I realize that this is a real touchy subject given that Texasoil has genunine financial interests involved in rehabing accum's but can anyone help me with the spec's on the schrader valve and pressure I should use to re-activate the "ACTIVE" part of my Q45a. I've read what BluntSmoke has to say and have emailed him direct but as yet have not recieved a reply and I still can't figure out what size shrader to use and what pressure to go with. Maybe I should put in a tyre valve and pump in 3000 psi of Nitrogen and see what happens as this seems to be the info I am getting off this site. If anyone can point me in a better direction it might save another Q45a and a human from destruction. All I'm after is some rough ideas....no commercial warranties just some guide lines to work within... anything to keep an "a" active PLEASE HELP!!!! I'm desperate. Don't put my life in danger by not giving me this info.Aussie Q45a
Modified by Aussie Q45a at 10:02 PM 7/21/2005

Darwin had a thing or two to say about species! We want our Aussie friends to survive.

Tire valves are not very safe above 100 psi. Even the Jumbo Jet airplane variety don't exceed 250 psi.............177psi operating PSI.

Spend some time speaking with companies that maintains bucket trucks [aerial lifts]................think at least 1000 psi would be a safe working pressure for a pressurization valve

"On some light truck applications, special "high pressure" valve stems may be required (refer to the pressure rating of the tires). Most passenger car and light truck valve stems are only rated to a maximum of 65 psi, so if the vehicle has high load tires it will require high-pressure rated valve stems.

Thanks Q45techRead your message loud & clear. Of all the responces I value yours most!!!Be great to chat off line. As you are aware my email is, [email protected] feel free to contact as it's a little bit lonely down here as far as info on the Qa is concerned. Yep! do feel like Darwin with the "Q". Have you ever felt like a pioneer with no refrences. Geees it's exciting, but a feeling of warmth to know the Yanks are behind me all the way!Aussie

The Darwin reference may be to http://www.darwinawards.com/ , not august company to be joining!

Maybe this will help some. If shipping to Texasoil on a tramp steamer is your only choice, I would take it over experimenting Darwin-award style.

Just because it is on the net doesn't mean it is correct or even true. Even on this forum, unfortunately.

Please don't take any discussion permitted here as an universal endorsement by NICO or its members.

Hello Aussieq45,

High Pressure Strut Valves.AN812-1, AN6287-1, and MS28889-2 Pasted from <http://www.aircraft-hardware.com/templa ... gename=hpv> (for reference only)

These part numbers have been standardized and are available worldwide.

You can go with the 3000-psi or the 5000-psi valves.

I recommend purchasing at local aircraft repair facility. In the alternative, I recommend a hydraulics/accumulator repair facility that can also assist you with any further questions.

Scott Jackson and I have provided all the information necessary to successfully recharge the Q45a active suspension.

Q45tech is a wealth of information but unfortunately, in this instance he has not done his research. I have repeatedly instructed to use FAA approved Schrader Valves. Q45tech has either misinterpreted my previous posts or incorrectly assumed that I recommended the use of tire valves.

BluntSmoker

Truth, Liberty, and Justice for All

It was Aussie who brought up tire valves. Q45tech rightly suggested he not consider them.

BluntSmoker wrote:1.) Scott Jackson and I have provided all the information necessary to successfully recharge the Q45a active suspension.

2.) Q45tech is a wealth of information but unfortunately, in this instance he has not done his research. I have repeatedly instructed to use FAA approved Schrader Valves. Q45tech has either misinterpreted my previous posts or incorrectly assumed that I recommended the use of tire valves.

1.) Not to OEM specifications. You have most definitely not demonstrated that.

2.) Could you cite the laboratory studies you have published on this topic?

One can certainly insert these valves, but without modification of the accumulator body to reinforce the area where mounted, I would be very concerned of structural failures at operating pressures. There is no engineering data presented here to determine failure modes.

It is your life and the lives of others in your car and on the road that is at stake if this home repair malfunctions. If you don't have a BSME with a specialization in hydraulics and the proper shop set-up, please don't think you can out engineer Nissan.

Must go disable BS detector from overload.

Take it from an X-Air force Jet mech.

Don't recharge them your self...

yo have a 45,000 dollar car you paid 10% to get it.

spend the money on the first 4 main accumulators...70 % of the ride will come back. after you save a while get the other 5...you will spend a little more then getting all 9 @ once for 1200.00.

Shipping to ausi is not that much its the year 2005 and it only cost alot if your in a hurry to ship thing... IE I could send a package to JP @ 1 lb standard takes 3 weeks to get there but its only 6.00 if you want it there in one week it goes up to 17.00 in 3 days 28.00 2 day 32.50...

just don't rush it.

