Read 'em and Weep - C&D Confirms the G35's Superiority

[AZhitman]

After much whining, bitching, and gnashing of teeth from the BMW contingent over the G37's narrow victory over the 335i in a recent issue, Car and Driver has just rubbed salt in the wound.

Now, before the Bimmer-Boys get all butt-hurt, let me point out that in this most recent comparo, the BMW 328i DID come out on top - But the question to be asked is, "How?"

The G35 handily dispatched the Cadillac CTS DI in firm fashion, and brought its A-game against the Mercedes C300 Sport, relegating those two supposed powerhouses to 4th and 3rd place finishes.

But the real story here, is how the G35 CLOBBERED the 328i in every single measure of acceleration across the board:

5.1 seconds 0-60 for the G, compared with 6.1 for the BMW.

13.6 seconds 0-100 for the G, compared with 16.4 for the BMW.

Seven-tenths faster through the quarter-mile. A top speed 10 mph faster than the BMW. 6-tenths faster to 60 from a 5mph rolling start...

And yet the G35 still occupies second place in the comparo - The reason?

The engine noise.

Folks, BMW is playing in Lexus-land, where automakers think we're really interested in an engine that sacrifices performance for quiet.

Give me a three-second lead from 0-to-100 and crank up the radio, because I'm a car enthusiast. And when the engineers successfully isolate us from the enjoyment of hearing a high-revving V6, I'll go back to modding it to be louder and faster.

[audtatious]

335 vs. G37 was very close with the nod going towards the G37 based on oil consumption for the most part. As I reiterate, IT WAS VERY CLOSE with the 335 getting the nod in most categories.

From what you are saying, 325 vs G35 was NOT close at all. 325 gets the nod over engine noise alone? A Sport Sedan is supposed to be luxury quiet? Since when?

335 test sucked for the most part altho it did give the nod to the G (when the G37 was not necessarily the best) and it sounds like the 325 test is......complete bullsheet?

[AZhitman]

The interesting part is this:

They were BOTH at 40dB at idle, and the G was only 3dB louder at wide-open throttle, and 1dB louder at 70mph cruising speed.

I'd challenge anyone to hear a 1-3dB difference...

For 76 more HP and 68 more LB-FT of torque, I'll take the extra noise ALL DAY LONG.

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

IM WITH YOU!

[smockers83]

A Sport Sedan is supposed to be luxury quiet? Since when?

Before I say anything else, I agree with what's being said here.

But the G series is in the luxury division of Nissan, called Infiniti, sport sedan/coupe/enthusiast's car or not. BMW is a luxury car company that makes sport cars.

You will be hard pressed to find someone who can notice the small difference in the decibels. The brain can only process certain increments in anything such as noise, weight, temperature, etc. and at that level of noise, one cannot tell the difference of 1 db.

[audtatious]

10x is "perceived" as "twice as loud"....

[adren77]

3db difference translates to about 40% "louder"... which is significant.

[gwoods]

NICE POST!

You forgot the $5000-$6000 price difference between a BMW and G.

Another spot the G beats the BMW

[Omegamerc]

Interesting, I don't mind the noise at all, no one getting a sports coupe should, unless its an starbucks-drinking-cigar-smoking executive. The only thing I don't get about the G37 is why in the world does it sound like a can rattling at medium RPMs.

[joe603]

3db difference translates to about 40% "louder"... which is significant.

...Actually, +3db is twice as loud as 0db.

I still can't believe that they picked the BMW over the Infiniti due to engine noise

[Kendahl]

I read their article, too. As usual, the 328i won on the basis of driving feel, which is a purely subjective judgement.

Even though it is slower, I considered the 328i coupe before buying my G37. Three things killed it for me -- run-flat tires, no manual transmission cars in stock at nearby dealers, high maintenance costs after the warranty expires.

A 3 db difference in noise level means a factor of two in power. Human beings sense sound and light on a logarithmic scale. 73 db means twice as much power as 70 db, 76 db means four times as much, and 79 db means eight times as much. But, to our ears, they are equal steps of intensity. I have read that 2 db is the smallest difference a person can detect. Therefore, you should be able to notice 3 db, but not 1 db. If you read many road tests, you will see that the noise level at 70 mph is in the upper 60s for quiet cars and upper 70s to 80s for noisy ones.

[adren77]

+3db means twice the power, but only 1.41 the pressure.

Hearing is proportionally sensitive to sound pressure, which means +3 db is only 41% louder, even though it is twice as much power.

Anyways, I chose the G over a 3 series for a good reason. More bang for the buck plus more reliable and cheaper parts. I agree that BMW's have the "feel" that everyone is referring to, but it's not worth it, plus the "feel" of the G is still pretty good!

I think it's retarded that the 328 won solely because of the sound difference. It reminds me of the time Audi TT won over 350Z because of more space in the rear seats.

[smockers83]

A 3 db difference in noise level means a factor of two in power. Human beings sense sound and light on a logarithmic scale. 73 db means twice as much power as 70 db, 76 db means four times as much, and 79 db means eight times as much. But, to our ears, they are equal steps of intensity. I have read that 2 db is the smallest difference a person can detect. Therefore, you should be able to notice 3 db, but not 1 db.

Thank you, someone put it better than I could. 3db may be doubling the noise, but go turn on your surround sound. When you adjust the volume, it does so in decibels. When you turn it up 3db, it isn't twice as loud as it was before to our ears. Use it as an experiment with someone else using your remote to see how many dbs it takes you to notice they're turning it up or down, you'll start to notice it at 2db when quickly changed. They are equal steps of intensity because dbs are measured on a log scale.

