"Ringing" Engine Noise Anyone?

Discussion of Infiniti's amazing (and underrated) sport-luxury crossovers, the EX35 and EX37. For 2014, the EX series will be renamed QX50, in line with Ininfiit's new naming conventions.
sg77
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No real news on this yet, but on another forum about the G37 someone said Infiniti told him they're still working on a fix that insulates the ECU (where they say the noise is coming from) without it overheating, and that the problem isn't a safety concern.


Dapple17
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Car: EX 35

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Im having the same problem, soft high pitch sound on and off when I accelerate slowly, does it when the radios off or on(I dont have a BOSE system or NAV), would love a solution that I can go to the dealership with as they look at me like im crazy. I really cant stand it.

jay214
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I had the same problem and I thought the noise came from the timing belt wheels and I sprayed some wd 40 on it and the noise went away. But not sure if this will help ya but helped me.

jaboz
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I've noticed a noise - could be a pinging in my EX35. These cars make a lot of horsepower and could probably use a higher octane than the crap they call "premium" these days. Try a little octane booster and see if it does anything. My theory is that this problem has probably been around for a while, and when they started putting the wimpy exhaust systems these things have now (loved the way my '04 FX35 sounded), people started hearing them more. Don't let the dealer start f'ing around with it - waste of time. You're better off subscribing to XM Radio and turning Blue Collar Comedy up loud.

jaboz
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Do these cars have an electric motor or solonoid that activates the throttle?If so, it probably could be heard cranking up. Would be quiet unless you accelerated, or the cruise control came on, and might cause some electrical interference that could be detected on the sound system. Replacing speakers sounds like BS to me, but, maybe the new ones are better shielded against interferrence. I can imagine something like this costing Nissan $800 - $2000 a car to fix if they have to do a recall. Maybe it has to do withths "adaptive throtle control". Anyone know anything about this BS? Can it be reset? Mine has learned to drive like an old geezer (but I still love it!).

yorker
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Got my 2008 EX35 Journey AWD w/ Nav back from 7500 maintenance. Tech claimed the high-pitch noise is from the ECM and is "normal". 2009 G37x loaner (no nav) had the same noise.

CuthGood130
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Check out the state of things on the G37 site: http://myg37.com/forums/g37-se....html

I am dealing with this problem on two cars (my G37 and my girlfriend's EX35). It looks like progress being made in that Infiniti has acknowledged there is a problem and apparently has implemented a fix for the 2010 models that will hopefully be made available to existing customers soon.

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SteveTheTech
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That link is 23 pages of nothing~typical of that site

There is a noise, they know about it but at this point there is nothing that is shown to fix it. I remember when I was a young Nissan tech they had a recall on the '00 ish Sentras that had foam encasing the ecm to protect from noise or vibration but it would overheat and stop working. As mentioned at the top of this page this is not a safety concern and the cost to replace each ecm means that is not an option.

Although I don't know for certain I really think the fuel pump drive device inside the ecm is the cause. It is only noticed once load is applied to the engine and the noise doesn't change at all. There is no info out there to the general public or us techs at this point regarding this so all information is still speculation.

As these cars get more advanced electronically this is something that is going to be the new face of our noise vibration and harshness complaints we at the dealers will be seeing.


DRebillard
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I have owned a 2005 G35 6MT ever since July/05 (purchased new) and first noticed that annoying ringing sound a couple of years ago. I just recently learned of the exact source - it's definitely eminating from the throttle control module. Applying moderate pressure, in any direction, to the module has the effect of temporarily silencing it, but the ringing gradually returns to full volume after just a couple of seconds, regardless of having applied continuous pressure. I just found out that the part costs $224.95 here in Canada. I'm going to wait until the fall to replace it though, given that they seem to have a limited lifespan of say a couple of years before they start sounding off, and in 10 weeks from now I'll be moving the plates over to my corvette, which is now in storage. The throttle control module is that finned item measuring approximately 3" by 3" (and 1" thick) that is attached to the intake plenum, right near the firewall. I can't believe that Nissan doesn't know about this and am convinced that they are instead choosing to plead ignorance, given how much it would cost them to fix the problem and roll out new modules to all affected owners, or at least those who are still on warranty.
Modified by DRebillard at 6:50 AM 2/1/2010

BlueFlash
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well, i have a '09 G37xS with 4,800 miles and just started getting the same god damn noise.