Keith (Texasoil) will ship them out with a minimal desposit.he has done tones of these he even has back stock..

If you want to "Play" with your own system it will cost you alot more in the long run...

Texasoil Recharge Accumulators = 50-60,000 miles of OEM ride back for only 125.00 each...COME ON a real good set of struts are gonna run you that.

and once there done they will have the valves you need so you may want to recharge them over there instead of shipping them back.

Keith is VERY giving with the Active informaton "IF YOUR A CUSTOMER" he is not guessing about this stuff i have a novel of Active information received from keith... he might even give you Recharging instructions after you buy them...

He has done his research!!!

Maxnix

Once again, your comments are uninformed, unintelligible and uneducated.

In response to my previous post Texoil stated that he drills a quarter-inch whole in the accumulator, cleans out residue, installs Schrader valves and recharges with nitrogen.

Scott Jackson and I have used this same method on our cars.

This is not to OEM specifications because of the installation of the Schrader valves, which were not included by the original equipment manufacturer.

If we were to follow your fuzzy logic new accumulators will have purchased from the dealer or custom manufactured.

Thus, you are once again uninformed.

Next, you asked, “Could you cite the laboratory studies you have published on this topic?”

I never claimed that I published any scientific study on this matter.

I can only surmise that someone like you who demonstrates obvious signs of unbalanced behavior would need or require a scientific study to drill nine holes.

Thus, your question makes no sense is incoherent and unintelligible

Then you state, “I would be very concerned of structural failures at operating pressures”

Well of course, you would be very concerned: you are obviously unfamiliar with accumulators, and are unwilling or unable to comprehend the concepts and theories I previously delineated.

Thus, you have once again demonstrated uninformed opinions, unintelligible comments and uneducated reservations.

Therefore, I will no longer respond to you.

96Qowner wrote:It was Aussie who brought up tire valves. Q45tech rightly suggested he not consider them.

I apologize and stand corrected.

BluntSmoker

I think it’s great you guys have recharged your own systems.

I agree with some of your points. Manix knows his $h1t also.

I don't think you need 2 years of lab research to know if they are working.

But I have family on the road all over and in my Active Q45 and would hate to see someone killed because they didn't do a GREAT JOB there is not alot of play or do-over's on the HWY @ 115MPH.

Where do you recharge your accumulators at?How is the ride Quality?

I think the valve is as important is the cleaning of the drilled accumulator if dust can really F-Up a system just think what a bit of metal shavings would do to your pumps...

Just remember the multi-valve and pumps are not cheap.

There is NOTHING wrong with doing your own system if it is done with safety in mind 1st in foremost.

If you do it your self good luck and remember its a 4300 lb car.

The main point is, FACTORY SPECS DON'T MATTER. As long as you get the correct tap to put the shrader valve in it won't blow out. Don't put in some insane amount of pressure. I went with 600PSI and it works. It's probably undershooting the original pressure when the car was new, but I don't care. It's a safe working pressure and it does give the cushion to the ride. I'll probably go with 900-1000 psi next time I charge them. It's not incredibly easy to clean out the shavings. With sharp drill bits and a sharp tap, it takes longer to clean them than the drilling/tapping took. I have no boroscope but you can see down the hole quite well to see if there's shavings around the top of the piston. Even so, use lots of brake parts cleaner sprayed in the hole and use an air hose to push the piston toward the hole you made and it will all come spraying out fast. Put the air to the hole you made to reset the piston and do it again, and again. It will come clean. Texasoil has mentioned broken piston rings. I suppose it's possible but I don't see that happening since there's no overheating or detonation like engine piston rings get when they break. All my accumulators were fine. I don't know how you would repair a broken accumulator piston ring, but if Texasoil has a way, that's good. Basically, the car weight will set the pressure of the accumulators. You can undercharge them for a firmer ride or go to "factory specs" whatever that may be, for a softer ride. I'm not going to point fingers, but I do get tired of people assuming that the "factory spec" is the perfect setting/measurement and any deviation from this is inviting disaster. The factory may have put 28psi in the tires but maybe you have 35psi in them. You probably won't die anytime soon from exploding tire shrapnel. My advice to the aussie is to just put in a solid metal valve such as the one pictured. Keep it ultra clean. Use 600psi if you want to test it out a bit before going higher pressure. Try farm equipment places for the recharging services. The guy that charges them will probably be happier if you go for a low pressure like 600psi as that point is the first test of sorts for how well you did the job. The accumulators are plenty thick so if you get the proper tap and get the valve in there nice and tight with some red loc-tite, you're good to go. To make everyone happy who is worried about safety... do it at your own risk :p

Being a slow engineer, it dawned on me that there is a specific relationship between the accumulator nitrogen psi and the tire sidewall stiffness, that must be optimized...........for the highway tuning speed.

