is right there so idk if it'd be possible

[sorrowfulkiller]

...well since no one knows... does anyone have a picture showing how close the turbine housing is to the frame/body on a t25 manifold?

[480sx]

The t25 is the smallest possible framed turbo you could fit on your car without being a retard. So, your question and thread is a little ridiculous. You can fit a t25 anywhere you could fit any turbo.

350 is pushing a T2(not t25...) flange. You will need every bit of that 44mm wg. In addition, turbine housings with a built in external wastegate flange kinda suck. Screws up flow to the turbine.

[sorrowfulkiller]

The t25 is the smallest possible framed turbo you could fit on your car without being a retard. So, your question and thread is a little ridiculous. You can fit a t25 anywhere you could fit any turbo.

350 is pushing a T2(not t25...) flange. You will need every bit of that 44mm wg. In addition, turbine housings with a built in external wastegate flange kinda suck. Screws up flow to the turbine.

I wouldn't say they suck... they are designed better than internal wastegates... but not by much.

In any case, you're saying I should just go with a welded on v-band flange from the collector then? Of course it wouldn't just be a straight shot out of the side... more like a curved pipe to flange, I've read maximum boost quite a bit

I think a solid 325-350 hp should be sufficient for what my plans are... and I know my build will get me there, considering I'm planning for 1000cc injectors, aem ems, a gt2876r, v-mount and e85 (I love the stuff, high octane and my car smells great ha ha)

oh btw the question was if I would be able to fit the tial directly on a turbine housing with a v-band flange without hitting anything xD doesn't matter too much though

[nelson8708]

Go with a T3 turbo.....GT30r T/S wont have much lag, which is the only reason i could see some one trying to make 325whp out of a t2.

[480sx]

I wouldn't say they suck... they are designed better than internal wastegates... but not by much.

No really, they do suck. They arnt in mass production for a reason. They are only used when there is really no other option for fitting a wastegate system.

When you disrupt the gas flow going to the turbine in the throat of the turbo, you create.. for lack of a better word, 'gas cavitations'. These disrupt the even flow of gas to the turbine and has a negative effect in every aspect on how the turbo spools and makes power.

In any case, you're saying I should just go with a welded on v-band flange from the collector then? Of course it wouldn't just be a straight shot out of the side... more like a curved pipe to flange

Yes. This is what pretty much every tubular turbo manifold comes with except the ones designed to go with internal wastegates. But for the Ka there is no need for that because the Engine bay is tanker navigatible.

I think a solid 325-350 hp should be sufficient for what my plans are... and I know my build will get me there, considering I'm planning for 1000cc injectors, aem ems, a gt2876r, v-mount and e85 (I love the stuff, high octane and my car smells great ha ha)

Allllriight, where to start lol. First off, for the tuning system and injector size you have chosen, you might as well get a t3 turbo. One that matches the flow of the Ka better at those levels of Hp. One that will allow you to turn up the boost whenever you want, basically an upgrade for whenever you want more boost. You always want more boost eventually.

Your power goal is right where the t2 flange starts to choke the Ka and raise drive pressure to unacceptable levels.

If this is a track only car, go for V-Mount if you can fabricate. If its a street car, you shouldnt do that and its illegal at LEAST in my state. Its also not needed.

I've read maximum boost quite a bit

Thats great that you'v read, but your a few years behind hehe. Put down the book and spend more time on the forums getting updated.
Modified by 480sx at 4:00 PM 6/8/2009

[DevilMB3017]

I wouldn't say they suck... they are designed better than internal wastegates... but not by much.

In any case, you're saying I should just go with a welded on v-band flange from the collector then? Of course it wouldn't just be a straight shot out of the side... more like a curved pipe to flange, I've read maximum boost quite a bit

I think a solid 325-350 hp should be sufficient for what my plans are... and I know my build will get me there, considering I'm planning for 1000cc injectors, aem ems, a gt2876r, v-mount and e85 (I love the stuff, high octane and my car smells great ha ha)

oh btw the question was if I would be able to fit the tial directly on a turbine housing with a v-band flange without hitting anything xD doesn't matter too much though

I have a fraction of that setup you want, and I'm already in that HP range.

With that kind of fuel and tuning setup, you should be aiming for way more power.

And further more, you want all that setup, but only a T2 flange (which gives you very little, if any, room to upgrade) and not a more traditional external wastegate?