By the looks of this thread the prognosis is not good, So here is the question...if there is no fix and you've had your car at the dealer for X number of times can one Lemon Law this car?

3/7 days a week i drive from New York Philly (2 hour trip x2=4 hours) and it WILL be unbearable.

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SteveTheTech
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Welcome to the group, sorry it couldn't have been under better circumstances.

The noise doesn't appear like it is going anywhere and is a byproduct of normal operation (making resolution all the more difficult). Not being a safety concern there is little legal ramification in most states.

The noise has a direct correlation to the throttle motor driver, or fuel pump, proving what does what inside the computer is never going to happen or at least on my level it will not.

DRebillard- The issue highlighted in this thread does not apply to models from <2007. This is only noticed on vehicles with the dual throttle body setup and VQ35VHR motor, which the does not have for your year. I do not know what you are referring to but these engines do tend to make some funny noises. Other than that I do not know what to tell you.

BlueFlash
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SteveTheTech wrote:Welcome to the group, sorry it couldn't have been under better circumstances.

The noise doesn't appear like it is going anywhere and is a byproduct of normal operation (making resolution all the more difficult). Not being a safety concern there is little legal ramification in most states.

The noise has a direct correlation to the throttle motor driver, or fuel pump, proving what does what inside the computer is never going to happen or at least on my level it will not.

DRebillard- The issue highlighted in this thread does not apply to models from <2007. This is only noticed on vehicles with the dual throttle body setup and VQ35VHR motor, which the does not have for your year. I do not know what you are referring to but these engines do tend to make some funny noises. Other than that I do not know what to tell you.
Steve, so what is the most realistic fix for this?Has any member was able to get a fix from the dealer?

This noise is so unbearable that I can hear it when i get out of the car and at home for the next minutes or so.

Steve, you really think that a person can't lemon a car if they can't fix this. After all, i didn't buy the car to have this POS noise.

DRebillard
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This is common to G35's, G37's and EX35's. My theory is that the throttle control module has been unchanged since 2005 (or 2004 or 2003). Believe me, I know exactly what everyone else is experiencing. I always thought it was the fuel pump because it seemed to eminate from the rear of the cabin, but now I know for sure that it is the throttle control module. It just makes sense in that many have stated that it comes on when they press the accelerator pedal. All you have to do is to put your ear up against the module, and if it's like mine, using your thumb to apply pressure to it will temporarily silence it. I don't put many miles on my G35, and in thinking back, it would have only had between 5,000 and 7,000 miles on it when the problem first surfaced. As I had stated in my previous/first post, they seem to have a very limited lifespan before they start sounding off. Nissan really needs to get after the OEM to do something about it. The TCM is that finned item near the firewall, and the fact that it is finned is an indication that it requires cooling because there is a current flowing through it, and anytime you have a current flowing through something such as a transformer or ballast, there is the potential for that high pitched ringing. My intent is to share this knowledge with everyone else so that they can get the problem fixed before their warranty expires.
Modified by DRebillard at 6:44 AM 2/1/2010

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txgcoupe
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2007 G35 no problem2010 EX35 no problem

Lucky I guess.

John

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SteveTheTech
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BlueFlash wrote:The TCM is that finned item near the firewall, and the fact that it is finned is an indication that it requires cooling because there is a current flowing through it, and anytime you have a current flowing through something such as a transformer or ballast, there is the potential for that high pitched ringing.
The TCM is actually submerged in the transmission pan on all 03.5+ models with automatics. You are correct about power transforming modules. Headlight ballasts hum, which is why they are as far away as possible. The ballast in my kitchen has recently started doing that funny buzzing thing indicating my "Honey Do" has just increased.

I think you have something unique or Canadian my friend, not all of the things are the same and you very well may have something that is just slightly different. Unfortunetly we here in the states have some issue retrieving parts information indicating there are a few small differences. Nico has a bunch of members from the Great White North maybe some of them can help you a bit, check out our G forum. One of the things I tend to harp on is the cold weather making anything worse, but your issue is not the same.
BlueFlash wrote:
Steve, so what is the most realistic fix for this?Has any member was able to get a fix from the dealer?

