Redline

[DIDNTSEEMECOMINDIDYA]

does anyone know what the actual redline is for the ka engine (DOHC). i havent been able to find it on the net.

[Ubernoober]

Right there on the gauge. 6800 or whatnot.

[GlacierFreeze]

What year? The DOHC in the S13 was 6900 and S14 is 6500.

[Thee 240sx Owner]

does anyone know what the actual redline is for the ka engine (DOHC). i havent been able to find it on the net.

just by the name and the question you can tell he's a ..... i'ma sell my honda and buy a 240... sr swap that bia and run 11's all day long

[DIDNTSEEMECOMINDIDYA]

first off i do own a 240sx, its a 1993, and the redline they give is 6900. second off the gauge they put in the car is always conservative about the redline. and i hate hondas and will never own one a day in my life.

[corn322]

well, where the computer cuts off fuel is pretty much where the line is on the tach. if you wanna know how many revs the ka can take before it explodes, do a search for it. we've probably had a discusion about it already.

[Thee 240sx Owner]

well considering i blew my first motor by reving to 8 a couple times and spinning the bearing... its advised not to rev past 6 ... first off... after 5 the power band drops off like a dead body off a cliff... and second.. after 5 normally you start wearing the hell out of anything that moves at an accelerating rate

[corn322]

except that if you go look on the dyno chart in the "AEM EMS Dyno number" thread, the stock hp peak is at 5500 rpm. torque drops off at 5500 as well.

[Ubernoober]

I think you are confusing "redline" which is simply a mark the factory put on the gauge to let you know you are getting up there, and "rev limit" which is the setpoint in the computer at which it will limit further RPM. In the DOHC I think the computer cuts ignition at 7300.

[Thee 240sx Owner]

except that if you go look on the dyno chart in the "AEM EMS Dyno number" thread, the stock hp peak is at 5500 rpm. torque drops off at 5500 as well.

Please get a life

Model information:Model code: S13Engine code: KA24EEngine: 2.4L 4 cyl SOHCHorsepower: 140 @ 5500 RPMTorque: 155 ft/lbs @ 4000 RPM

Model informationModel Code: S13, S14, S14aEngine Code: KA24DEEngine: 2.4L 4cyl DOHCHorsepower : (hp@RPM) 155 @ 5500 (crank) 125 @ 5500 (wheels) Torque : (ft-lbs@RPM) 160 @ 3600 (crank) 131 @ 3600 (wheels)

[lofapoo]

Damn, if those numbers are correct the S14 torque sure as hell drops early.

[Thee 240sx Owner]

trust me they are correct.. thats from a dyno from scc mag before they did modifications.. also search.. you'll find alot of places that dyno with those same numbers.. and btw.. the reason for the torque drop is the dohc.. the extra valve on the exhaust side pushes more exhaust out which doesnt hold as much backpressure... thats why a sohc has a bit more torque cuz of the exhaust gasses that stay in the cyl

[TogueDrifter]

Does anyone know why the S14 KADE was made with less aggressive cams than the S13 KADE?

[TogueDrifter]

A friend of mine dynoed his S13 SOHC @HP:120 (wheels)TQ:128 (wheels)All he has is the Greddy 3" Cat Back Exhaustand removed the A/C belt... interesting results

[InsanityInc]

and btw.. the reason for the torque drop is the dohc.. the extra valve on the exhaust side pushes more exhaust out which doesnt hold as much backpressure... thats why a sohc has a bit more torque cuz of the exhaust gasses that stay in the cyl

Please stop spreading horrendous misinformation about backpressure. Backpressure is never good, increased backpressure will never help your engine, ever. Also, valves don't push exhaust out, I have no idea where you're getting your information about how engines work. The purpose of the second exhaust valve is to give more exit volume for the exhaust gas to ensure the cylinder is completely (or at least more completely) evacuated. Also, exhaust in your cylinder will only decrease your power as well, why do you think most people bypass the EGR valve?

The real reason why the DOHC KA peaks the torque at a lower RPM is due to the design of the intake manifold, not the valvetrain. The runners are ridiculously long, which gives a large boost in low end torque, as well as giving a recursion-effect boost around (surprise) 3600rpm. If you examine the full torque curve of the DOHC engine, it is far superior to that of the SOHC.

