Rb Intake Manifold Project Please Participate!

[Cleveland180]

Hello Niconauts! I am a senior in Mechanical Engineering and I am working on an Engineering Economics Project and I could use everyones help.

I am proposing a start up of a company that produces aftermarket intake manifolds and want to get a poll going to see if there is a market.

Now I have done some studying to see whether or not I think I could make a great intake manifold for the Rb series engines and I may actually do some prototypes if I get good interest.

Currently I have three different materials I would consider using, and I will go through each to explain a little on why then If you could vote I would appreciate it.

The reason I chose this as a project is I feel we are getting shafted on the limitations caused by the over the valve cover intake manifold or the Taiwan eBay special that costs $700!!

I would be making two different size intake manifolds, one made primarily for street (lower end, more practical usable power), and one for the Extreme performance seekers (high end power willing to sacrafice a little on the lower side). My proposed manifolds would be Made in the USA and would certainly come with a fit and workmanship guarantee. Prices would be around $550 for a non-coated manifold.

Cast Steel: This method would be great for mass producing and machining a great product with good ductility properties, the more I would make the cheaper it would get.

Aluminum: Lighter than steel, low specific heat, Easier to machine, con coolant can cause some nasty corrosion if not suited for Al. Welding aluminum is a bit less fun.

Tubular Stainless: Heavy duty, but great asthetics, great strength and high durability. Cons, Fatigue on welds and cost of welders and material.

If you guys could take a second and vote I would appreciate it! Leave comments too! I really do wanna get as many opinions as possible!

Thank you !

[krayton]

good luck with this.

when we design alot of things at work we try not to re-invent the wheel. since the greddy is around and everyone likes it, id start with something like that.

possibly more to a rb20 crowd. and dont forget most of us are cheap bastards. so ideally u wanna combine cheap + fast + reliability.

prove it with a dyno, show that it lasts and make it affordable. gl!

[240z4u]

Cast steel? No thanks dude. I don't want a 45 pound intake manifold. Aluminum is a must.

Quite honestly, stick with one design. Everyone likes the greddy because its the only game in town. I would definitely be interested in a bit longer runner since my car is 98% street. (longer than the greddy)

If you can pull this off, there is definitely a market.

Evan

[streeteg]

+1 on the aluminum. I already have the greddy but it was more of a forced decision due to the fact that chinese stuff is crap and i needed to have the piping on the intake side cause my RB is in a datsun. Definately a market on hybridz for sure....

-E

[Cleveland180]

Thanks for the input so far, the reason I have all these options is because I have to show the costs off all these different options and prove that I am going the right way. I basically have to cost analysis of everything and payback periods on all the machines, and on and on.. appearantley one design is not enough..

an for the "I dont want a 45lb intake mani..." the cast steel wouldn't have to be that thick considering the preassure it would need to hold, but like i said its a project so I have to do that option to make it a little harder on myself.

I personally feel like the greddy design is the same for almost everything, a tailored manifold to the specific engine along with runners tuned for acoustic pulses and such would be something everyone could appreciate... even the cheap bastards that we are.

Thanks again! Keep it Coming!!!

[240z4u]

What about a cast composite intake manifold? I would be VERY interested in something like that.

[DriftingisLame]

Yep, plastic manifolds have been proven on newer vehicles, and they weigh soooo little. I believe all of our new nissans have plastic intakes, other than the GT-R. I'm not sure what sort of pressure it can withstand, but I doubt that would be much of an issue. I'd buy a plastic intake manifold if it'd been proven to be reliable and increase power.

I think RB20 guys are the ones hurting most for manifolds, it would be nice to have an option for rb20's. I would prefer long runners as this thing does not rock the torque department lol.

Good luck.

[Bluefire]

From one ME to another, I'll be honest and say that you are not starting in a good position. Think simple and realistically.

#1 The RB market is complete s*** and really not worth making any parts for. You have to ask yourself how many people in the U.S. actually have RB20's, RB25's, and RB26's. Now how many of them are willing to spend the money on a manifold. You should be focusing on newer vehicles and engines and then maybe make a few custom RB manifolds as side projects. There is a positive correlation between the amount people spend on their vehicle and the amount people spend on aftermarket parts for that vehicle.

#2 Steel should not even be an option. Stick with aluminum.

#3 Do some research on companies that make manifolds...http://www.rossmachineracing.com/http:/ ... .mid=1just to name a few....

[legit240sx]

i think he'll get some decent profit

rb20 most def tired of high cost POS

I would buy one from you

[onepuff]

How about cast aluminum? And I'm in Garfield Hts if you need a tester!

[Fibre guy]

What about a cast composite intake manifold? I would be VERY interested in something like that.

Setting up a poly/fiber setup would be cheap if the plastic injection equipment were around. The cost for one of the SMALL industrial machines is over $80,000. However the mold itself would be about about $1k-$2k being machined out of aluminum or SS in a line of 5 consecutive manifolds in one mold.It would be made in 2 parts and then bolted together. The cost for each manifold would be roughly 300-400 each.I've looked into starting something like this in the future. Composites ftw!

[240z4u]

Purchasing an 80k dollar machine makes no sense. However subbing it out does.

If you build a composite manifold that is flow tested and of high quality, count me in. Ill pull my custom aluminum unit off in a minute.

Evan

[DrifterProdigy85]

Im down for a Cast Aluminum or Sheet Metal design priced around $500.

