Republicans deriding McCain/Palin

[audtatious]

You know, you really should see someone about your delusions. At least the Republicans on here seem to spread the blame out to those who deserve it which happens to span both parties. Everyone agreed on the war and it took the President to initially screw it up. The Dems primarily screwed up the sub-prime loan issue and energy issues while both parties continued into big spending.

[HashiriyaS14]

This thread is just a jerk session for one side to say "But you guys are fractured!" while the other replies with the same.

The point of the thread, seeing as how I made it, isn't to point out how fractured the GOP is. Both parties are fractured. A completely united party, where everyone agrees, is both impossible and would be, quite frankly, terrifying.

The point of this thread is to illustrate that it's not just Democrats who think McCain is running a crappy campaign. I don't care if he or Obama is right or not, I don't like to argue about who's right and who's wrong and why, I like to argue about who's WINNING and who's LOSING and WHY. McCain is losing because he and Steve Schmidt have run a terrible campaign and they've made awful decisions, and I wanted to point out that my viewpoint is legitimized by the fact that numerous prominent conservatives agree.

Plenty of Democrats disagree with Obama, but you don't see very many Democrats (or even very many Republicans) saying that he's run a crappy campaign, or that his choices haven't been politically wise. Other than PERHAPS the decision to pass over Hillary for VP, there isn't much the man has done wrong from a purely political perspective.

[audtatious]

I do agree. McCain seems to be throwing darts to see what might stick. The problem with that approach is that while the MSM will jump all over a McCain/Palin issue they are not so keen to jump right into reporting or investigating Obama unless they have to. I would have thought they would have "deep dived" into Obama's associations (as they did into every aspect of Palin when she was named) as I have mentioned before and into his hand in the sub-prime loan issue, but they didn't.

I don't have a problem with the MSM looking deep into McCain and Palin as long as they do the same thing with Obama/Biden. They don't and that impacts what McCain seems to be doing.

[HashiriyaS14]

The problem with that approach is that while the MSM will jump all over a McCain/Palin issue they are not so keen to jump right into reporting or investigating Obama unless they have to. I would have thought they would have "deep dived" into Obama's associations (as they did into every aspect of Palin when she was named) as I have mentioned before and into his hand in the sub-prime loan issue, but they didn't.

I don't have a problem with the MSM looking deep into McCain and Palin as long as they do the same thing with Obama/Biden. They don't and that impacts what McCain seems to be doing.

Yeah, but again, the actions of the MSM don't have anything to do with the fact that McCain is running an idiotic campaign.

If the man had chosen Lieberman for VP, delivered a consistent economic message from day 1, and not engaged in "side show" tactics like suspending his campaign, he would be winning right now.

[dusred]

I find this thread somewhat humorous.

First off, there will always be those respected people who don't like their candidate on either side. That DOES NOT mean that a party is divided.

If I used Libby tactics I would probably start pointing out all the libbies that don't like Obama instead of focusing on the topic at hand.

There are always disgruntled people in every election. Face it. It doesn't mean a party is divided.

[telcoman]

You know, you really should see someone about your delusions.

So are you saying McCains poll numbers are a delusion?

So which party is promoting no government regulation?Seems to me that is part of the Republican platform?Attempting to blame democrats for the mess we are in is causing Obamas poll numbers to rise daily. The woman in the red dress trying to tell McCain last Friday that she read up on Obama and that he was an Arab was a good example of the type of people McCain is attracting to his rallies.Obamas poll numbers got a huge boost from her. Way to go Republicans. Keep it up till Nov 4th

[audtatious]

As I said, regardless of the outcome, you are delusional.

[AZhitman]

The woman in the red dress trying to tell McCain last Friday that she read up on Obama and that he was an Arab was a good example of the type of people McCain is attracting to his rallies.

Beats throwing bleach in the face of an octegenarian.

[HashiriyaS14]

The woman in the red dress trying to tell McCain last Friday that she read up on Obama and that he was an Arab was a good example of the type of people McCain is attracting to his rallies.

Yeah, this is some of what certain conservative commentators are starting to get tired of.

If some McCain supporters come off as too "nuts" and McCain doesn't adequately set them straight, it will look bad for him.

GRANTED, the way he acted with that one looney woman (I saw the video), seemed EXEMPLARY to me. I think he did a great job.

I don't think it's so much him as it is Palin. He seems pretty willing to restrain the nutcases. She's the one who has people shouting "KILL HIM!" (in reference to Obama) at her rallies in Clearwater. If that was yelled close enough to the mic for us to hear it, she heard it to. What kind of VP candidate doesn't react to that? If they appear to want to let the "fires of rage" burn unchecked, it won't look good for them.

I'm obviously not saying either one of them wants to kill the guy, or that either one thinks he's a Muslim, but just in terms of how it's received politically, they SHOULD publicly squash stuff like that. It looks bad.

[AZhitman]

I'm still trying to figure out how, in Telco's world, NO Dems supported sub-prime lending, NO Dems made money off an unregulated market, and NO Dems opposed reining in Fannie / Freddie.