[Dattebayo]

the gauge they put in the car is always conservative about the redline. and i hate hondas and will never own one a day in my life.

First off, the redline that is on your gauge is there for a reason, its not just some conservative estimate.

this thread is funny for this one observation:

Engineers spend countless hours designing and calculating the tolerances of this motor and all of a sudden some guy who owns a 1993 nissan has a better idea than the experts? Not likely. But what do I know, just go ahead and rev to 7500, throw a rod or crack a piston in your 12 year old motor...

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with a honda. In fact it might be alien to you super indestructable 240 guys that there are plenty of ways to bulid a honda that will destroy your 240 with less money than any nissan would take to get to the same level. The only issue with hondas are the people who own them. I have seen horrible things done to 240sx's that make those crazy honda people's cars look good incomparison.

Just so you know, I own a '93 S13 and I dont mean any offense. It just seems that reason has left this thread somewhere.

[FliMSiCaL]

good poit, there is a 91+ s13 around here that has a can, biga$$ wing, front fenders gone, and a primer front lip. Disgusting looking. I own an 89 s13 that i will never part with.

[coolcloo1019]

A friend of mine dynoed his S13 SOHC @HP:120 (wheels)TQ:128 (wheels)All he has is the Greddy 3" Cat Back Exhaustand removed the A/C belt... interesting results

damn thats weird...all i have is catback and a testpipe on a DOHC and put down 140 rwhp and 142 lbs torque.

[4gotn1]

Please get a life

Model information:Model code: S13Engine code: KA24EEngine: 2.4L 4 cyl SOHCHorsepower: 140 @ 5500 RPMTorque: 155 ft/lbs @ 4000 RPM

Model informationModel Code: S13, S14, S14aEngine Code: KA24DEEngine: 2.4L 4cyl DOHCHorsepower : (hp@RPM) 155 @ 5500 (crank) 125 @ 5500 (wheels) Torque : (ft-lbs@RPM) 160 @ 3600 (crank) 131 @ 3600 (wheels)

then why does the fsm say that all power is measured at the rear of the transmission with all accessories running? there numbers are not crank hp there transmission hp output. and wouldnt there be some loss of power thru the transmission? i would think so. as well as with the differental.

as for the wheel numbes those seem to be correct from everything i have seen.

[InsanityInc]

Quote »Secondly, there is nothing wrong with a honda. In fact it might be alien to you super indestructable 240 guys that there are plenty of ways to bulid a honda that will destroy your 240 with less money than any nissan would take to get to the same level.[/quote]Considering you're talking going fast for cheap, I'm going to assume you're talking about turbocharging, in which case you're quite wrong, because turbocharging heavily favors larger engines in power gains and usability. Also, any sort of VVT is largely irrelevant in built engines. I'd really be interested in explaining how you can make a honda so much faster than a nissan for so much cheaper.

[Dattebayo]

Considering you're talking going fast for cheap, I'm going to assume you're talking about turbocharging, in which case you're quite wrong

Actually, I was not talking about turbocharging, mostly because that is in no way going fast for cheap in my opinion. Big example of how not turbo a Honda and still be cheap/quick:

the B20 Hybrid!B20 crv block + b18 gsr or itr head + b16 short geared transmission = 240 ownage.I have seen this particular setup in action plenty of times, it is quite quick.

[InsanityInc]

Actually, I was not talking about turbocharging, mostly because that is in no way going fast for cheap in my opinion. Big example of how not turbo a Honda and still be cheap/quick:

the B20 Hybrid!B20 crv block + b18 gsr or itr head + b16 short geared transmission = 240 ownage.I have seen this particular setup in action plenty of times, it is quite quick.

Unfortunately you said "nissans", not 240s. I guarantee I could buy a beat up 280ZXT or a Z31 turbo and beat the pants off of that setup in a drag race for about a quarter of the price. Also, why are you comparing a built hybrid motor in a car to a stock 240sx?

[Dattebayo]

Well, you are absolutely right about a 280z but that is a Datsun, not quite the same thing. I am refrerring to 240's because we just happen to be in the KA section of the forums and KA24 motors are in 240SX's stock. Aside from the few who actually own Altimas and hardbody trucks, they are the active majority in this tech forum.

