Question about Rb20det.

[uvamosk]

How hard was it hooking up the IC piping on the rb20det?

That was the part I was kinda worried about since the manifold goes over the top...

I have heard you can find some type of adapter to put a rb25 manifold onto a rb20det but who ever made it blitz i think stop making them....

If I buy a rb20det i'll be ordering a front clip... was there any other major things you needed for the swap...?

[Sil240]

Look at some pics and you'll see the lengths that your piping has to go.Unless you get a intercooler with both the entry and exit on the same side.

That Blitz thing is practically Non-Exsistent.You'll never find it, you can have one made though.

It puts the RB26DETT Intake Manifold on the RB20DET

You need to SEARCH some more before you lay down a dime.

If I had to do it again, I would go SR for cheapness and ease and power.And its the lightest motor out of them all.CA i believe is a Iron block like the RB's.

[uvamosk]

I have a Sr20de right now... The only thing sucks is i doesn't have oil squirter. Because as far as I can tell, the Coil packs and the Cam sensor would all just bolt up. I would have to of course get a DET wiring harness. I still cant find any information on if the Intake manifold bolts onto it or not. I would assume it would but then again you know how that goes..

I know the bottom end couldn't take as much as the DET but I could get at lest 200hp out of it I would think... That what my other plan.. LOL

[Sil240]

Now again it comes down to:How much power do you want?How much $$ do you want to spend?

Don't fool yourself, these are the questions you need to ask yourself before making any moves.And always leave in a Shyt fund.Cause Shyt happens.

If you want like 400hp in the long run you can do two things.

1- Get a turbo kit then rebuild your DEYou would have about 200 ish hp now for a motor you know is good and is already in your car. Then you can rebuild it with DET parts and maybe tap the block and buy oil squirters.Then you'll be able to make more than 400.

or

2- Get a DET and then upgrade the turbo and etc. And make up to 400 ish hp on stock internals.

[gbaz77]

heres what i spent on my rb20 swap

$1700 (motorset everything included, but i think they are less now, 1400 or 1500)

400 on mckinney mounts (best mounts arguably for this swap)

$0 for wire prep, its doable yourself

$95 for 255walbro fuel pump

$100 downpipe

$300 catback (3")

$100 for cat (but you can spen $15 on a de-cat instead, i would have done this)

$200 intercooler set including piping

this is essential stuff, but also really all you need to start with. the total here is $2900. if you include new clutch, i paid like $180 for a stage 2 ACT clutch (from a nonturbo 300zx, and btw parts change well with 300zx, even valvetrain parts).... so if you include clutch its like just over $3gs.

the sr20det motorsets can be 3000 more or less on their own. so for about the same money on motors alone, you could have an inline 6 that revs to 8k, or a 4banger aluminum engine with not much more pwr unless you are getting the s15engine.

ive had the rb20det in my car for about a year now, i love it, its different, it sounds worlds better than any sr20 could ever sound (best sounding cars are inline 6....supra, m3, rb20det, 25, 26).

you said you have a good suspension set up, i have ksport coilovers, nothing major, but there is no front end dive, no slugish turning. ive taken it mountain driving and have no problem keeping up with stock evos and wrx's, in turns or power.

issue with installing your IC plumbing is small if nothing unexpected. i put mine in myself. you just need to cut a hole where your battery tray is so as to allow a pipe to run vertically through, or under it as if the hole was facing your enging so as to allow a pipe to run horizontally through. this can be done with a drill and a sawzall. whole on opposite side of engine needs to be widened with sawzall as well.

go rb20det, its great learning experience, its different and the whole balance issue is trivial if not already proven to be no factor at all. if you decide you really need an easier swap, go CA18det. by all means dont do SR unless you turbo your DE. there is no point.

[Sil240]

$200 interFooler kit???Where???Did it fit??

Plus you need a smaller battery.It's just plain DUMB to do this swap without doing the Clutch and the seals.Because to do them after the motor is in.You have to take the WHOLE motor and transmission out again.