Oh wait.

That world only exists inside his mind.

[HashiriyaS14]

I'm still trying to figure out how, in Telco's world, NO Dems supported sub-prime lending, NO Dems made money off an unregulated market, and NO Dems opposed reining in Fannie / Freddie.

Oh wait.

That world only exists inside his mind.

LOL, don't argue with Telco. If you're going to argue with an Obama supporter, argue with me.

Some Democrats most certainly opposed reining in Fannie and Freddie, although it was likely due in part because it was potentially popular legislation proposed by the opposing party coming into an election.

Too bad that so many Republicans also opposed it so that they couldn't have forced the Dems to filibuster it and thus they decided to "forget about" the bill, lol. They WANTED to force the Democrats to filibuster what appeared to be smart legislation going into an election, but they couldn't rally their own party's support in the Senate and thus the bill would and could have been defeated without a Democratic filibuster. This would have looked bad, to have a bill be defeated by their own guys, and so they never brought it to a vote on the floor even though it passed committee.

[AZhitman]

I'll go along with that.

Bottom line, there's a party that believes people have a RIGHT to home ownership, and there's a party that believes one has to EARN it.

I'm of the latter persuasion, and unfortunately, those of the former persuasion got their way all too often.

Not the sole cause, but certainly a component we could have done without.

I want to KTFO people whining about foreclosures and gas prices every time I look at my mutual funds since this time last year.

[AZhitman]

Some Democrats most certainly opposed reining in Fannie and Freddie, although it was likely due in part because it was potentially popular legislation proposed by the opposing party coming into an election.

And it's that kind of "cut off your nose to spite your face" party-line horsecrap that pisses me off.

But, we don't keep track of how these morons vote, and we should, and every ignorant decision should result in a flurry of phone calls.

We (myself included) are partly to blame - It's way too easy to be an eleccted official, because voter apathy allows unchecked assclownery.

[HashiriyaS14]

And it's that kind of "cut off your nose to spite your face" party-line horsecrap that pisses me off.

Yeah, I understand the frustration. Both sides did it though.

The Dems by opposing it in committee, the GOP by not bringing it to a vote. That's the nature of politics, people want to keep their seats. Keeping their seat is more important to them than is enacting good legislation and it always will be, for both sides.

For the record, I DO keep track of their votes, lol. In this case there was no vote, but in general, I think that voting record is the best way to assess a politician.

[ishkabibble]

Beats throwing bleach in the face of an octegenarian.

The people at the McCain rallies are GOP supporters. The anarchists protesting the GOP convention have nothing to do with the Dems.

Know what's funny? When the GOP protests occurred, the righties on this forum expected every single left-leaning person to come out and condemn the protesters, as if they were somehow associated with the protesters. Yet, how many righties on this forum have condemned the "kill him", "off with their heads", and "he's an Arab terrorlst" statements from their peers? Zero. Hypocrisy?

[Jesda]

Words are arguably less dangerous than violence. Words can lead to violence. Violence is, however, more violent than words.

Oooh, philosophical discussion time!

[ishkabibble]

Words can lead to violence.

Yep.

[themadscientist]

Know what's funny? When the GOP protests occurred, the righties on this forum expected every single left-leaning person to come out and condemn the protesters, as if they were somehow associated with the protesters. Yet, how many righties on this forum have condemned the "kill him", "off with their heads", and "he's an Arab terrorlst" statements from their peers? Zero. Hypocrisy?

Oh, I am sorry.I didn't realized the Obama campaign needed my comment. Alrighty then.

Chants like that appeal to the lowest common demominator and they have no place in public discourse. I find those people embarassing and pathetic.

I am the madscientist an I approved this message

[HashiriyaS14]

Know what's funny? When the GOP protests occurred, the righties on this forum expected every single left-leaning person to come out and condemn the protesters, as if they were somehow associated with the protesters. Yet, how many righties on this forum have condemned the "kill him", "off with their heads", and "he's an Arab terrorlst" statements from their peers? Zero. Hypocrisy?

This is, admittedly, a pretty good point.

You don't see anyone at Obama rallies chanting about killing John McCain.

The protestors aren't mainline Democrats, they probably aren't Democrats at all. I bet they're all Nader voters, if they even vote, lol.

Compare apples to apples. It's plainly obvious that the "rage quotient" at McCain rallies is much much much higher than at Obama rallies.

[themadscientist]

no Obama supporters sound like thishttp://www.nydailynews.com/gos....html

The Republican V.P. nom would be "gang-raped by my big black brothers" if she enters Manhattan

I would be interested in hearing a black man's perspective on her comments. I find them doubly insulting to Governor Palin and black people. Why "big black brothers", why identify an ethnic group? Why go there? Think about it.

Obama supporters sound like thishttp://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/...age=2

Not God bless America, God damn America.

20 years "the one" attended this church and sat quietly listening to this bull****. He wants to be your president. At least half of us think that is a good idea it seems. The other half, which I count myself as one think it is a decidedly bad idea.

