review of safc and innovate wideband

Post by **Structure240sx** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

well i ditched my jwt and 740cc setup since i was running lean at 8psi and didnt want to go through the trouble of dynoing and sending results to jwt and new chips. so i sold them and got sr 370cc injectors, apexi safc gen I, and innovate wideband from ka24de.com. im also using a z32 maf

today after playing with the air sensor settings i got it running. in fact my car hasnt idled this well since the engine was stock. if it wasnt for the wideband i never would have got it so perfect. i still need to drive it around and tune some more but right now im very impressed. it idles at a little under 1100rpms but it does not move. the other great thing about the safc is that it can display four parameters at once in real time, 6 choices i have rpms, air flow %, correction %, and throttle %. the wideband is so easy to use and is so helpful. you cant beat the price too of $350 shipped.

soon i will be getting a msd 6btm and later prolly 550cc injectors.

i think the z32 maf did lean out the injectors some because to get a good stoich idle i have it set to -22% when 370cc should be -27% correction. this should make 550's perfect to tune with.

i am very happy so far with my new setup. i like being in control of what is going on with my car rather than someone else doing the work and messing up.

Post by **Drift Machine** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

n0ice

Post by **WDRacing** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

Wow, runnin lean on 740's. Makes me think there was a problem other then the rom tune. Fuel pressure maybe? Either way, glad ur happy. Hurry and get that thing under some big boost. We need some more guys in the 400 range.

WD

Checkered-Member · Post by **Checkered-Member** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

I will be using a very similar setup to yours the only difference is that instead of a S-AFC I’ll be using the E-manage

I have a few specific questions:

Where are you running the MAF? (Cold side, hot side, or before the compressor)Is the MAF plug and play with respect to the stock wiring harness?

Where did you get the injectors? And how much were they?

Post by **WDRacing** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

The MAF needs to be on the intake side of the compressor or on the output side of the intercooler. You don't want it run directly after the turbo.

WD

Post by **MikeMurphy** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

thats a really inexpensive wideband sensor! I take it that its a good product? Happy with it?

I'll take your 370s off ya when your done with them.

-Mike

Post by **bruinbear714** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

I have a similar setup as you, except my engine is N/A running Greddy E-manage and the innovate wideband. What's your idle setting and AFR? My car's idling at 750 rpm showing a 14.7-15.0 afr.

Under cruising and light acceleration I have the Emanage set to give around 14.5 afr, while at wot it's from 13.0-13.5 throughout the rpm band. Keep in mind that this is for N/A though.

Good job on the diy tuning - I like to take that route of doing it yourself rather than depending on someone else's generic fuel map. I do have a couple of questions about your setup though.

1. Why is your idle rpms so high?2. Does the z32 MAF directly replace the stock MAF or do you need an adapter?

Post by **Structure240sx** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

wd- my fuel pressure was perfect in fact a couple psi higher than what it should have been

mike- im very happy with the wideband i would reccomend it to anyone

checkered- i got the injectors from matt of import intellidence. i picked them up at his house for $100. almost got s15 480's but they got sold before i could get them.

bruin- my car idles at about 850rpms now from 14.5-14.9 i would say. i jsut played with it a litle todya and the car idles lower now. for the z32 maf i used a 3"-2.5" silicon reducer coupling to put it on the intake pipe. it also needs the z32 maf adapter to get an air filter on it or you can redrill holes on a 240 maf adapter. the z32 plug needs to be wired into the 240 maf harness heres a site that i used thanks to slos13, http://www.sxoc.com/site/static/z32afm.php

Post by **MikeMurphy** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

I didnt think the innovate was the LM-1. I always thought the widebands were going for $800USD. Am I going crazy?

How long do the sensors usually last??

Post by **Structure240sx** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

ka24de.com has them for $350 shipped, its a good deal i think. jsut the display is a little bulky but i can deal with that. i know they dont last as long as regular o2 sensors, i jsut dont know how long. in the box came a price list and it said a new o2 sensor for it was like $60 which is more than $10 cheaper than a factory o2 sensor

Post by **MikeMurphy** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

runs on the bosch o2 sensor doesnt it?