Also, I feel the need to mention it because alot of 240 guys think they are unbeatable and fast and blindly hate on hondas without either having worked on them or actually racing a formidable one. I think this whole Nissan superiority thing is just stupid without actually getting your hands dirty on another make.

[InsanityInc]

Well, you are absolutely right about a 280z but that is a Datsun, not quite the same thing. I am refrerring to 240's because we just happen to be in the KA section of the forums and KA24 motors are in 240SX's stock. Aside from the few who actually own Altimas and hardbody trucks, they are the active majority in this tech forum.

Uhh, sorry to break it to you, but Datsun->Nissan was just a name change. Also, by the time the 280ZX turbo was being made, the company was called Nissan, even though it said Datsun on the back of that particular model.

Quote »In fact it might be alien to you super indestructable 240 guys that there are plenty of ways to bulid a honda that will destroy your 240 with less money than any nissan would take to get to the same level.[/quote]So, you're referring to 240's, yet include the verbage "any nissan"? Interesting. Not to mention that you could junkyard turbo a 240 and make it faster than your frankenstein honda for cheaper.

[JimmyMethod]

A friend of mine dynoed his S13 SOHC @HP:120 (wheels)TQ:128 (wheels)All he has is the Greddy 3" Cat Back Exhaustand removed the A/C belt... interesting results

Well, with a 10-15% loss do to the drivetrain, that sounds about right...120HP *.15 = 21HP lost

No too bad for an engine 11-16 years old...but nothing unexpected...

[Fenvy]

first off i do own a 240sx, its a 1993, and the redline they give is 6900. second off the gauge they put in the car is always conservative about the redline. and i hate hondas and will never own one a day in my life.

honda hates you too

[JimmyMethod]

Also, I feel the need to mention it because alot of 240 guys think they are unbeatable and fast and blindly hate on hondas without either having worked on them or actually racing a formidable one. I think this whole Nissan superiority thing is just stupid without actually getting your hands dirty on another make.

I think the major thing is, no NA B-series engine make decent torque, not even B20 franks... Even the H22 isn't anything to brag about, and the rarity of a H22 swap is high enough that almost any honda you're gonna pull up to isn't going to have to torque to beat you off the line (granted I think reving your engine at anything that pulls up to you at a stop light is really foolish and a good way to get tickets) and they SURE as hell can't out handle a well balanced RWD car. I totally agree that they're well engineered little demons, but almost any civic you pull up next to with a 4 inch fartbox isn't going to be able to go toe to toe with a 240SX, or almost any other nissan for that matter. It's an econobox, not a sports coupe. (that's why my insurance is so much higher than my mom's Insight)

[Dattebayo]

any nissan

Yes you are quite right, I mistyped and "240sx" did not make its way into that statement, thusly: "any nissan 240sx" meaning a 240 with a nissan factory installed motor.

I was not talking about a turbo motor. I was taking about the L28 N/A motor.I never mentioned turboing anything and comparing it to a N/A car. Its not logical to consider the two kinds in the same category.

Why are you being so rude? This is supposed to be a friendly conversation and I definately hear a undertone of a fight in your words. I prefer the way JimmyMethod has challenged my words because he is being polite.

[Dattebayo]

I am aware of the torque differences between Hondas and Nissans, specifically in the KA motor. Handling will never be the same as an S-chassis, but I have personally run some N/A Hondas at the track that deserve praise. Since we are in a redline thread it is totally approprate to bring up these cars that have redlines higher than our own. I dont know if it is the weight difference or what, but these cars with tuning and the basic bolt-on mods can carry well against or beat 1990's 4 cylinder nissans with the similar mods.

[JimmyMethod]

I am aware of the torque differences between Hondas and Nissans, specifically in the KA motor. Handling will never be the same as an S-chassis, but I have personally run some N/A Hondas at the track that deserve praise. Since we are in a redline thread it is totally approprate to bring up these cars that have redlines higher than our own. I dont know if it is the weight difference or what, but these cars with tuning and the basic bolt-on mods can carry well against or beat 1990's 4 cylinder nissans with the similar mods.

I think if you got to switch YOUR cams near the end of your powerband, you'd have a lot of top end too, but the thing is, the cars aren't real well rounded. Topend is great if you're looking to get tunnel vision on some abandon country road but peak HP means close to jack, unless you've got some low end and mid power to get to that point.