[WDRacing]

Nate...buddy.

I hate when people say something sucks simply because a different option exists that is better. The internal wastegate has worked friggin excellent for YEARS. I have ridden in many Skylines/180's/Silvia's/Mustangs etc that have used internally gated turbo's. My uncle's T-Type would run 10's with the internal type.

The external is better, fact. Nuff said on this topic.

A friend of mine and fellow Nico guy has done something close to what you're thinking Cody. He said it was hard and the plumbing is ugly...but it worked. He's not the best welder and didn't even use the same type of metal when he made the pipe...LOL. But it works...

I have long wondered how well a large external wastegate and T2 flanged turbo would do. I'd use the biggest wastegate on the market though. Something that will assist the exhaust flow as much as possible. IMO the the T2 flange is just a restriction with anything more then 6 psi of boost. 8 psi starts to turn that thing into a restriction and at the same time the charge air temps are starting to increase ALOT.

DO IT!!!

WD

[sorrowfulkiller]

lots of good advice!

First off... I want to go with the gt27876r because I like quick spooling turbos, that being said it should support my goals, however when I'm ready to upgrade I will probably upgrade to a gt3076 or something similar.

I'll be doing the whole build in steps

1.build engine, and clean up body/weld holes, AEM2. suspension, brakes, widebody, 5 lug, bracing3. t25 flange turbo and v-mount4. probably upgrade to a t3

The car will not be a full racecar, I want to see if I can keep the A/C while still doing a v-mount if possible (might get new condensor so it flows through easier). I basically am going for a very responsive weekend car I can mess around with, thus why the t25 flange turbo, however I'll upgrade when I feel I need to.

[sorrowfulkiller]

If this is a track only car, go for V-Mount if you can fabricate. If its a street car, you shouldnt do that and its illegal at LEAST in my state. Its also not needed.

As far as I know a v-mount in SD is not illegal, we have really relaxed auto laws up here. basically the only thing that is illegal, is having no cat... but they don't enforce it.

Quote »Thats great that you've read, but your a few years behind hehe. Put down the book and spend more time on the forums getting updated. [/quote]I've been on nasioc for quite awhile since i have a wrx myself, however I haven't had a 4 cylinder yet without extremely long runners xD

I understand about what you're talking about with the flanged turbine housing causing disruption of flow, it makes perfect sense.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Nate...buddy.

I hate when people say something sucks simply because a different option exists that is better. The internal wastegate has worked friggin excellent for YEARS. I have ridden in many Skylines/180's/Silvia's/Mustangs etc that have used internally gated turbo's. My uncle's T-Type would run 10's with the internal type.

The external is better, fact. Nuff said on this topic.

A friend of mine and fellow Nico guy has done something close to what you're thinking Cody. He said it was hard and the plumbing is ugly...but it worked. He's not the best welder and didn't even use the same type of metal when he made the pipe...LOL. But it works...

I have long wondered how well a large external wastegate and T2 flanged turbo would do. I'd use the biggest wastegate on the market though. Something that will assist the exhaust flow as much as possible. IMO the the T2 flange is just a restriction with anything more then 6 psi of boost. 8 psi starts to turn that thing into a restriction and at the same time the charge air temps are starting to increase ALOT.

DO IT!!!

WD

lmao I like your train of thought. I personally think that a t2 with an external wastegate off the collector would actually open up quite a bit, for instance in the subie world people have used an external wastegate with a evo3 16g and have gained 35+ hp just by switching and putting in a little bit more fuel because it held boost better. The HP increse is more than likely because the turbo was more into its efficiency range... which is exactly what it should do with a gt2876r on a ka24de

[480sx]

Brian, i wasnt talking about internal wastegates. I was talking about turbine housings(cant find the freaken pics of those goofy bastrds) that have a 'Remote mounted internal wastegate), like the OP was talking about getting. Back from the dinosaur age of turbochargers. I was comparing that to a normal internally gated turbo. That in todays day, those style housings arnt even made anymore because the normal style internal out performs them.

I have long wondered how well a large external wastegate and T2 flanged turbo would do.

Its done 500+ HP with duel 44mm wastegates on a 4 banger before, and more than that somewhere else im sure. The main issue with the t2 flange is simply, its SMALL. Anything more than 350 hp and it becomes a restriction on just about every setup except crazy custom ish.