[infinitgkid]

you don't how much this improved my day...

i cannont stand those cocky bmw owners, most of them drive around like their s*** doesn't stink...

i should go on a bmw forum and post a link to this topic...

[abdoman]

Why is it that everyone bashes BMWs? I get a little tired of seeing it on this forum. Is it an inferiority complex? Or do you feel threatened?

I have a passion for all cars, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche etc. I'm hear to learn about my new car and every time I check the forum it's the same thing.

[adren77]

It's not the BMW's we hate, it's their owners!

[G_whizz]

i should go on a bmw forum and post a link to this topic...

Please don't do that... Joe and I will have our hands full... besides... that's something they would prolly do.

Why is it that everyone bashes BMWs? I get a little tired of seeing it on this forum. Is it an inferiority complex? Or do you feel threatened?

I have a passion for all cars, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche etc. I'm hear to learn about my new car and every time I check the forum it's the same thing.

It's the price of free speech my friend... but most of the time... usually it starts because a BMW owner comes here to gloat first.. that's fact..

[smockers83]

Its just like what people may think about something offensive on TV or radio, if you don't like it don't read it (same as changing the station/channel). You don't have to read all the BMW bashing posts, I personally don't read most of them, just that this one caught my attention with C&D and my input on decibels.

[W661335PF]

In the big scheme of things--- just... really... how important is all of this?? It must be my age and the fact that it doesn't really matter what others think anymore (unless they're my loved ones), but let's be real here: it's a car, a fine car at that, a machine.... but hardly anything to wrap our identity, self image, or ego around (and hardly anything to bash people we don't even know in real life). This discussion reminds me of the old Amish debates over whose hand-made shirt buttons were most attractive (had the most detail and best workmanship) and stood out. Percieved public image was based on shirt "buttons"- imagine that! So, this debate reminds me of that debate-- minus the reference to their competition as &%$*@#!

Modified by W661335PF at 7:44 PM 12/11/2007

Modified by W661335PF at 7:44 PM 12/11/2007
Modified by W661335PF at 7:45 PM 12/11/2007

[gwoods]

Modified by W661335PF at 7:44 PM 12/11/2007

Modified by W661335PF at 7:44 PM 12/11/2007

Modified by W661335PF at 7:45 PM 12/11/2007

DUDE

That post was modified 3 times in 2 min's and you did it all bold and some !@#$%^&*() for fun. Good thing you don't care about what people think

Do we get a chapter president? Cause I vote for THIS GUY!

[torbach1]

I don't have the article in front of me, but if you look at all of the subjective categories at the end of the article, there are several suspect choices that they made. Anyway, since I upgraded from a 330i to the G35, I'm obviously a little biased towards the Infiniti.

Regarding BMW owners, and our dislike for them, this comes from trolling on BMW message boards where most folks tend to think that BMW's are the only good cars on the road. On this forum on the other hand, while we definitely are favorable to what we drive, we like all sporty cars.

[audtatious]

A 3 db difference in noise level means a factor of two in power. Human beings sense sound and light on a logarithmic scale. 73 db means twice as much power as 70 db, 76 db means four times as much, and 79 db means eight times as much. But, to our ears, they are equal steps of intensity. I have read that 2 db is the smallest difference a person can detect. Therefore, you should be able to notice 3 db, but not 1 db. If you read many road tests, you will see that the noise level at 70 mph is in the upper 60s for quiet cars and upper 70s to 80s for noisy ones.

To dumb it down, it requires 1db SPL (Sound pressure level) to make any difference noticable to the human ear (In this case it is "I think I notice a difference"). 3db is generally noticable and 6db is easily noticable. 10db (or 10x) is perceived as twice as loud. Thus, a car with 50db at idle will be perceived as "twice as loud" inside when compared to a car with 40db.

[rn79870]

I feel cheated. My G isn’t loud at all, at idle, driving, etc. I keep hearing how everyone likes the engine sound, and I keep listening, but I don’t hear it. Maybe I shouldn’t have named mine Pearl. Perhaps a name like Simba, or LionKing or something with more bite would have done it. (I checked, it does have the 3.5V6)

[joe603]

Do you have any intake/exhaust mods??

Throw on a PoPcharger/spacer/MREV2/exhaust...you'll hear plenty of engine growl!

[G_whizz]

Do you have any intake/exhaust mods??

Throw on a PoPcharger/spacer/MREV2/exhaust...you'll hear plenty of engine growl!

[BigWill]

Total agreement here!

I don't even have a full exhaust, just a Greddy axle-back unit, but that, combined with the spacer and the PopCharger... I LOVE the sound it makes! Of course, you do know that all of those mods will result in a decrease in MPG.

Well, it does for me anyway... I love to hear the engine at high revs, so my foot is in it more than before, and I use the electronic shift much more as well. I look at it this way. Most of my driving is in town, as I live very close to work. I average about 13.5 - 14 MPG. Driving easy, the best I have gotten is about 15 MPG. On an average fill-up that's going to result in about $5 more out of my pocket. That's just not that big to me when compared with the enjoyment I receive from driving my car.

[USAF_G35_Guy]

^

[W661335PF]

DUDE

That post was modified 3 times in 2 min's and you did it all bold and some !@#$%^&*() for fun. Good thing you don't care about what people think

Do we get a chapter president? Cause I vote for THIS GUY!

AND EVERY CLUB/TEAM NEEDS A MASCOT-- SOMEONE WHOSE JOB IT IS TO HARASS, INSULT, AND GENERALLY BE AN A$$ WHILE DRAWING ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES.

[G_whizz]

I think it was more sarcasm then anything... no need to get so defensive..

[joe603]