$S13 you can get for anywhere from $1700-2500 (front clip)$3000 for like a S14 front clip / S15 motorset

[gbaz77]

its a small intercooler kit. but yes it fit and it works fine for what i have now. eventually i'll go bigger, but i was just listing what the guy needed, not what is possible.

[uvamosk]

Gbaz77

Thank you for your information... just what I was looking for, I really do not know what it is but RB side of the Nissan Forum is so much more informative and a lot more mannered. I asked a question in a Nissan forum and the people that all told me to do SR20det because being different is restarted. When Sr20det's are cheaper and will get you there for less money... anyway, they picked me apart with everything I said... Though the guys with rb25s talked to me just like you guys are and I respect that.

I was thinking of doing the Front clip first. I'll just order it first if I go Rb20det.

You used the mounts since you didn't have a cross mount correct?

What kinda engine parts are swappable from the 300zx? or where you just talking drive train.

I lean to the Rb20det because if I'm going 2.0l It would be better to go across 6cyc instead of 4... but for some reason some people can't seem to understand that LOL...

O last question for now, Was there any issues with the cold pipe going over the top of the Valve cover clearing the hood? and also Is cooling that big of a issue I know the Rb20det being longer makes you have to put the fans on the other side of the Radiator.

[Sil240]

Found that IC for $200 i might jump on it.I already have pipng but need someone to weld it together still.

How is the piping???Any pics?

[gbaz77]

hey uvamosk,

correct, if you have an r32 x-member, you do not need mounts, although it requires some more effort on your part (changing x-members, are simple in # of bolts and whatnot, but not an easy task).

rb20det can change alot of parts with 300zxnon turbo. there is a list in the stickies but some simple things are oil filter, O2 sensor, clutch, even valve-train parts (lifters, shims, valves).

you wont need much from japan except for maybe an original rb20 MAF (however you can use 300zx MAF as well with an SAFC or other computer), maybe a water pump but even that i think not. the myth that parts are hard to get for rb20 has seem to evaded me. i havent had problems, especially for parts that need maintenance.

one thing about sr20 guys, and i have nothing against an sr20, i have friends with them in 240s and they are fast, but the reason rb20 guys are more helpful is that they spend more time on their cars for the install (resulting in more learning and discovery and troubleshooting), and appreciate them more. an sr20 is basically and plug and chug engine. you feel good when you put an engine into a car when it doesnt necessarily belong there.

front view of front mount

view of engine, everything fits fine, no hood clearance issues. and the IC pipe has had no issues going across the variable cam sensor/cam cover.

i ordered a koyo for my engine, but that was because my original radiator was rusted out. ive heard with good electric fans, original KA radiators have been fine. with my KOYO and huge single 12" or 14" (cant remember which) electric fan ive had no problems. in fact, when its cold out, it takes forever to get heat in the car because the coolant stays cool longer.

i agree with the 2.0 liters being split over 6 cylinders. more cylinders per liter equals less work per cylinder. for an easy equation 240hp/6 equals 40 hp per cylinder, 240/4 equals 60hp per cylinder. there is more stress on each cylinder with less cylinders.

one last thing.....the engine out of a bmw 5 series vs the engine out of a 3series bmw is going to cost more in R&D and production, why is it so hard to compare that with the RB, SR engines. Skylines are nissans flagship, the silvia simply is not. more time, energy and money goes into flagship cars anyday than a lower cost car.

gamay

btw - there are so many cheap intercoolers out there. you dont need to spend that much on one there are IC with piping on ebay for $200 or you can get a separate intercooler and separate piping for about the same.


Modified by gbaz77 at 6:58 PM 4/6/2007

[uvamosk]

Thanks for helping, I really am thinking of leaning to the Rb20det. I would like to take on the task. I am more fond of the straight 6 anyway. Although I am no mechanical engineer or anything I just think the 6cyc inline is the best compromise of all engines.

The part about the RB coming from a flag ship and sr20 not is what I was trying to tell people but feel upon deaf ears.