Again, a main issue here is turbine drive pressure. This is, the pressure your exhaust gas creates in your turbo manifold before the turbine. You want a ratio of as close to 1:1 as possible, drive pressure:boost. 1:1.5 is acceptable, but your turbos life will be shorter. The turbine trys to 'fly' out of the centerhousing when your drive pressure get out of whack. Your drive pressures get out of whack because your system is restricting flow at X hp.

OP - V-Mount and a condenser...

The cost/benefit for a daily driver to have a V-Mount setup is horrible. Its really only going to be beneficial on the track where your always beating on your engine, and your always moving. If you get into a front end accident your car is almost certainly totaled.
Modified by 480sx at 2:44 PM 6/8/2009

[WDRacing]

Oh...my bad. You suck at communication

Hacking up SSAC manifolds and trying new stuff rocks. Guess that's my only real point. That and Nate loves young boiz

[480sx]

Hehe i wana cheap shot you bad.. You lucky i like you bro.

Havnt we been down this... Two way street before?

Man i wish i was retired for entirely masculine reasons...
Modified by 480sx at 4:50 PM 6/8/2009

[sorrowfulkiller]

Brian, i wasnt talking about internal wastegates. I was talking about turbine housings(cant find the freaken pics of those goofy bastrds) that have a 'Remote mounted internal wastegate), like the OP was talking about getting. Back from the dinosaur age of turbochargers. I was comparing that to a normal internally gated turbo. That in todays day, those style housings arnt even made anymore because the normal style internal out performs them.

Its done 500+ HP with duel 44mm wastegates on a 4 banger before, and more than that somewhere else im sure. The main issue with the t2 flange is simply, its SMALL. Anything more than 350 hp and it becomes a restriction on just about every setup except crazy custom ish.

Again, a main issue here is turbine drive pressure. This is, the pressure your exhaust gas creates in your turbo manifold before the turbine. You want a ratio of as close to 1:1 as possible, drive pressure:boost. 1:1.5 is acceptable, but your turbos life will be shorter. The turbine trys to 'fly' out of the centerhousing when your drive pressure get out of whack. Your drive pressures get out of whack because your system is restricting flow at X hp.

OP - V-Mount and a condenser...

The cost/benefit for a daily driver to have a V-Mount setup is horrible. Its really only going to be beneficial on the track where your always beating on your engine, and your always moving. If you get into a front end accident your car is almost certainly totaled.

Modified by 480sx at 2:44 PM 6/8/2009

Here is a gt30r with it on it, for a wrx/stihttp://www.full-race.com/catal...=1930

For the V-mount, I'm planning on making a replacement bumper beam that should be stronger than stock yet would still work with a v-mount.

[480sx]

GL finding your 240 dude, and gl with your project.

[sorrowfulkiller]

thanks very much... gonna be a little while but I should have one by next may after I get out of tech school

that being said I'm going to continue refining my "must buy" list til I get everything I'll need

[Chris28]

It's been said before, but keep on reading the forums and anything boost related you can. When injector shopping, go big or go home. You can run a dinky turbo with 1000cc injectors, it just means you have lots of room to upgrade.

I'm stuck with a low boost setup because of my 370cc injectors. I can't upgrade my turbo because the rest of my setup can't handle it.

[480sx]

that being said I'm going to continue refining my "must buy" list til I get everything I'll need

I wouldnt make your mind up yet. You have yet to spend any real time on the forums or doing current day research, with successful setups, dyno charts, testimonials, what works, what doesnt, ect.

Right now, you shouldnt even be worrying about buying parts. You should be worrying about filling your brain with knowledge.

[Chaluska]

I personally looked at my goals, and decided to get above safe for what im looking for (250whp)

I got nismo 740's / JWT ECU / Z32 MAF

the tune is perfect, 18:1 afr's at idle, and 14:1 cruise, 11.5:1 under boost.

Super safe, and ultra reliable.. im at 180 miles, and am just now getting under half a tank of gas

On top of that, i went with the golden bear clutch, and it laughs at this amount of power all day long. and has a VERY SLIGHTLY stiffer than stock pedal, almost not noticible, except for the EXTREME Picky.

turbo selection is based on when you want the power..

Do you want it super early, and dies off late, Or do you want to have a tiny amount of lag, but then explode into the future? do you want something that spools quick, AND pulls to redline, and capable of close to 400 whp

I think the .48 A/R T3/T4 50 trim turbo would suite you nicely. That coupled with a log manifold, and 3" downpipe, you would see boost at around 2200-2300 rpms, and pull to redline.