The active part works below 2-3 Hertz, the passive parts -- springs and nitrogen/tires/body weight works above that to optimize [minimize] the 13/26 Hz tires vibrations

That is why the oem nitrogen pressure was so high in the beginning for the stiff oem tire [higher than currently available 15" tires].

The nitrogen psi must be matched to the tires [brand size model used] at some average temperature and tire psi.............to correct for current tires.

First determine your tire sidewall stiffness in pounds per inch of deflection.

It's a shame we don't have all the early design data or what changes were made in the 94 upgrade.

Seem to remember a group of SAE papers from late 80's and early 90's describing details.

Remember the active springs are quite soft 108 vs 146 front and 88 vs 123 rear and the oem tires were around 1400 pound inches.

right on. made me chuckle a bit. However, we must figure our average driving speed on any particular stretch of road and then go and measure the distance between bumps on that specific road. Then we can figure out what frequency the bumps will have as we drive over them with whatever diameter tires we use. However, the diameter at the contact patch of the tire is what matters and that will change with weight in the car and air pressure, along with sidewall stiffness. But then again, we should all have nitrogen in the tires also as it doesn't leak out as easily as atmosphere... Oh my, we're all DOOMED! :p

If you think about it the Accum Nitrogen pressure rises with tire pressure [Gas Law] as the ambient temp rises.

So I'm sure there is ONE EXACT pressure at one temperature that was found to be just right for the Japanese engineering genius who sorted everything out...............highway bumps [asphalt machine induced/concrete seams] are pretty standarized and known........however the driving speed is the variable.

Now the tires in current use are nowhere near what was used to design the system......a significant problem that cannot be fixed, other than by a software rewrite.......or partially BY somehow fitting a Michelin Pilot Sport tire....closes thing available to the old Sport XGTV.

To Whom It may Concern: TexasOil HAS NEVER , and WILL NEVER post or supply METHODS, SPECIFICATIONS, PRESSURES or any other proprietary information on the reconditioning process used. ANY CLAIM THAT ANY SUCH INFORMATION WAS OBTAINED FROM OR SUPPLIED BY TEXASOIL IS FALSE. ANYONE RELYING ON SUCH INFORMATION DOES SO AT THEIR OWN PERIL AND RISK. WARNING: FAILURE OF HIGH PRESSURE NITROGEN CONTAINMENT (accumulators) MAY LEAD TO FATAL INJURY. USE EXTREME CAUTION AND PROPER PROTECTION

There's a set of recharged Struts in the classified section. Shipping one way shouldn't be to bad. Could be worth it. Might want to check them out. Leave all options open....... We are talking safety here.

red

TexasOil you posted METHODS, SPECIFICATIONS, and PRESSURES on or about 5/26/05 in DIY ACTIVE zerothread?id=118519 where you state in part :

1. "What about the metal chips that fall inside? Can't remove them through a 1/4" hole”

2. “I am the largest single non-aircraft supply purchaser of the aircraft service valves.”

3. “Nitrogen--its the only really cheap supply--about $1.00 per strut accumulator and $5 per main accumulator average-“

Logical deductions and reasoning

1. 1/4” hole is drilled in the accumulators and metal chips need removal.

2. Aircraft supply valves are being used (High Pressure Strut Valves)

3. When recharging with nitrogen you use 5 times more pressure in main accumulator than strut accumulator.

Accordingly, your own words prove the TRUTH and VERACITY of my statements and posts.

Therefore, TexasOil YOU HAVE SUPPLIED YOUR METHOD, SPECIFICATIONS, AND PRESSURES.


Modified by BluntSmoker at 4:18 AM 6/20/2005

"Logical deductions and reasoning" is not a legal part of providing a SPECIFICATION!

BLUNT SMOKER! ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP!

Q45tech wrote:"Logical deductions and reasoning" is not a legal part of providing a SPECIFICATION!

BLUNT SMOKER! ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP!

Thank you. My BS meter has been permanently damaged by the overload.

Of course, do you think it is just a coincidence BS is the same acronym for both?

Supplemental tapping information

Please refer to the diagrams below prior to tapping accumulators and installing the strut valves. It is essential that the proper thread and pitch tap is used prior to installing the

High Pressure Strut Valves.AN812-1, AN6287-1, and MS28889-2

This information is readily available from whomever you purchase the high pressure strut valves from "just tell them you also want the tap, or go the tractor supply, or a hydraulic repair facility".

