Racingline front and rear endlink review

[mrodrig2]

Which is why the Rear Sway Bar from Stillen is completely useless. The bar is simply more solid-- not shorter or longer. The Racingline Endlinks are adjustable and allow you to control your cornering suspension. they are the obvious choice if you are looking for a suspension mod.

Honestly I have bought the endlinks and not the RSB for exactly the reasoning above.

I don't think that the thicker swaybar is useless. This may be a bad analogy, but think of it like using a firmer spring rate.

[08altima35]

Which is why the Rear Sway Bar from Stillen is completely useless. The bar is simply more solid-- not shorter or longer. The Racingline Endlinks are adjustable and allow you to control your cornering suspension. they are the obvious choice if you are looking for a suspension mod.

Honestly I have bought the endlinks and not the RSB for exactly the reasoning above.

Is this guy serious? Someone please take away his i know what i'm talking about card.

When cornering the beefed up RSB greatly decreases body roll and keeps the car more level giving you more traction at all wheels. The bushings on the endlinks are an awesome upgrade, but all in all the stronger more rigid RSB is going to give you better end results when choosing one or the other. Sorry to bust anyones bubble, but i did do before and after test runs in the same conditions to prove this. I don't have any ties to either company so my opinion is straight forward. I'm just stating my findings of the products, take it for what it's worth.

[maxentropy]

Is this guy serious? Someone please take away his i know what i'm talking about card.

When cornering the beefed up RSB greatly decreases body roll and keeps the car more level giving you more traction at all wheels. The bushings on the endlinks are an awesome upgrade, but all in all the stronger more rigid RSB is going to give you better end results when choosing one or the other. Sorry to bust anyones bubble, but i did do before and after test runs in the same conditions to prove this. I don't have any ties to either company so my opinion is straight forward. I'm just stating my findings of the products, take it for what it's worth.

Yes, the ride is impacted by the more 'solid' part, however a piece of metal does NOT have enough malleability to GREATLY impact the handling of your car. There is just no way. You're right though, I have no degree in metallurgy or anything of the sort but it's common sense that adjustable endlinks would benefit more than a thicker RSB.

Again, I agree 'useless' may have been overkill, but adjustable endlinks are the obvious choice over a stiffer sway bar. By the way-- did Stillen ever indicate why there is no front bar? One would assume you would benefit more physics-wise from that. An adjustable sway bar would have been nice too...

[mrodrig2]

It's not about malleability, its about the rigidity of the bar.

Again I disagree that its 'common sense' that the endlinks provide more benefit than the sway bar. The thicker sway bar does in fact have a very large impact on the handling of the car. The stiffer sway bar maintains the suspension geometry better, ensuring that flex and travel are taken up by the parts that they are intended to be taken up by, (ie the springs, struts, bushings and sway bar) instead of flexing the chassis and inducing roll.

However, this is all just useless arguing unless someone that professionally autocrosses or races is willing to share their team's data and experiences with us. Driving your car hard through some twisty hills is not enough to make claims. Repeatable, high-speed track driving is needed to draw any hard conclusions.

[imdavit]

hahaha some pretty serious stuff goin on here, its okay though cause i purchased both and the RSB is coming on friday, ima install it and try it out. And the endlinks are coming next week so ima try it out and see what caused a bigger difference.

or try at least. no point in arguing anymore really lol.

[Forrest80]

Im thinking 08altima35 knows what he is talking about because he put the items on the car and he feels the difference.

every one on the forum so far has from what i read said Rear sway bar made a world of a difference.

Every thing i read on the endlinks seems a little iffy and 08altima35 is confirming it for me. Im gonna say if he cant feel a difference then me the "average" driver is not going to feel the difference.

so i gotta say thanks to him so i wont waste any money on it.

[Marisha]

If you can afford it, get both! I first picked up the RSB and it did make a world of difference. As it was stated before, the body roll decreased dramatically on turns. Later, more recently, I picked up the endlinks and what a difference they make! Seems like everything is tighter from steering to turning. When installing, I tried to make them the same size as the OEM ones, figuring it's a good place to start. In the words of my bf who has driven the car before and after each of the upgrades, the car is now much more fun and enjoyable to drive! Keep in mind that we are both average day-to-day drivers. For ~$300 for both mods, it's amazing!

[maxentropy]

It's not about malleability, its about the rigidity of the bar.