You talk of words leading to violence. Would you call bombing people violence? Bill Ayres seems to think it's a great way to influence society. You know, this guy.

This guy. He seems to hold America in high regard as well.

You can try to delude yourself all you want that he was "just a guy in the neighborhood". Later I will explain that whole Santa Clause thing, get ready, you won't like that either. Just for the sake of argument let's say there is absolutely no connection between the two. Barrack doesn't even like Ayers in this scenario. Ayers likes Obama,,,,,he wants him in power,,,,,that is scary, THAT is damming.

[AZhitman]

The anarchists protesting the GOP convention have nothing to do with the Dems.

Proof?

Yet, how many righties on this forum have condemned the "kill him", "off with their heads", and "he's an Arab terrorlst" statements from their peers? Zero. Hypocrisy?

I think I've spoken plainly about the stupid trailer-park whore who said "I don't like him, he's an Arab."

I've not heard any of the other comments. Then again, I'm glad they're not getting attention or press coverage.

Stupid is protected by the Constitution. Assault is not.

One of your weaker volleys, ish.

[AZhitman]

You don't see anyone at Obama rallies chanting about killing John McCain.

That's because he's earned a measure of respect that transcends politics.

Or, they figure time will act faster than an assassin could.

[HashiriyaS14]

Christopher Buckley resigned from the National Review (his Dad's publication) after they received tons of hate-mail regarding his endorsement of Obama.

He penned another article today about why he left the National Review and his thoughts on modern "conservatism" in general.

Here's a good excerpt, one that well summarizes why I, too, am presently an Obama supporter:

While I regret this development, I am not in mourning, for I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for. Eight years of “conservative” government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case.

So, to paraphrase a real conservative, Ronald Reagan: I haven’t left the Republican Party. It left me.

Here's the link:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/b...fired

Thoughts from conservatives? Agree? Disagree?

[HashiriyaS14]

It would seem that the younger Buckley's criticisms of modern conservatism aren't limited to the present day.

Here he is back in 2006 railing against what Bush 43's Presidency had become and stating, even back then, that he hoped the GOP would lose in 2008.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.c....html

I will admit that I haven't been reading his columns all these years, but I now see that this was a mistake and I will definitely read them henceforth. He appears to be one of the few conservative voices out there that agrees with me in regards to what the party has become, and in this column he articulates it better than I ever could.

Maybe we'll see a new movement of "Christopher Buckley Conservatives" after the GOP screws the pooch in November and has to go re-think itself, lol.

[audtatious]

I've stated time and time again that most of the current GOP representatives don't represent me, a fiscal conservative. I _have_ bashed the Republican party. I _have_ bashed McCain. I _have_ bashed Bush. I also bash the Democrats and the reason I post up so much anti-Dem topics is due to people like Telco who simply believe everything the party says and that they are above it all.

[WDRacing]

Good article

[HashiriyaS14]

I've stated time and time again that most of the current GOP representatives don't represent me, a fiscal conservative. I _have_ bashed the Republican party. I _have_ bashed McCain. I _have_ bashed Bush. I also bash the Democrats and the reason I post up so much anti-Dem topics is due to people like Telco who simply believe everything the party says and that they are above it all.

LOL!

Hopefully none of this has come across as a direct personal indictment of yourself, as it most certainly was not intended to be.

When I ask whether or not people (including yourself) agree or disagree with a column or sentiment, I am asking honestly, I am not posturing in hopes of an inevitable reactionary response (well, except maybe from Wingfeather).

I also understand what it's like to be rooting for a candidate who you consider to be the least of the available evils. I don't think Barack Obama is the ideal Democrat to have in office just like you could probably think of better potential GOP Presidents than John McCain. Stuff gets heated, we argue, we sometimes even take positions we don't totally agree with for the sake of winning an argument. Shxt happens, it's a politics forum. Don't sweat it.

Nice new sig, btw.

Did you read the Buckley articles? What'd you think?

[Jesda]

after the GOP screws the pooch in November and has to go re-think itself, lol.

God, I hope so. I hope it wakes up with a pounding headache and can't find its underwear, like a skank who had 10 shots of tequila and blew every guy at the party. I hope when the GOP goes home, it feels filthy and ashamed of what its done and takes a 45-minute hot shower.

Playing spendy liberal was fun, but its time to get conservative again.

[ishkabibble]

Proof?

Because humans have the ability to compose music. That's good enough proof for anything, right?

Why is the rightie tactic on this forum to make a claim with zero supporting evidence, then expect the opposition to prove a negative? Do your own homework.

Stupid is protected by the Constitution. Assault is not.

One of your weaker volleys, ish.

My point is the hypocrisy of expecting people to denounce things they are not associated with, while not denouncing things that they themselves are associated with. This is not about debating a Constitutional issue, but if it makes you feel better try to rationalize things away, feel free.

I'll take a "weak volley" over a complete failure in critical thinking any day, Greg.

[themadscientist]

Have you apologized for Sandra Bernhardt? I notice you conveinently "missed" my post.