The T25 simply put is not ment for the KA, why would you drink through a coffee straw(1/32"), if you can use a typical 1/5" straw and they will cost your the same?

And why would you be using that small turbo, but using an AEM EMS???? your looking at like 2000$+ to get it installed, and tuned.

Seems like a slight waste to me.. Like buying a magnum condom for a vienna sausage

[Chaluska]

Do you need to get rid of the Air conditioning to run a t25 bottom mount turbo?

No.

The t25 can keep the A/C, you just have to beware when putting in the oil drain line. cant put it too far forward, or the A/C compressor gets in the way

[sorrowfulkiller]

I wouldnt make your mind up yet. You have yet to spend any real time on the forums or doing current day research, with successful setups, dyno charts, testimonials, what works, what doesnt, ect.

Right now, you shouldnt even be worrying about buying parts. You should be worrying about filling your brain with knowledge.

Trust me, not making up my mind just yet, that's why I've been posting so much recently in this forum. Trying to get as much info I can so I know what to expect when I get the car and parts.

I wish I had some dyno charts of a ka24de with a t25 turbo... but I really can't find any

Also... you said earlier it becomes a restriction unless you have a crazy wastegate setup...

That's all that my build is, crazy... I'm going for the quickest spooling, most reponsive, most streetable and competitive setup, whether it is for drag racing, autox, or road racing... i know the GT2876R compressor will get me there, however its the exhuast housing/turbine that I'm worried about, but I think with a good wastegate setup I could make quite a bit of power through redline yet still have a very quick spool time. If I go with the t25 flange I'm going to do the wastegate portion in steps... internal -> 1 44mm -> 2 44mm?
Modified by sorrowfulkiller at 1:59 PM 6/9/2009

[sorrowfulkiller]

No.

The t25 can keep the A/C, you just have to beware when putting in the oil drain line. cant put it too far forward, or the A/C compressor gets in the way

So do a test fit with the compressor on the car when planning on where to put the oil return line, problem solved. thanks

[DevilMB3017]

I wish I had some dyno charts of a ka24de with a t25 turbo... but I really can't find any

That's because it's not worth dynoing,

For your power goals, you could just get a JGS Kit for like $1000 plus an incredibly nice turbo, and be done 1-2-3. If you want to put in the kind of work you're making it seem like, you could easily have a ~500 rwhp car.

[WDRacing]

That's because it's not worth dynoing,

For your power goals, you could just get a JGS Kit for like $1000 plus an incredibly nice turbo, and be done 1-2-3. If you want to put in the kind of work you're making it seem like, you could easily have a ~500 rwhp car.

All truth

[sorrowfulkiller]

but.... I don't want 500 hp...

[sorrowfulkiller]

Okay, say I want to run 350 rwhp with a broad powerband... what parts would you recommend? (Considering I'll be using AEM EMS, an HKS EVC 5 and a built engine)
Modified by sorrowfulkiller at 2:49 PM 6/10/2009

[WDRacing]

JGS manifold/turbo/downpipe combo matched with a CXRacing FMIC kit and 72lb injectors. The exhaust system is always RS*R for me...pricey but the best usually is. The turbo needs to be the T3/TO4E with the .48AR hotside so you won't have any lag. A real good friend of mine and the owner of NICO have this exact turbo and his first gear is useless because he's making that much power just after throttle tip at WOT. He's running 275's out back...I ran the same turbo aside except I used the .63AR hotside. The lag was there compared to a car that comes with a really small turbo from the factory. I'd hit full boost (20psi) shortly after 3k depending on gear and load. Which is nothing comapred to my Skyline I used to have. That pig had the TO4 with a .81AR hotside on the that poor little RB20 Then again I did install the T4 on the KA as well...which was even worse. Atleast the RB20 could spin to 8500.

BTW, I'm borderline GENIUS with subinjection...like alcohol/meth/water etc. For those moments when you wanna run 10-15 psi more

[480sx]

Freaken high quality manifold of your choice, and a 50 trim .48 ar t3/t4 with a stage 3 wheel. Along with all the other crap you need for a performance car and, your car will be exactly what you want. I would go with 850cc size injectors for your build, little easier to tune for and you wont need 1000s. Heck you wont need 850's lol, but since your going AEM might as well.

Everything else on your list is fine.