Again I disagree that its 'common sense' that the endlinks provide more benefit than the sway bar. The thicker sway bar does in fact have a very large impact on the handling of the car. The stiffer sway bar maintains the suspension geometry better, ensuring that flex and travel are taken up by the parts that they are intended to be taken up by, (ie the springs, struts, bushings and sway bar) instead of flexing the chassis and inducing roll.

However, this is all just useless arguing unless someone that professionally autocrosses or races is willing to share their team's data and experiences with us. Driving your car hard through some twisty hills is not enough to make claims. Repeatable, high-speed track driving is needed to draw any hard conclusions.

Agreed, I only have the endlinks and am only going by what I know and I guess my common sense is only the fact I assume adjustability of the endlinks provide more benefit than increased rigidity in the RSB. But again, like you mention unless someone who honestly races can tell us, it's all personal opinions. I agree with Marish, pick em both up and you can't go wrong.

[Alt.ImaCoupe]

Consider also guys that I don't think Stillen or Racingline would sell a useless part. It stands to reason that they both did testing on their parts before releasing them. Unless you completely distrust the companies, I think it's safe to assume that they both improve handling to some degree.

And from my understanding, rigidity in the links and the tortional strength of the RSB is what's important. A sway bar works when you go around a corner because as one control arm/spring unloads or extends, the sway bar, which is attached to the control arm, and pivots on the bushings attached to the body, pushes down on the opposite control arm, minimizing how much it loads or compresses. That's why the car stays flatter, the tires more planted, and corners faster.

[Forrest80]

Consider also guys that I don't think Stillen or Racingline would sell a useless part. It stands to reason that they both did testing on their parts before releasing them. Unless you completely distrust the companies, I think it's safe to assume that they both improve handling to some degree.

And from my understanding, rigidity in the links and the tortional strength of the RSB is what's important. A sway bar works when you go around a corner because as one control arm/spring unloads or extends, the sway bar, which is attached to the control arm, and pivots on the bushings attached to the body, pushes down on the opposite control arm, minimizing how much it loads or compresses. That's why the car stays flatter, the tires more planted, and corners faster.

I trust stillen. I have seen alot of stuff they do and its all pretty positive. I have never heard or Racingline Performance until this forum. But if its such a good upgrade i keep wondering why does stillen not make them? Why would they let racingline take some profit?

[imdavit]

I trust stillen. I have seen alot of stuff they do and its all pretty positive. I have never heard or Racingline Performance until this forum. But if its such a good upgrade i keep wondering why does stillen not make them? Why would they let racingline take some profit?

because... they are nice people.

[Racingline]

short answer:

the endlinks take too much time and don't have enough margin for Stillen to make them.

[08altima35]

okay. i'm done commenting on this thread because most think this is some magically wonderful product that is a hell of a suspension upgrade. Sorry, but the only upgrade is the bushings with this product. The adjustability only goes so far when the shortest setting is within a couple 1/8s of an inch. again, i hit a heavy corner at high speeds with both stock and r.l. endlinks and the final result was the same. until adding the RSB the difference was not something that could be felt, but with the RSB the improvement was a major difference.

And you talk about your "Common sense" You haven't even tried both products and even worse, you bring non-factors to the table that don't back up anything. Way to go

[Alt.ImaCoupe]

So now that RacingLine has chimed in. How bout a summary of the testing you did on the end links and where we should all be adjusting these? If the adjustable links at their shortest are about the same as stock, why would people generally interested in handling make them longer?

[Racingline]

Generally speaking, a properly designed performance sway bar will have a larger effect initially on the performance of the vehicle.

The issue is that the stock endlinks are put at an adverse angel an are much more prone to binding, which will (a)wear the endlink much faster (b) not allow full performance of the sway bar due to the angle the link is situated. The best position for the endlink is as close to 90 degrees as possible which under stationary load.

The benefit of our endlinks shows as follows:

--Adjustable length--reguardless of vehicle height they can be adjusted to reach the 90degree goal, since they can be longer than stock or shorter.

Then longer you make them while still at or close to 90 degrees is what will apply extra pre-load- thus making the rear even more responsive

--Stronger than stock--will resist extreme abuse-- if binding should occur they are much more suited to resisting the loads applied to them, and will therefore last longer and be much more reliable.

--Bushings-- allow for slightly less articulation than stock, meaning part for part they will react faster than stock, limiting the body roll. They also help to protect the hiem joint from debris, allowing a much longer life compared to similar products.

--All major parts are either chrome dipped or anodized-- ensuring resistance from corrosion for a long time.

