Q45Tech's Suspension Mod

[AlabamaDan]

In another post someone wrote:

Quote »Later, in the day plus at T3, Dennis told me of a suspension mod that he was going to make to my Q! OK, why not! He then put a flat washer at the bottom of each strut, and the nut back on! He was right...the suspension was more responsive! [/quote]Dennis, can you eloborate on what you did? In the near future I will be changing out my struts and such so it would be a great time for such.

[maxnix]

Go back to the original thread. Or read the previous ones.

[Q45tech]

All the Q sway bars have rubber bushings, these bushings have a variable resistance to compression [a spring].

Since the bushings and the coupling rods are mounted midways to the lower suspension arm [a divide by 4 factor is used]. A 4" wheel rise or fall only moves the rod 1".

The bushings are not 1" thick so eventually some of the forces get transferred to the rod and the sway bar.

Solid metal, urethane, nylon, prothane, and rubbers of various hardness are the choice for sway bar bushings.........................careful the oem coupling rods are not strong enough to deal with solid metal and urethane without any give and will break.

Washers compress and stress the oem bushings into acting stiffer as they remove the slop......................you give up bushing life [splits and cracks] for a quicker and stiffer sway bar action.

[elwesso]

a-ha! The poster said it was on the strut but it was on the sway bar. makes perfect sense.

[96Qowner]

Here's a great old thread by DrewQ45 - installation of sway bar and bushings, experimenting with washers, and with pictures:

zerothread?id=170047

[AlabamaDan]

One thing I wonder about and finally have to ask about these suspension mods. While I love a performance car, I also love the ride and feel of a luxury car. One reason I like the Q is that I felt it was a nice median between performance and luxury.

I've installed the FSTB bar from Jeff and soon the Tokicos. If I start changing out the bushings and a washer and stuff will I loose the luxury part of the Q ride?

[Q45tech]

The upper and lower nuts and the lower nut [on front] allow you to adjust the slop [with a washer] to fit your desires.

The rods are only threaded so far to stop over adjustment and compression of oem bushings..................the washer thichness allows that much more compression.

1/16" washer...... extra translates to 1/4" at the wheel ONLY IF you tighten the nut until you run out of threads.

Eventually a scientific owner will learn the car and get to where they can do 1/4 turn adjustments on these nuts for a REAL FINE TUNE.

[maxnix]

I'll have to do this as my rear end has a little too much play even with the 20mm bar. Wish the 22mm were still out there.

[elwesso]

brian you might consider going to polyurethane. I know you dont like that, but it takes the slop out of the stock bushings and you dont have to worry about fine tuning the bushings.

[maxnix]

You're talking about the bar mount and not the end links?

If the former, no noise?

[elwesso]

No i'm talking about the end links, NOT the frame bushings.

The end links caused no more noise or harshness. I am running OEM frame bushings and poly end links in the rear, and all OEM front. I am going to try some poly up front, since the end link and frame bushings need replaced sometime within the next year (you can tell when the end link bushings start to get a little squishy).

The nice thing about the end links for the rear is goto autozone and pick up the 1inch universal end link set, fits like OEM.... about $20 and an hour to install (i didnt even take off the wheels), so if you dont end up liking it, its not a huge loss. I didnt notice any negative effects going from brand new OEM rubber end links to poly. I think i'm going to goto poly up front so it engages at the same time. My rear feels like it hooks up WAY before the front does and that can make it kinda unpredictable.

Tech has always said putting poly in the rear but leaving the front stock may make the bar seem 2mm thicker than it is (due to less slop)...

My plan of attack is as follows, as soon as I find what I like im going to stop.

1. Poly rear end links (done)2. Poly front end links3. Poly rear frame bushings4. Poly front frame bushings.

I dont think i'll end up getting to #4

[maxnix]

OK, I thought Dennis siad the polyurethane end link bushings were what gave trouble in bending the links?

Rear is just a little sloppy and late to engage the rear sway bar for my tastes. But since it is mom's car, I may leave it for safety and adjust the rubber links on my T when I switch the bars.

I sure prefer the roll stifness tuning on the FGY33, but the springs were too bouncy.
Modified by maxnix at 8:46 AM 8/11/2007

[elwesso]

Well doy uo have the bushing cranked down all the way? If theyre not tightened all the way down (you cant really go by torque specs since the nuts have to be seated based on threads)...

I dont see any safety concerns....

Maybe after 60-80k they may bend slightly under hard driving, but at $20 you could afford to replace them every 4-6 years. Ive had mine on for about a year now with no issues, and theyre inspected regularly.

[captainluigi]

wes, i went with your set up after digesting all the options as i saw them. went to auto z & asked for the '' 1'' unerv. end link'' . counter guy says he thought the 1'' would refer to the frame bushings. never the less he came out with a TRW poly end link kit so i picked those up. there is a question in all this. is this the right stuff? will i still gain anything with flat bwasher? keeping in mind that this 96Qt is not a track car, asscar or a buscar. all i really need is to be able to duck & dodge the googans & griswolds as they get middlewise on one of our 42 bridges. have done frnt. w/oem. Niconice.

BTW, really dig the new site format, great thanx to all.

[Q45tech]

Model [measure] all the various rubber components on each wheel suspension.

Remember to include the tires as they are in series with everything.

123 pound inch rear springs in series with top mount rubber and tires net about 103 pounds per inch eventually when things get compressed but start out at 88-90.

A 20mm rear bar without rubber mounts and bushings might get as high as 45 lbs at the wheel and 42 at tire road interface depending on newness and ambient temperature.

As oem mounted it might get to 20 to start and 30 in a 3" roll. [20,25,30]

One gets to deal with infinitely small amounts and numbers to get the feel correct.

If 3" of springs ~~ 300 pounds and 3" of bar ~~ 75 pounds a rear bar only adds 375/300= 25% more stiffness and less than 25% more impact harness usually < 1/2 or 8-12% if both wheels hit a bump or hole at the nearly same angle and time.

Remember to reduce the rear sway by half you have to double the springs or have a sway bar ~~= to oem springs [28-29mm].

[elwesso]

wes, i went with your set up after digesting all the options as i saw them. went to auto z & asked for the '' 1'' unerv. end link'' . counter guy says he thought the 1'' would refer to the frame bushings. never the less he came out with a TRW poly end link kit so i picked those up. there is a question in all this. is this the right stuff? will i still gain anything with flat bwasher? keeping in mind that this 96Qt is not a track car, asscar or a buscar. all i really need is to be able to duck & dodge the googans & griswolds as they get middlewise on one of our 42 bridges. have done frnt. w/oem. Niconice.

BTW, really dig the new site format, great thanx to all.

If you have a rear sway bar then youll be fine, those ones wont work in the front.. I dont know if you have a Q45t or Q45a rear sway bar.. I am talking about end links, not frame bushings.