RB crank collar / oil pump drive writeup on RACEBREAD

[gawdzilla]

Check it out... time to build your motors guys. http://forums.racebread.com/index.php?topic=1585.0

[Evo_bill]

no cheap mothods?tophat will do it for 400 parts labor and rebalancing.... what do you think?

[gawdzilla]

i think that $400 is the least of your worries. put it this way, to do the $400 of labor you need the following, unless you just want a pretty crankshaft and no motor:

pulling the crank involves what?1) pulling the head2) pulling the pistons/rods3) removing the girdle

once you do those 3 you're instantly out of about $2k because1) you're gonna need the head /block redecked (ask darius about that one )2) gonna need the cyl walls rehoned unless you want to have bad ring seating3) prolly gonna want new piston rings if not new pistons and rings4) rebalance/polish the crank5) all new bearings6) all new gaskets, including head gasket7) trash all your fasteners including rods/mains/heads 8) miscellaneous materials and labor for machining..

so yea about 2-3k now if you want to fix it. time to open up that wallet or buy the evo back

and NOW you are back to a stock 280 hp, which is less than your old evo

[BoostFab]

no cheap mothods?tophat will do it for 400 parts labor and rebalancing.... what do you think?

no! talk to Crankshaft Depot, they charge about 1/2 of that price. they have worked on rb crank such way. i think the crank & stock oil pump gear will be fine if you keep the rev within limits...

[themadscientist]

Ouch. I have been lucky not to shear one like that.

[gawdzilla]

Ouch. I have been lucky not to shear one like that.

none of those pictures in the writeup are "failed" or "sheared" oil pump collars yet. they are factory defects which have been proven to, over time mainly and with high revs/tq to eventually shear which leads to catastrophic engine failure.

i would say 90% of the swapped RBs would see this if they took off their oil pump.. which seems to be OK for stock/close to stock hp levels.
Modified by gawdzilla at 8:03 PM 11/2/2006

[S14-NEO]

well thank god i dont have to worry about that problem...seems how ive got me a newer RB

[klh6686]

oh but you might, we just tore down our neo and found the small drive, might want to check!

[themadscientist]

Can you imagine not knowing this and blowing a $1000 oil pump rather than just the stocker? Daym!

[gawdzilla]

Can you imagine not knowing this and blowing a $1000 oil pump rather than just the stocker? Daym!

well unless you had your eyes closed when installing the new oil pump, you'd see that the drive collar was messed up before you put a new pump on... (which is the intent of our racebread writeup)

[themadscientist]

Your faith in the predomination of "common" sense is misplaced.

There are some real knuckleheads out there with money to burn.

[Carl H]

dude, the machine shop that rebuilt my engine fitted the collar for 50$...400$ is rediculous.

no! talk to Crankshaft Depot, they charge about 1/2 of that price. they have worked on rb crank such way. i think the crank & stock oil pump gear will be fine if you keep the rev within limits...

[Darius]

I'm with Carl. I had my crank magnafluxed, micropolished, and had the crank collar installed for $106.

[98birdls1]

Why do you need to take the head off to get the crank out? Oil pan off, main girlde off, rod caps off, crank out? Leave the rods and pistons in the block. Unless I'm missing something??

But I still agree it isn't an easy venture, specially if you've already installed the motor. And $400 for a little machine work and rebalancing is silly.

Luke

[Darius]

I think it would be tough to remove the crank without removing the rods and pistons because each time you tried to rotate the crank to get at the rod bolt nuts the crank would run into the loose rod ends. Same way with reinstallation. You don't want to be turning the crank with the bearings loosely installed around the shaft. I'm not saying you couldn't do it, but it would take a few extra hands and a lot of extra effort. Pulling the head isn't that tall of a task.

hey 98ls1bird - e-mail me and let me know how your build is going.

[integra7]

Why do you need to take the head off to get the crank out? Oil pan off, main girlde off, rod caps off, crank out? Leave the rods and pistons in the block. Unless I'm missing something??

But I still agree it isn't an easy venture, specially if you've already installed the motor. And $400 for a little machine work and rebalancing is silly.

Luke

I think the point gawdzilla was trying to make is that..... if you decide to repair the crankshaft, you might as well rebuild the bottom end while you are at it.