I just think of the Sr20det as a 3sgte I mean its a good engine but it isn't no where near its big brother the 2jz.. by no mean.

Anyway here is the battle I fought on a local forum...http://www.502streetscene.net/...82750

It went to hell pretty fast and don't forget to read the very first post I made as you read the rest of it...

[gbaz77]

hahaha, stick to nicoclub.

[uvamosk]

Yeah, trust me I know.... lol

[rbsileighty]

you wont need much from japan except for maybe an original rb20 MAF (however you can use 300zx MAF as well with an SAFC or other computer), maybe a water pump but even that i think not. the myth that parts are hard to get for rb20 has seem to evaded me. i havent had problems, especially for parts that need maintenance.

i agree with the 2.0 liters being split over 6 cylinders. more cylinders per liter equals less work per cylinder. for an easy equation 240hp/6 equals 40 hp per cylinder, 240/4 equals 60hp per cylinder. there is more stress on each cylinder with less cylinders.

one last thing.....the engine out of a bmw 5 series vs the engine out of a 3series bmw is going to cost more in R&D and production, why is it so hard to compare that with the RB, SR engines. Skylines are nissans flagship, the silvia simply is not. more time, energy and money goes into flagship cars anyday than a lower cost car.

gamay

btw - there are so many cheap intercoolers out there. you dont need to spend that much on one there are IC with piping on ebay for $200 or you can get a separate intercooler and separate piping for about the same.

Modified by gbaz77 at 6:58 PM 4/6/2007

Let me know when you find a lot of companies out there that carry "kits" and whatnot for the RB20 vs say a SR... the parts are out there, but you pay for them b/c the demand is low in all countries... not just ours. Please understand I have an RB20 and love it, but I am realistic in that most of the things used for the motor cost $ (ie my Power FC... vs PFC prices for a SR or RB26).

5 series vs 3 isn't the best argument since they share a lot of motors... but I can sort of see what you mean. Even M vs M of those probably has a similar investment in engine development cost... BMW just isn't a good example due to vehicle volumes. Maybe the VQ35HR in a new G35 vs the VQ that's used in a Altima is a better example. The RB20 and RB26 have campained racing history... which led to development. I'd argue that's the RB20 and 26's strong point. I think that your 6 vs 4 cyl argument with the same displacement in question (6 > 4) is not valid. A pump is a pump... there are a lot of reliable 4cyl motors with high output... and they weigh less to boot.

The argument is as follows: do you want an RB? Yes? Then go RB... but don't bash other perfectly good motors with equal potential only due to the fact that you like one more than the other and without data to back up one vs the other if you really do feel one motor is "better" than the other motor.

Like I said before, it sounds like you want to go RB.... so go RB. Do a lot of reading through the sticky threads... and a lot of google searches... order a motor from a good importer (I'd recommend Jarco if you don't want to fix a lot before the motor goes in the car... you get what you pay for with these things)... and enjoy being part of the RB community b/c these motors are pretty freakin cool

[gbaz77]

hey RBSILEIGHTY,

im sorry to have offended you or anyone who owns an SR (i know you said you had RB), but my point wasnt to put the SR down. i was simply trying to say that for a more expensive car, there is more than just hype. the skyline is nissans flagship vs the silvia. that i think we can all agree on.

where does the money go? design? common now. we know that it goes into chassis, engine, suspension and maybe a little aerodynamics. all. other parts are cheap compared to the R&D done on the main components.

that being said, if the silvia is "just as good" why is it a cheaper car? again im not puting the SR down, its is a world reknown engine. just like the M3 engine is world reknown. but the M5 is better, it just is. there is no denying that.

you made a great example of another engine. VQ, although that is the same engine in both cars, so it isnt what i was talking about.

would you rather have a ferrari 360? or a maserati spyder? both made by ferrari but there is much more put into the 360 modena.

and as far as the cylinder workload goes. that is pure science. the more work a cylinder must do, the higher stress it undergoes. im not an auto expert, but i understand physics. im not saying you dont. and im also not saying that there arent tons of great 4cylinder engines because there are. hell most of hondas 4 cylinders are insane. but the point is there is more stress per cylinder.

and about things being hard to get for the RB. yes some things are understandably harder to get, but they arent impossible as people make them to be. all the important things are easy to get. you can get a gasket kit on ebay easily.

all im saying is sometimes people are just afraid to say things how they are.