This noise is so unbearable that I can hear it when i get out of the car and at home for the next minutes or so.

Steve, you really think that a person can't lemon a car if they can't fix this. After all, i didn't buy the car to have this POS noise.
I understand your frustration although any information I have is by no means official in purpose and is a casual conversation....please don't send me a subpoena. Typically I stay away from issues like this that may end up in court but I really think this deserves some attention.

Here is the dilemma, the majority of people cannot hear noises over the 20kHz where this noise is heard. I can actually hear this but more than 8 of my 12 co workers cannot. Depending on your personal hearing range you may never hear this basically. I consider myself pretty sensitive when it comes to noises like this. Actually I feel like I can feel the vibrations of some noises, well not a weird sixth sense sort of way more or a doing it for a living way. I can hear this noise over the radio in some cases, I spent a weekend driving an EX while I was contemplating purchasing one and it made that noise. I didn't end up getting it as my DW did not care for the look, but she couldn't hear the noise even in the passenger seat.

I have been pestering everyone I know for an answer to the big question of what is going to be a fix. As you can see if you read through some of the other larger threads in this forum some of these issues can be known of for a year before a sufficient resolution is found. Typically with mechanical things like this and the EX rack and pinion concern from 08 a whole new component needs to be built. There is a significant problem with this case though, and that is the fact that in order to redesign the ecm they will have to reapply for federal certification depending on the route cause and remedy but the rules are very strict. Once I hear something I will be sure to post it.

To the best of my knowledge there is no incidence of a suitable repair as the component that we suspect and the possibilities are very limited for a repair that will fix this without a consequence. It's a butterfly effect type thing.

BlueFlash
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SteveTheTech wrote:
The TCM is actually submerged in the transmission pan on all 03.5+ models with automatics. You are correct about power transforming modules. Headlight ballasts hum, which is why they are as far away as possible. The ballast in my kitchen has recently started doing that funny buzzing thing indicating my "Honey Do" has just increased.

I think you have something unique or Canadian my friend, not all of the things are the same and you very well may have something that is just slightly different. Unfortunetly we here in the states have some issue retrieving parts information indicating there are a few small differences. Nico has a bunch of members from the Great White North maybe some of them can help you a bit, check out our G forum. One of the things I tend to harp on is the cold weather making anything worse, but your issue is not the same.

I understand your frustration although any information I have is by no means official in purpose and is a casual conversation....please don't send me a subpoena. Typically I stay away from issues like this that may end up in court but I really think this deserves some attention.

Here is the dilemma, the majority of people cannot hear noises over the 20kHz where this noise is heard. I can actually hear this but more than 8 of my 12 co workers cannot. Depending on your personal hearing range you may never hear this basically. I consider myself pretty sensitive when it comes to noises like this. Actually I feel like I can feel the vibrations of some noises, well not a weird sixth sense sort of way more or a doing it for a living way. I can hear this noise over the radio in some cases, I spent a weekend driving an EX while I was contemplating purchasing one and it made that noise. I didn't end up getting it as my DW did not care for the look, but she couldn't hear the noise even in the passenger seat.

I have been pestering everyone I know for an answer to the big question of what is going to be a fix. As you can see if you read through some of the other larger threads in this forum some of these issues can be known of for a year before a sufficient resolution is found. Typically with mechanical things like this and the EX rack and pinion concern from 08 a whole new component needs to be built. There is a significant problem with this case though, and that is the fact that in order to redesign the ecm they will have to reapply for federal certification depending on the route cause and remedy but the rules are very strict. Once I hear something I will be sure to post it.

To the best of my knowledge there is no incidence of a suitable repair as the component that we suspect and the possibilities are very limited for a repair that will fix this without a consequence. It's a butterfly effect type thing.
Thanx for the heads up Steve.

My final question is this, if there is no current fix for this due to all the reasons that you've listed, don't I have the right to ask Infiniti to buy the car back (If the noise is dected by the technician and IF it really is painful for me as a consumer)Logically, i want to say yes...What do you think?

