Question about Dealership (or salesperson) fraud

[mask0425]

C-Kwik, I agree with those calculations 100% except you also have to condider the fact that the ceramics are much better at heat absorption and fade resistance, which may more than make up for that 8.8 ft initial difference in the real world, especially driving here on LA's Westside in bumper to bumper traffic.

I would have to dig up the old mags to confirm the numbers although I am pretty sure both were MT tests. And, yes, you probably right about the MBZ driver being late. I am guessing cell phone factor was involved
Modified by mask0425 at 12:59 PM 4/25/2007

[C-Kwik]

Says who? Ceramics are used in a lot of brake pads. Even those not listed as ceramic pads. Ceramics don't actually absorb heat well at all. In fact, to help balance pad temperature and pull a little away from the contact surface, they use copper strands in the pad material. But ideally, you don't want heat absorbed into the pad. You want it in the rotor, where the vanes can dissapate the heat.

The primary cause of brake fade is pad outgassing. If you're not aware, pad outgassing is when the bonding agents in a pad start to vaporrize and a layer of the gasses formed prevent or inhibit contact between the pad and the rotor. An important factor is the quality of the bonding agent used in the pads. They can boast all they want about other materials, but if the bonding agent is poor, fade is going to be easier to induce. That being said, short of flooring it and stopping at every red light or riding the brake down a mountain, it's not easy to fade a brake system on a public road. It's certainly not easy to start fading a brake in a single stop, or even constant starting and stopping in bumper to bumper traffic. For the average driver, few pads are going to need to have teh fade resistance a performance pad will provide. But everyone can use a better initial bite. This is a reason you see drilled and/or slotted rotors being used by some high end OE's now. There is actually a benefit to using such technologies in rotors.

[juls]

well I'll give a semi-update... he got a hold of the regional manager... and he pretty much said... he can't convince them to do anything... so nothing can be done... or something. Talk about hitting a brick wall... I think my hubby will update later with more specifics...

sorry to re thread jack the other discussion, I know absolutely nothing about cars so I can't comment on it



on a funny note... since our license plate is still advertising for thousand oaks... we were thinking of adding the words "sucks" onto the end of it (you know, the typical Thousand Oaks Infiniti logo all over the frame... we could engrave sucks on the end? ok it was funny in my juvenile mind...)

[mask0425]

Says who? Ceramics are used in a lot of brake pads. Even those not listed as ceramic pads. Ceramics don't actually absorb heat well at all.

Says who? Ceramics are used in a lot of brake pads. Even those not listed as ceramic pads. Ceramics don't actually absorb heat well at all.

That being said, short of flooring it and stopping at every red light or riding the brake down a mountain, it's not easy to fade a brake system on a public road.

That depends on who you want to hear it from. Here is a couple of hopefully authoritative sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake ... ct...&c=BR

You can have the best rotors available, but if you fry the pads, you are asking for it. And, yes, it is much easier to do in daily driving than you think. Not sure where in SoCal you live, but if drive any of the canyons between LA and the Valley (Laurel, Coldwater, Benedict), then you know how abusive this less than 10 mile/60 to 90-minute drive always is. Half of it uphill, the second half downhill, all of it bumper to bumper stop and go.

I also had a friend in college who worked on cop cars and bikes for Burbank PD. He used to tell me how common it was for them to see the car that just left the shop come back hours later after a relatively short chase needing new everything (brakes for sure). This is Burbank, not LAPD!

[C-Kwik]

If it was me and had other transportation, I'd probably be more tempted to apply a large sticker on the car that his broken car was sold to me by Thousand Oaks Infiniti" and find a public parking space in front of or near the dealership. Perhaps along their typical test drive route or something if there is no better spot.

[Q45tech]

Copper in brake pads is an endangered species due to brake dust washing into ground water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

High copper has been associated with various mental diseases.http://www.boe.ca.gov/legdiv/s...w.pdfh ... _d....html

[mask0425]

Funny... but sounds like you'll be denigrating your own car more than anything else. Should you choose this route, do it as a LAST resort and make sure that you are not exposing yourself to a lawsuit. You can also buy a $100 junker from Recycler or Penny Saver and park it on the public street in front of their showroom with some sign or banner.

You can also create your website and name it similar to theirs. For example thousandoaksinfinity.com instead of thousandoaksinfiniti.com since a lot of people misspell Infiniti. Or infinitithousandoaks.com seems to be available... This will also make it come up in Google and Yahoo searches. Just remember that defamation may not be covered by free speech protection.

If you have to fight the dealer in court, make it a Small Claims court where they cannot bring their lawyers and try to pin their counsel fees on you.

Any luck trying to obtain a GOODWILL REPAIR FUNDS from the Consumer Affairs? This way, the manufacturer will pick up some or all of the costs from their marketing budget or some similar program and you can get it fixed at a different dealer who would get paid directly. Again, you would need to escalate your claim to at least a Regional Manager level. Good luck!!!

[champagneG35]

Funny... but sounds like you'll be denigrating your own car more than anything else. Should you choose this route, do it as a LAST resort and make sure that you are not exposing yourself to a lawsuit. You can also buy a $100 junker from Recycler or Penny Saver and park it on the public street in front of their showroom with some sign or banner.

You can also create your website and name it similar to theirs. For example thousandoaksinfinity.com instead of thousandoaksinfiniti.com since a lot of people misspell Infiniti. Or infinitithousandoaks.com seems to be available... This will also make it come up in Google and Yahoo searches. Just remember that defamation may not be covered by free speech protection.

If you have to fight the dealer in court, make it a Small Claims court where they cannot bring their lawyers and try to pin their counsel fees on you.

Any luck trying to obtain a GOODWILL REPAIR FUNDS from the Consumer Affairs? This way, the manufacturer will pick up some or all of the costs from their marketing budget or some similar program and you can get it fixed at a different dealer who would get paid directly. Again, you would need to escalate your claim to at least a Regional Manager level. Good luck!!!

Yeah I did escalate it that far, and actually consumer affairs told me when I asked for the number to the regional manager "uhh that's confidential information we can't give that out we can talk to him on your behalf but you can't talk to him directly". So I hung up and called Oxnard's Infiniti back and one of their salesmen had a number for "Infiniti West" and I left a message on this guys voicemail in the finance department and he in turn had the the parts/service regional manager call me back. At least he gave it a shot talking to both dealerships but because there are markings from the e-brake however they got there (all I know is it wasn't me), he said there's nothing he can do and that the fact I was told it was new and it wasn't was something I needed to take up with the Thousand Oaks GM. Well unfortunately I already tried that route and it got me next to nowhere.

So it looks like the little man gets kicked to the curb once again. So I went ahead and bought this set of track drilled/slotted rotors from Triton Rotors and was then called and upgraded to their premium set which were powder coated black for free due to lack of stock on the zinc plated ones I ordered . I also got a set of Axxis Track Brake Pads. Yes I know they're not brembo rotors but they were way cheaper, had a good write up about them and are made from high carbon steel. I still have a 12 month warranty from them and they even cover cracks unlike it seems Infiniti's 12 month coverage on new brembo rotors.

Now I'm going to see if Oxnard Infiniti will install and put the price I paid for their "opinion" towards the installation. I was already told by the service manager I could buy my own and they'ld put them on for me if worst came to worst.
Modified by champagneG35 at 12:42 AM 4/29/2007