RBs cost more to make that SRs. i'll take a porsche 911 before a boxster. i'll take a ferrari 360 over a maserati spyder, i'll take an m5 over an m3. the list can go on.

i chose the RB over and SR.

[lucky7]

i would like to jump in and say that the comparison between the M3 and M5 isnt really realistic. being an enormous bmw fan, you cannot put one in front of the other. they are both made by bmw, certainly not produced to compete with eachother, yet you seem to be able to compair them to each other on a level playing field? same goes for the other cars that you mentioned. there is a reason why they are different. but saying one is 'better', is purely an opinion.

did you ever consider that maybe the skyline got an I6 and the silvia got a 4cylinder because the skyline weighs more, therefore justifying a more powerful engine? or because the car was designed as more of a luxury car, and having a smooth powerband is somwhat important? there could be so many reasons why they RB was only found in the skyline, and not the silvia. i just feel you are going about making your point from the wrong approach.

[gbaz77]

Lucky7, i think what you said is fair. my opinions are a part of my posts.

i apologize about my choice of words. maybe "better" is not the right word i was looking for. thank you for bringing that up, because you are right, better is not the right word. a

however, lets face it. put the M5 engine and the M3 engine in the same chassis and one will outperform the other. and heres a hint, its not the M3.

im making some assumptions in my posts. one assumption is that we are using the same vehicle to put an engine in. the question is, what is the better engine for that vehicle?

im not here to convert anyone to using an RB engine, but i think my posts are pretty straight forward.

i think your argument Lucky7 about the skyline being a luxury vehicle was slightly out of desperation to just argue my points. im sure you could say it is more luxurious compared to the silvia, but then again so are most cars that cost more to make. its hard to sell a more expensive car without some added luxury, but that is not the reason the skyline is what it is.

and one last thing. the engine of a car is not the result of a new product line.that is backwards. it is very much a part of the cause of a new line.

a new product is developed to fulfill a demand. people want some void filled so a product is made.

you could say people wanted a more powerful, bigger, 4wd car with a bit more luxury, thus the skyline was made with those things in mind. the engine was not made to counteract the weight of a new vehicle. a bigger, smoother engine is one of the focal points of meeting a demand. and in this case that demand was something higher than a silvia.

[freakyjason]

This is a very good thread, very informative. However, i find myself still siting on the fence. I am torn between the rb and the sr still. i know there is a lot more support for the sr and being a novice tuner at best, i need all the support i can get. one thing that i dont think has been mentioned in this thread (and is a very big concern to me) is reliability. which engine (sr or rb) is more reliable with light mods? im looking to build a car for daily driving and some fun at the track. I have searched this topic and have found no definitive information. Just wondering what you guys may think.

[gbaz77]

you will find equally compelling arguments for either engines reliability. at the end of the day, they are both excellent nissan engines, which implies both are very reliable.

most people try to equate easy of obtaining parts to extra reliability but that is not the case.

i know many people who had SRs and ruined them for different reasons. bottom line, if you dont care of a car, any engine will be unreliable, and the opposite is true.

if you take care of an engine it will be very reliable.

[Agent 47]

Yep, they both are reliable and rewarding if uou take care of them which brings me to asking this question; I get picked on by my cousins and friends for having a 240 (they all drive f-bodys an sn95's), and this thread have me starting a rb20 fund. So I was wondering driving one with 240whp or so daily and a separate 350whp tune when I go to New Orleans, should easily be able to last another 70k right?

[gbaz77]

easily. probably another 150k if you treat it right.

[Agent 47]

easily. probably another 150k if you treat it right.

. ....... Nuff said, fund started. Even if its stock, the sound of that thing will make them think twice about **** talking.