CuthGood130
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Hi, I drive a 2009 G37 S 6MT and have been going back and forth with the dealer on this since noise I bought the car. My girlfriend has an 09 EX35 with the same issue. I was able to get in touch with a District Technical Specialist, who has been helpful in facilitating my case. As things currently stand, the DTS said that Infiniti is aware of the problem (it's the ECM) and that a "countermeasure" part has been developed for the 2010 models. This part has been ordered for my car and should arrive at my dealership any day. I will post once I have the repair made to let you know if it works - hopefully by the end of the month.

I share your frustration and disappointment, and hopefully a successful resolution of my case will provide a roadmap for how others can proceed.


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SteveTheTech
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CuthGood130 wrote:I share your frustration and disappointment, and hopefully a successful resolution of my case will provide a roadmap for how others can proceed
I must say that just because one instance is resolved there is not going to be "roadmap" per say as dealers will not have access to a countermeasure part. In the past what Infiniti/Nissan will do is make a small handful of countermeasure parts without a traceable part number. When the parts are installed the DTS files his findings in the report. If the part works the new part gets green lighted, if not back to the drawing board. Turn around time is kind of slow but if you think about the supply chain it really is pretty quick for non safety related concerns.

Infiniti is one of the better companies when it comes to resolving issues that not impact safety, but impact customer perception. What does this mean to the people who are struggling with this? It depends.
BlueFlash wrote:My final question is this, if there is no current fix for this due to all the reasons that you've listed, don't I have the right to ask Infiniti to buy the car back Logically, i want to say yes...What do you think?
Logically I want to agree with you, if it bothers you that bad you may be able to angle for a better deal on a 2010 G, which is worth a look imho. The 09 is the best of the G line thus far only passed by the 2010 model. Many of the little quirks were resolved and the 7 speeds shift and timing logic has been tuned more towards the needs of American owners. The interior gets a touch up and the front fascia gets a new look. I understand the anger I really do I have seen people get very angry at their cars for many reasons. If they can put you in another car without having to declare your model a "lemon" they sometime will roll your current deal into the new car.

I have to say though from my experience is that every one of these cases is different but going through Consumer Affairs is really the only way to get the company to acknowledge the concern. This is not to trash the dealer staff by any means but their pull is limited in the grand scheme of things. As with getting things done through the consumer relations departments of whatever type of company you work for the higher you manage to go and the calmer you are the better the likelihood all parties involved in this contractual issue leave resolved, no matter what that is.

BlueFlash
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Thanx for the heads up Steve.

Well, my car has been taken to the dealer, and after listening to the tech telling me that it's all in my head they finally heard the problem. They called the tech line at infiniti who is supposed to walk them through the issue. My SA called later and said that they actually located the noise and that it's coming from the ECU. THey even used a sound tool to measure the frequency.That is confirmed!Now, what they are planning on doing I still don't know.

BTW my loaner '08 EX35 has the same issue, HAHA, BUT it seems like the noise is not as loud. In my car its def more noticeable.
Modified by BlueFlash at 7:53 AM 2/4/2010

BlueFlash
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BTW: here is the full writeup from the dealer:

Noticed vehicle was altered with lowering suspension. Raised vehicle in air and noise was still present. Had shop foreman go ride with customer too. He also heard the high pitched noise. Removed drive belt and noise was still present. Reassembled drive belt and removed glove box and shop foreman touch ECM and bracket and pitch of noise did quiet. Removed computer and did cushion with foam and bracket, noise was still present. Shop foreman used stethoscope and found noise coming from ECM. Spoke with Ted on tech line and he informed me that it was a problem being mentioned by customers. But at this time THERE IS NO FIX FOR IT. Explained to customer that tech line says to watch for bulletins. Tech line suggested NOT TO replace ECM or other parts at this time. Investigation Completed.

a few points.

1. (Interesting how they are so quick to point out my lowered suspension-freakin' rats!)2. They were almost telling me that I should just crank the stereo up-BUT guess what-you can't drown it out.3. Whoever this guy TED is, i'd kick his *** right here, right now.

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SteveTheTech
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1-You've already lowered your 09? It is actually there call whether they mention things that the owner changed so if there is a problem down the road they will now what is actually a manufacturers defect and what should be warrantable, this is nothing unique to Infiniti and is standard practice. If you have a good rapport with the service staff (who are people first and should be treated as such and employees of a company secondly).