Seriously, why would you repair just the crankshaft? I wouldn't. Especially with the RB motors that we get (used, unknown history, etc.).

[Evo_bill]

Crankshaft Depot you have the info?

[Darius]

You don't need to send it away to some crankshaft depot shop. Just find a trustworthy local machine shop. Cranks are cranks and a good shop will know what to do when you tell them what you want. I wouldn't want to pay a butt-load for shipping nor would I trust anyone to treat the box with any care. If I can find a good shop in the middle of Iowa, you should have no problem

[Carl H]

the real killer of the oilpump gear is revs, the n1 pump is rated to ~8.6k...anymore and you are on your own.

[gawdzilla]

Why do you need to take the head off to get the crank out? Oil pan off, main girlde off, rod caps off, crank out? Leave the rods and pistons in the block. Unless I'm missing something??

But I still agree it isn't an easy venture, specially if you've already installed the motor. And $400 for a little machine work and rebalancing is silly.

Luke

you can't do the repair with the crank still in the block. crank needs to come out, thus everything else does too.

[jdmser]

I didn't remove anything but the oil pan, gridle, rod cap, and crank. You can see in the picture is still on the hoist. Thought it would be a lot harder than it really was. http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/...age/3

[Evo_bill]

found a local shop willing to do it for 200 or less, labor.

[gawdzilla]

I didn't remove anything but the oil pan, gridle, rod cap, and crank. You can see in the picture is still on the hoist. Thought it would be a lot harder than it really was. http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/...age/3

thats a very creative way of doing it.. good to see you covered the rod bolts too to protect the journals. Most people usually don't leave the pistons/rods in because oem rod bolts are supposed to be torque to yield from what I've read. if not TTY, then they stretch beyond their tolerances and cannot be used again (at least OEM ones).

Have you started the motor yet? if oem rod bolts aren't TTY thats news to me... i'm curious to know if oem rod bolts can be reused or not. i know ARP bolts can be retorqued several (but not too many) times before they are stretched out of spec.
Modified by gawdzilla at 9:02 PM 11/3/2006

[jdmser]

From what I read in the service manuel I have it did not suggest to replace the rod bolts. It had run for over a month and 6 1/4 mile passes before the turbo went.

[gawdzilla]

thats interesting... i guess they can be reused then.

yea, the FSM doesn't specifically say you can't resuse any of the fasteners, but Sean at RB told me he built one reusing rod bolts and it rod knocked at start up.

i'm sure if there was no problem initially the clearances are fine

[jdmser]

One thing I was told is to take the bearing out and wipe the backs and the seating surface clean. Then put them back in and use a ton of assembley lube. It keeps the bearing from spinning during intial start up. Yeah, I couldn't imagine that a bolt that is only torqued to 10.8 ft/lbs would be torque to yield. My fsm has a black circle with a white x through it for everthing that has to be replaced after being disassembled and there wasn't one for the nuts or bolts.

[integra7]

Did you only repair the crankshaft?

If so, why wouldn't you just rebuild the bottom end while you were at it? If the only thing you repaired was the crankshaft, you might as well not even repair it and run the motor as is.

[jdmser]

How long do you think my motor would have made it with no oil pressure? My pump was slipping on the crank. Why would I waste the money bluiding a bottom end when the one I have can handle all the power I plan on making and then some. My bearings still had Nissan symbols and part numbers on them. I don't spend money just to spend money. I wear the sh*t out of the free hat Summit sent with my last order too.

[sil_eightyRPS13]

well thank god i dont have to worry about that problem...seems how ive got me a newer RB

umm doesnt matter....unless its a neo it still has the issue at high RPM's...i had a R33GTR crank and it still happened...collar it or run a dry sump for reasurement

[integra7]

How long do you think my motor would have made it with no oil pressure? My pump was slipping on the crank. Why would I waste the money bluiding a bottom end when the one I have can handle all the power I plan on making and then some. My bearings still had Nissan symbols and part numbers on them. I don't spend money just to spend money. I wear the sh*t out of the free hat Summit sent with my last order too.

I don't really follow everyone's buildup here on nico, so I wouldn't know about your motor or your oil pressure issues. My assumption was that you repaired it because you noticed it prior to getting your motor running. Even then, I don't see any reason to just repair the crankshaft, unless you are on a budget. A couple more hundred and you have a built bottom end, if you do it yourself.