[Cleveland180]

Thanks for Participating Everyone!!! I am really happy everyone is getting in on this!For those of you saying its not a market worth delving into, have no worries, If I find that I would be able to buy a vertical mill (used) and have the cost of the manifolds sold covered it would be worth it to me. It's not like I am trying retire on the idea, just wanna get my hands dirty and add something to my resume! If the market proves to be good, than don't be surprised to see a build thread coming soon.. If not :-( then so be it.

Thanks again! I am hoping for even more votes and some more input!

[lexrob]

rb20 please!!! If it flows good and feeds them all the same who cares what its made out of. To me what ever is going to be cheaper in the end. Or at least to where the gains would make it worth the purchase. Maybe even fab it to come with its own tb.

I would think when designing a IM TB size comes into play on flow characteristics so just make it one unit! Just a thought. Ill be watchin!!!

[lexrob]

When testing your product make shur you do plenty of dyno plot examples. From wild to stock+bolt on it makes it easier to decide if the purchase is worth it. I mean why has k&n basicly took over the aftermarket.......(who doesnt have one)

[rb25det250sx]

a plastic manifold would be great. if it can withstand the pressure.. but like mustang GTs have plastic PI manis, and they withstand nitrous backfires some times. have seen one get blown apart. but people put them through 100-175 shot of nitrous and 15-20lbs of boost daily.

[lexrob]

I would think heat would be more of an issue with plastic. If you would even think about plastic why not carbon fiber at that point!

[zmannz]

Between this manifold issue and the rarity of parts, not too mention the conflicts arising between steering and turbo/exhausts....

2jz ftw

Plus it's a 3 liter.

EDIT***I was merely adding information I have decided to go with based on the problems and experiences I have learned from with dealing with my personal RB motor swap. It is done and running and has no problems I can find with having a crossover format intake manifold. I have found it a waste of time to try and mod this engine any further than what I have done. I love my 2jz and I love my rb20. The 2jz gets the power out that I want and the rb20 could but would not do it for as cheap as the 2jz, which is in fact a three liter. The 1jz is a 2.5 liter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_JZ_engine Doing a little reading does a brain good!
Modified by zmannz at 1:23 PM 10/24/2009

[Darius]

Thanks for that helpful information. I don't think anybody on this forum even knew that.

[240z4u]

Between this manifold issue and the rarity of parts, not too mention the conflicts arising between steering and turbo/exhausts....

2jz ftw

Plus it's a 3 liter.

2jz is a 2 liter, it says it in the engine code. 3jz is a 3 liter. I am pulling my rb for a 3jz swap.

[rb25det250sx]

lol nice.

[ItzGenX]

Between this manifold issue and the rarity of parts, not too mention the conflicts arising between steering and turbo/exhausts....

2jz ftw

Plus it's a 3 liter.

Why did you just step into the RB section yelling "2jz ftw" and such? That's so totally off topic. We were discussing intake manifolds for RB engines! Go over to the 2jzswap.com forum or something and spew your ideals over there. I am not hating on the 2jz engine (it's great!), but I get tired of bandwagon boys trolling around with off topic crap.

[EVILS14]

Rb30 ftw. And it's a 3 liter

[Fibre guy]

I would think heat would be more of an issue with plastic. If you would even think about plastic why not carbon fiber at that point!

There are actually many problems with using carbon fiber to make a manifold.It is very difficult and expensive to lay up a precision piece such as a manifold flanges or have the provisions for the water, aac, etc... Not to mention heat resistant epoxy is VERY expensive. I am running into the issue of heat and using different high temp epoxies with my carbon fiber coil covers. It's just about 40% of the cost to make the carbon piece.

However the poly/fiber injected pieces are easy to get precise and replicated. They are a poly based plastic with glass fibers to keep them ridged and can take upwards of 700* before failing or warping. They have a similar heat expansion rate as aluminum meaning they would keep a good seal to the head.

[FAST-DATSUN]

Lot of companies have built them, but they we no better than stock, so no sales. If you not going to flow bench them with number for all runner they will not sell better than the China copies of GReddy and the Japanese companies. Most people by looks, but most RB guys want performance and NO lean on cylinder 5&6....

[Darius]

Another alternative is to make an affordable Plazmaman knock-off design out of plastic which uses the lower half of the intake runners. Plazmaman intake manifolds run about $1,000 plus shipping.

Like Mack said, if you can make a manifold that is reasonably priced (~$500 range) AND prove that it improves performance over the competition with bench test data, you will insure your investment. It is easy to make an intake flow better, you just make everything bigger. But to increase the size AND get the tuned resonance, throttle response, and equal flow distribution is a bit more difficult.

[rb25det250sx]

yeah...im telling you. a plastic intake mani could be easily made. and wouldnt be a hassle to flow bench the intake.

[Cleveland180]

yes! Rb20 will be the first if I get enough interest that I am convinced I will sell at least 50. I don't wanna try and get a pattern made and be stuck with 40/50 manifolds lol!! but I do understand the since Rb25's have their F-reddy manifolds that many have already bought I would start out for the underdog! Plus I have an Rb20, so I would have that to do my test fittings! and come the new year I should have access to a BADass dyno and flow bench

[silviasgp06]

a aluminum/cf 2 piece design like Cosworth makes for the 350z would be awesome. With the long internalized runners and such..