2-Have you read anything I have said in this thread? The acknowledge the issue and the R&D team is working on it. One of the other members here is getting a final prototype, that typically means the final testing phase is done. Ordering a new ECM isn't going to fix anything because the part numbers are the same...meaning the part is the same....meaning it will do the same thing.

3- Now listen here Ted is a great guy I have worked with him on a few problems. There is certainly no reason to publicly threaten harm on someone. He is actually the reason you have an answer. It sounds like your techs might have gone the long to find the obvious, meaning they must not have seen this before.

Obviously the EX has this issue you are in the ex forum. You have done all of that complaining without even taking the car into the dealer once? Really?

beemer_m6
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SteveTheTech wrote:I can hear this noise over the radio in some cases, I spent a weekend driving an EX while I was contemplating purchasing one and it made that noise. I didn't end up getting it as my DW did not care for the look, but she couldn't hear the noise even in the passenger seat.
Steve,

Is this noise expected on all 2010 EX35s as well, or only some can be affected? I have a 2010 EX35 for a month now but never noticed any noise but it's still below 1000 mi. so i try not to rev it more than 3000 rpm. Does this problem appear only after more than few thousand miles driven and when you start to floor it after the break-in period? Thanks.

BlueFlash
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SteveTheTech wrote:1-You've already lowered your 09? It is actually there call whether they mention things that the owner changed so if there is a problem down the road they will now what is actually a manufacturers defect and what should be warrantable, this is nothing unique to Infiniti and is standard practice. If you have a good rapport with the service staff (who are people first and should be treated as such and employees of a company secondly).

2-Have you read anything I have said in this thread? The acknowledge the issue and the R&D team is working on it. One of the other members here is getting a final prototype, that typically means the final testing phase is done. Ordering a new ECM isn't going to fix anything because the part numbers are the same...meaning the part is the same....meaning it will do the same thing.

3- Now listen here Ted is a great guy I have worked with him on a few problems. There is certainly no reason to publicly threaten harm on someone. He is actually the reason you have an answer. It sounds like your techs might have gone the long to find the obvious, meaning they must not have seen this before.

Obviously the EX has this issue you are in the ex forum. You have done all of that complaining without even taking the car into the dealer once? Really?
Steve,

my apologies to Ted, i got carried away because i got angry after the treatment i got from my dealer. Also, it didn't help that the final word from Ted was "Dont do anything, there is no fix at this time.

Also, you say that you can replace the ECM, however, it seems that another member on another board got it fixed:

"The part number on the work order says engine control module - 23710 - 1ND6C

under some notes it says, replace ecm, program keys"

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SteveTheTech
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The replacement ecm is on restricted availability meaning unless you have one of the cars involved in the long term test (as the member here who posted a part number is/was). You cannot go into the dealer and demand this number. Ted was right, no matter how bluntly it was put to you...there is no mass market fix yet.

Given the safety related recalls from the other Japanese makers a noisy servo inside the ecm is not too bad...imo.

I think you need to find yourself a new dealer, if your dealer has not heard of this concern yet they might not actually see allot of new Infinitis. There are too many dealers in your area to work with a dealer that cannot address this issue. I know at my dealer the service advisers know about this concern and are doing all they can to ease the minds of the owners facing this concern. Your negative impression might have more to do with poor communication in your current dealer.

BlueFlash
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SteveTheTech wrote:The replacement ecm is on restricted availability meaning unless you have one of the cars involved in the long term test (as the member here who posted a part number is/was). You cannot go into the dealer and demand this number. Ted was right, no matter how bluntly it was put to you...there is no mass market fix yet.

Given the safety related recalls from the other Japanese makers a noisy servo inside the ecm is not too bad...imo.

I think you need to find yourself a new dealer, if your dealer has not heard of this concern yet they might not actually see allot of new Infinitis. There are too many dealers in your area to work with a dealer that cannot address this issue. I know at my dealer the service advisers know about this concern and are doing all they can to ease the minds of the owners facing this concern. Your negative impression might have more to do with poor communication in your current dealer.
Thanks Steve,

EDIT:Got a call from my consumer guy, who was very helpful in the process.He said that my dealership was advised to order the part (what part number i don't know) and i will be going in as soon as it comes in...crossing fingers...