Post by **Structure240sx** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

yea bosch wideband

Checkered-Member · Post by **Checkered-Member** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

MikeMurphy wrote: I always thought the widebands were going for $800USD. Am I going crazy?

they do cost that much...but the KA24DE.com carries basicly the cheapest one and its in theory as accurate as the 1000+ systems I called around and the people that heard about it recommend them

Post by **SHIEF** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

AEM makes a nice wideband as well, with a 2 1/16 gauge. Check it out.

http://www.advancedimports.com/aemgauewikit.html

Post by **Structure240sx** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

thats a nice display i would really like to have. extra $100 isnt bad but the innovate can record for like 44 mintues i think

Post by **S14Swap240sx** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

http://wbo2.com while we are at it with the widebands, here yea go! seen this one in action, its great!

Post by **MikeMurphy** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

S14Swap240sx wrote:http://wbo2.com while we are at it with the widebands, here yea go! seen this one in action, its great!

Thats quite a bit more expensive.

Structure, does the Innovate wideband have an outlet to the ecu that provides narrowband info? EG. not having to weld in another bung?

Post by **WDRacing** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

I have the wide band from KA24DET.com, I hunted around before I bought it, its got the most options and works the best, therefore being the best bang for the buck. It datalogs 5 different reading as well as your O2. It records plenty of data that can be reviewed on your laptop. That way you can make A/F ratio changes along the rpm band and do chart comparisons between each run. I highly recommend it.

WD

Post by **MikeMurphy** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

Im planning on picking one up in the next 2 weeks providing I can find something competitively priced up here in Canada. It would seem to complement my fuel-side turbo install for this summer quite nicely.

Does it convert the signal to narrowband though? for the ecu? Or needest I leave the existing o2 sensors in there?

Post by **WDRacing** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

Easiest to leave the existing sensor in and weld the new O2 bung in, but I do believe it has a hooup for the ecu if welding the bung isn't an option.

WD

Checkered-Member · Post by **Checkered-Member** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

WDRacing wrote: but I do believe it has a hooup for the ecu if welding the bung isn't an option.

Which then makes it a narrow band A/F meter?

Post by **bruinbear714** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

WDRacing wrote:Easiest to leave the existing sensor in and weld the new O2 bung in, but I do believe it has a hooup for the ecu if welding the bung isn't an option.

WD

Yes, it has a pre-programmed narrow band output 1 that you can hook up to your existing o2 harness.

I just tapped into my ecu's wiring harness so I can unplug the stock o2, and use the wideband + the wire tap for a complete setup. My check engine light did come on, however, and I don't know if it was due to the ecu detecting no load on the heater wires, or if the ecu detected an incorrect voltage.

Post by **WDRacing** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

Checkered-Member wrote:Which then makes it a narrow band A/F meter?

How do ya figure that??

Post by **Projex240** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

What are you doing about the timing curves? JWT im not crazy about--but they do have good timing maps that , while conservative, do well for keeping stuff pretty detonation free, and reliable.I am using the jwt with an afc and a wideband--I like the best of all 3 worlds. hehe

Checkered-Member · Post by **Checkered-Member** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

WDRacing wrote:How do ya figure that??

Well that’s how a narrow band a/f meter operates, it leaches off the ECU input signal, instead of having its own sensor. That’s why all them A/F gauges are way off all the time.

Post by **MikeMurphy** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

Sends you a wideband reading, and then sends the ecu a narrowband reading to keep it happy. Savvy?

Post by **Structure240sx** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

right now i just have the base timing retarded to 16 degrees. later i might get a btm

Post by **SHIEF** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

Hey structure where did you get your wideband at and how much did you pay?

Post by **Structure240sx** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

Structure240sx wrote:ka24de.com has them for $350 shipped, its a good deal i think. jsut the display is a little bulky but i can deal with that. i know they dont last as long as regular o2 sensors, i jsut dont know how long. in the box came a price list and it said a new o2 sensor for it was like $60 which is more than $10 cheaper than a factory o2 sensor

all you have to do is read

Post by **canadians14** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:41 pm

hey projex how do you like the JWT / AFC combo .. i'm planning on running the JWT setup and i'm still debating on whether an AFC add on is worth the money

review of safc and innovate wideband

review of safc and innovate wideband

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