I have enclosed the diagrams for reference and technical evaluation.

These are the highest quality reproductions I could find on short notice.

BluntSmoker
Modified by BluntSmoker at 11:03 AM 6/20/2005

2 0f 3

3 of 3

BluntSmoker

BluntSmoker wrote:Supplemental tapping information

Please refer to the diagrams below prior to tapping accumulators and installing the strut valves. It is essential that the proper thread and pitch tap is used prior to installing the

High Pressure Strut Valves.AN812-1, AN6287-1, and MS28889-2

This information is readily available from whomever you purchase the high pressure strut valves from "just tell them you also want the tap, or go the tractor supply, or a hydraulic repair facility".

I have enclosed the diagrams for reference and technical evaluation.

These are the highest quality reproductions I could find on short notice.

BluntSmoker

Modified by BluntSmoker at 11:03 AM 6/20/2005

I don't why you posted these....

These have a nut on the outside of the threads...

How will you get inside the accumulators to install these?

I would rather see the specs and white papers for the valves you have installed please.. which of these do you have installed :AN812-1, AN6287-1, and MS28889-2 ?

Thanks for the info.

Don't disrespect Texasoil or Q45Tech here on NICO they state facts.

They have helped more people with there Q's and other fine Infiniti's you OWE them you respect just to post on this board!!!

There is nothing wrong with recharging your own $h!t I respect you for it.

But you cant f{}ck with Q45tech's math!

Texasoils recharge is a great deal if you can recharge you own system for like 100.00 dollars for the valves, recharge, parts cleaner thats great...

I would go for the DIY if I had not worked on jets in the US Air Force and saw what a few metal shavings could do to a system like this.

Best of luck.

This is what happens when you spinout @ 115

fact - A "fact" must only be supported by evidence. A fact doesn't have to be true or correct. The BS meter, which I don't suppose exists other than in imagination, has been probably close to pegging. However, I don't think the needle has been pointing in Bluntsmoker's direction. The sidewalk is dangerous. I'll not tell anyone what it is composed of. (I don't care that I ended with a preposition) Sidewalks can prove fatal if they come into contact with people. Anyone who approaches one without ample guidance, which I'm not giving, does so at their own risk! The valve wouldn't need the nut to hold it into the accumulator because the threaded shell of the accumulator becomes the new nut. Oh no! I just suggested that someone do something not exactly as pictured in some diagram. I'll be slapped with a lawsuit and rot away in jail for the rest of my life being supported only by taxpayer dollars! This forum isn't a dealership. Unless I've got this all wrong, the idea of this place is to exchange ideas and information and to help others out as we wish, with no regard for exchange of currency, if we wish. With that in mind, no one owes anyone anything. I don't owe anyone respect. If I choose to give it then I can. There are critical clearances and the room for deviation depends on the part and its use. Having a rod bearing clearance between say .0025 and .0030" is important, but that's relative just as the nitrogen pressure in the accumulators is relative. That is a whole .0005" margin of error and it will be just fine. While five ten-thousandths may seem tiny to us HUGE creatures, it is a wide margin given the clearances needed to maintain oil film strength on a bearing journal. I've lost track of exactly where I was going with that point, but as far as nitrogen accumulators go, the amount of nitrogen between when the car is new and when the accum. is recharged generally varies between 100% full to right at 0%. Anywhere between there, the nitrogen is doing its job to varying degrees. As for the conclusions based on what texasoil has hinted, I would guess that the $5 of nitrogen in the main accumulators is due to the main accumulators being substantially larger than the little ones and therefore need more MASS of nitrogen to achieve EQUAL pressure of the other accumulators. Bluntsmoker, thanks for posting the good info on the valves. I've been very flippant with my safety and used ordinary tank valves and they've worked just fine. BUT, only do this at your own risk and almost certain peril, people! And watch out for concrete... dang, did I just give a hint about those dangerous sidewalks?

also, what's the difference between respect and submitting to someone else's supposed superiority? It seems to be a gray line around here that gets danced upon like the difference between utilization and exploitation in human/resources relationships. I guess I'm one of the few here who's willing to value bluntsmoker's recommendations as much as any other person who posts on this forum.

.

If I might butt in here:

I've been reading this forum every day for over a year now. I've also posted on other forums, including political forums and stock trading boards, as well as IMs, IRC and other obscure worlds. I've seen all types, from naive newbies to seasoned predators to anarchist flamers.