***Think of endlinks like Struts(analogically speaking)-springs will lower the car and make it stiffer, improving handling (the main goal), but the stock struts are usually not upto the task, and will in time wear out faster and cause their own side effects (i.e poor rebound, unpredictable control in rough conditions), the struts therefore should be upgraded with an adequitly suited set to ensure maximum benefit is achieved. In the reverse situation; performance struts with stock springs will just make the stock springs perform at their maximum potential (ie no side effects).***

cliff notes: endlinks are a COMPLEMENTARY PRODUCT to swaybars NOT a replacement.

Since no front swaybar exists for the 07+altima, the endlinks are your only option to stiffen the front end.

[mrodrig2]

I don't think that the thicker swaybar is useless. This may be a bad analogy, but think of it like using a firmer spring rate.

Think of endlinks like Struts(analogically speaking)

I guess my analogy wasn't bad, just a$$ backwards

[Infantry1327]

I defenetly plan on getting these, but I have alot of other upgrades to do first. Including the rsb. But if a group buy comes around again, I am down. Did anyone on hear get the front endlinks as well.

There has been alot of drama over wether these are worth it. But I really don't care, it is mainly just another thing to add to my list of mods.

[Nicky Altima]

I am definitely getting the RSB and both endlinks..I am hoping there will be another GB soon..

[Marisha]

I got the front together with the rear endlinks.

[Nicky Altima]

I got the front together with the rear endlinks.

Have you installed them? Do you feel any differences?

[08altima35]

thanks for commenting Racingline. Sorry for being such a critic and I'm not displeased with my purchase. The bushings on these end links are brutal and will last for the life of the car and then some.

Another quick question for you guys. I've adjusted mine a couple times and came to the conclusion/personal opinion that settings would be more easily obtained if there was some form of lockwasher between the ends and the nuts. Do you have any reason why one would not want to use something that will lock the setting in place to keep nuts from breaking loose after long term use/vibration/stress?

[maxentropy]

08altima or any of the other folks here who can talk to sway bars-- would a front sway bar be more beneficial or less compared to the rear for our FWD cars?

(while we are on the subject of suspension)

[08altima35]

the front bar looks pretty beefy already. I would prefer leaving it and trying some stiffer dampers if not coil overs because i'm not down for the ones being offered up at the moment. Stiffer/more responsive dampers would be an excellent upgrade to the handling performance of the altima coupe.

but you're the expert here maxentropy so what's your idea?

[Alt.ImaCoupe]

The front sway bar is more important because our cars are so front heavy. More weight = more roll = bigger sway bar (all other things being equal). That's why the stock front is larger than the stock rear.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading a post from Stillen indicating that the problem with a replacement front sway bar was that there was no easy way of replacing it short of pulling the engine because of it's shape and where it is routed.

[maxentropy]

but you're the expert here maxentropy so what's your idea?

Chicks, booze, music, guns, and firetrucks.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading a post from Stillen indicating that the problem with a replacement front sway bar was that there was no easy way of replacing it short of pulling the engine because of it's shape and where it is routed.

Thought that was the case. Shame our engine bays are ridiculously cramped.

[Marisha]

Have you installed them? Do you feel any differences?

Yup, installed same time as the rear, so I can't tell you what difference just the front ones made. Everything feels tighter overall. I'd venture a guess, and an uneducated one at that, that the tighter steering is due to the front endlinks. But those experts on here please correct me if it's not the case.

[Strik3r69]

Racingline...Any info on another groupbuy?? I think there's lots of people on here that want to purchase it?? So how about another round?? THanks

[imdavit]

so last week i installed my RSB and i def felt the difference. Today i installed the Endlinks front and back and not much seemed to change. Now only if someone could do the opposite install the endlinks first then the RSB. I'm not sure if im totally disappointed or not, but i sure shouldve used 2 bucks on a intake first. but o well whats done is done. Now i have a extra mod to the list

and about that thing where you gotta be a racer to notice, mayb thats true if you do race and notice something, but as for a daily everyday driver i def did not notice that much of a difference after i installed my endlinks.

my .69 cents.

[Racingline]

try adjusting them a little or take corners a little bit faster, then try again the next day a touch faster again etc.. ( all within the speed limit of course )

as for the endlinks here is Kyle's opinion from another post. http://www.racinglineperforman...d.jpg

[08altima35]

so are the racingline endlinks short enough at their shortest setting? That's my last question and I'll leave it alone. because compared to stock there is very very little difference in length.