Modified by BlueFlash at 9:21 AM 2/10/2010
Modified by BlueFlash at 1:40 PM 2/10/2010

CuthGood130
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I picked up my car (09 G37S) after the countermeasure ECM was installed and the noise is gone! The part number on the work order is "electronic control module - 23710-1ND9C.

I still need to have the replacement done on my girlfriend's EX35, and the District Technical Specialist who has been assisting me informed that the countermeasure part for that vehicle is scheduled to begin arriving in April.

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That's great new I am glad to hear that, I'm sure you will enjoy the car much more without this issue.

This is good there should be a tsb out soon for this issue. So far this reminds me of the thread about the steering rack concerns in the 2008 EX but given the fact that that is the primary concern and there are no compromises in safety I would personally take that.


EmeraldNYL
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Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum having just purchased my 2008 EX35 AWD Journey in Jan with about 13,500 miles on it.

I noticed the ringing noise myself several weeks ago-- took it in to Infiniti and drove it around with the tech, who noticed the noise as well. He said that it was a common problem with the G's, and while he hadn't heard of the same problem with the EX's, it merely required ordering a simple computer part and he would call me when it was in.

Well, a week goes by and no phone call, so I call the dealer and apparently there is no fix for the EX35, there is only a fix for the G. They have no record of me even bringing the car in the first time, so can I please bring in the car again and they will look it over. Well, this time 3 different techs claim that they can't hear the noise (meanwhile I am driving a loaner G that was given to me in filthy condition that makes the same noise) and they claim to have called corporate, and corporate has never heard of any problem with the EX. I mention this forum as well as the fact that my friend's EX makes the same noise, and they basically call me a liar and say that there has never been any problem with the EX. They tell me there is absolutely nothing they can do since there are no reported problems and now they *SUPRISE*, can't hear the noise!!

Having been a happy Acura owner for the past 7 years I am furious to just be brushed off like this and I am SO DISGUSTED that I bought an Infiniti and not another Acura. Never again!!!!

(By the way, the dealer was Infiniti of Willow Grove in PA-- can't say I'd recommend them to my worst enemy).

lemba
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Hi All,

Here is my story. First time I discovered high pitch noise I brought car to the dealership. They couldn’t duplicate it. I took car back. I drove car for another month until it became a super annoying. I brought car for second try. Same thing – cannot duplicate. I started to think its just my paranoia. I check the internet and found this thread. Now I know I’m no the only one :) During April I brought my car to two other dealerships. Same result. I call number of times to Infiniti USA. They said they cannot help me until problem is duplicated by the authorized Infiniti Service. My last step was contacting the lemon law lawyer. He checked all paperwork and said he can do nothing until they start repair. Service attempts are not counted.

Right now I’m in the circle. Dealership wont take the car in any circumstances. Infiniti USA cannot help me until problem is duplicated. Lawyer cannot start processing without number of unsuccessful repairs.

I would appreciate any suggestions how to make Infiniti to duplicate the problem.

Thanks in advance,
Vladimir

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SteveTheTech
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Car: 15 Sentra SR
12 G37x Coupe
-Formerly-
05 Mazda 6 L3 Sport, 95 J30, 94 D22
Location: Chantilly, Va

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I've got to say nothing brings new people to forums like complaints.

It's a shame that this noise has ruined the EX for these two.

I feel the exact opposite way about the Acura I am getting out of for an Infiniti. The fun of driving is worth driving a rwd vehicle. Plus the new Acuras are dreadful looking.

There is now a counter measure part available for the EX finally.

I do not know how long it has been out and have heard nothing about until a member of the forum brought his in and we did some complaining. And like we were supposed to know it was there ready to be installed. The part will be installed tomorrow but having put a few in Gs I know the countermeasure part works.

Make sure you bring them all of your keys.

There are several part numbers and no tsb at this point. The counter measure part number ends in C The prefix is the same and the suffix is specific to trim level.

If a bulletin comes out I will pass it along (if I see if before you do).

The amount of people who can actually hear this noise is surprisingly low. I have driven with and spoken too many owners (Gs and EXs) whos cars all do who swear they have never heard it.

:dblthumb:


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