NICO stands out for several qualities. Unlike many other automotive forums, if you post here you can be sure you'll receive a fairly promt reply, and it will be from people who act like adults. You'll also find that the advice you get is conservative. I like that. I'm sure, if I chose, I could find any number of sites that would offer untested rumor and speculation from people of unknown veracity. I'm sure anyone who has traveled the web is also aware of that kind of forum. I encourage anyone who likes that sort of forum to go post there. NICO consists of people who, for various reasons, simply want to offer what they know about their cars and help others to solve any problems they have.

In my experience in BBs and forums and IMs, when a person's first several posts are aggressive and arguementative in nature, and when that person takes every opportunity to ramp up their aggression when challenged, he rarely turns out to be much of an asset. There are ways to word a post politely - the written word is often different from the spoken word. Newbies can get caught in that dilemma. Failing to adapt to that difference soon gets a person rejected from the site.

Anyone who doesn't like the way this forum is structured should go complain to their parents. The people who have been posting here for years are not their parents and have no responsibility to listen to arguements which have been phrased in language a sassy teenager would use. The people here have been gettin' along jus' fine without them.

So, anyone who would like to contribute to the forum should feel welcome to do so. The seasoned posters will most certainly challenge any unorthodox ideas and methods as they consistantly have, in the past. and if that person can't reply like an adult, then maybe he should just forget the whole thing.

One should always ask oneself why he bothers to post. Often it's a pure ego thing - something that can easily morph into attention-getting behavior.

ScottJackson wrote: The valve wouldn't need the nut to hold it into the accumulator because the threaded shell of the accumulator becomes the new nut. Oh no! I just suggested that someone do something not exactly as pictured in some diagram. I'll be slapped with a lawsuit and rot away in jail for the rest of my life being supported only by taxpayer dollars!

You get the wrong idea I think.I just wanted to see it the threads were tapered on the real valves he used.

I think too little pressure would not hurt (maybe the suspension rubber).I drove my Q on flat accumulators for 15-20,000 miles.

Just make sure you pick the right spot on the accumulator to use as your “NUT”.

A valve under pressure is like a bullet.

I think the jail time would come from the family you could kill if it is not thought out correctly.

I would never want people to stop doing things for them self’s and trying to improve on what’s been made but a 4300 Lb car traveling @ most any speed is a danger in it's self. now add a self-leveling suspension system with 7in of play and springs that only support 30-60% of the cars weight...

I'm all for saving a buck or two.Just be careful there’s ALOT of people out there and you can't replace for them 1200.00 dollars... or get years back of your life if you did go to jail...

ONCE AGAIN!!!

I think it’s great you guys did it...

I might play with an empty accumulator and try to tap it just for kicks.However, that "Green Active Blood" is not cheap and taking off the accumulators takes like a 1 quart each time you remove and bleed one.

GreenQ45a wrote:
You get the wrong idea I think.I just wanted to see it the threads were tapered on the real valves he used.

I think too little pressure would not hurt (maybe the suspension rubber).I drove my Q on flat accumulators for 15-20,000 miles.

Just make sure you pick the right spot on the accumulator to use as your “NUT”.

A valve under pressure is like a bullet.

I think the jail time would come from the family you could kill if it is not thought out correctly.

I would never want people to stop doing things for them self’s and trying to improve on what’s been made but a 4300 Lb car traveling @ most any speed is a danger in it's self. now add a self-leveling suspension system with 7in of play and springs that only support 30-60% of the cars weight...

I'm all for saving a buck or two.Just be careful there’s ALOT of people out there and you can't replace for them 1200.00 dollars... or get years back of your life if you did go to jail...

ONCE AGAIN!!!

I think it’s great you guys did it...

I might play with an empty accumulator and try to tap it just for kicks.However, that "Green Active Blood" is not cheap and taking off the accumulators takes like a 1 quart each time you remove and bleed one.

I just love a passionate debate!!What do we think if I had a professional welder, weld a nut of correct size to the top of the accum and then screw in a 5000 psi ($40Aus ea) FAA approved valve (with red loctight) and then pump in about 1000psi of nitrogen????I'm trying hard to reason logic here .......why is it safe to tell members how to fit Nitro, Superchargers,turbo's etc. but dangerous to let members know a safe way to restore an "ACTIVE SUSPENSION"

I know!!!...... I know!!!....but shoot from the hip anyway GEEEEZ There's nothing like a lively debate!!!!!!Regards AussiePS My hydraulic tech has recommened we use a "ROLLED STRAIGHT THREAD" not tappered.
Modified by Aussie Q45a at 5:26 AM 6/22/2005