q45 sway bar attn:AZHITMAN/WES

[ponzy]

i just wanna ask what happen to the project noted on this thread created 3 years ago:

zerothread/40349

Any replies would be highly appreciated... thank you guys.... THIS forum is the BEST

[elwesso]

Eh, you can get em custom made, but I dont think its worth much... Get your active rear sway bar and call it a day. You could probably MIMMICK a 22mm RSB with poly bushings. I have poly end link bushings and rubber frame bushings and I like the way it works a lot...

[Q45tech]

MIMMICK a 22mm RSB with poly bushings

If the wall thichness were exactly equal unlikely that you would have 46% sloppiness in the rubber end link bushings.

A 20mm with poly might equal a 22mm with rubber during the first 1" of the 3" movement. In the next 2" of body roll it would fall short.

So in the end you would be about 40 pounds short compared to a rubber isolated 22mm bar.............roughly about 8% shy.............490 lbs vs 530 lbs of roll stiffness

Reducing the front 29mm to the active/t 28mm reduces the stiffness created by that bar alone by 13% or 6.5% in total when the springs are added in.

Don't wory about a stiffer than 20mm rear bar until you soften the front.

[elwesso]

Would you agree, tech, that for 99% of driving, that the 20 active bar is more than adequate.. Its not 100% what it should be (on paper), but ideally one would like an adjustable sway bar to fine tune for track use....

Honestly, since I have the 28/20, i wouldnt want the car any more tail happy then it already is... I think its perfect just like it is... I have poly end links out back, and all rubber up front.....

[ponzy]

I know they stopped makin' stillen 24mm RSB, how about 22 mm RSB coupled with poly bushings?, and how can i get some of those end link bushings and rubber frame bushings, from energy suspension? there's one from joe but i think its gonna be more expensive yif getting that 20 mm RSB cause you gonna have to downgrade from 29 mm -28 mm front sway bar with poly bushings to feel a better difference, right? or not.

i'll be fixing my front end in two months might as well improve the handling issues with my Q for BETTER Q.

[maxnix]

If you drive in winter at all, I would be very hesitant to drive with a 22mm rear bar.

Try Q45tech's recommendations before you get closer to oversteer.

[elwesso]

get the 1in kit from energy suspension..... That comes wtih the end links and bushings..... I posted a thread about it when I did it.

[ponzy]

thanks wes,

i cant find the said thread for that. But i found info on your website q45.org. Anyway, with regards to upper link, is the STILLEN adjustable upper link ( http://www.stillen.com/product...t.pdf ) is a good alternative for the OEM upper link with stock springs or it's only good for lowered coil springs? or should be coupled with the sway bars stated below?

[QUOTE=maxnix]If you drive in winter at all, I would be very hesitant to drive with a 22mm rear bar.

Try Q45tech's recommendations before you get closer to oversteer.[/QUOTE

i thought the 22mm RSB 28 FSB is an ideal combination, but since it's not readily available a 20 RSB and 28 FSB coupled with polyurethane bushings will be the best option up to date:

from q45.org: Really ideally would be a 22mm rear bar with the 28mm front bar, but such a rear bar does not exist. Its hard to make the 20mm stiff enough or the 24mm soft enough.

thanks guys..... i'm in no rush right now but a good advice from you guys EXPERT on Q45 will help me a lot and prepare those stuffs when im ready to fix it.

[elwesso]

Let me put it this way... If someone called me up and said "I can either get a 20mm bar from a junkyard for $50 or get a custom 22mm bar made for $250, what would you do", i would tell them instantly to get the 20 and call it a day.... It works great.... I have thought about having a custom bar made for my Q, but I never will do it because its simply not worth the extra effort for what you get. cost benefit analysis.

Dont get those stillen upper links, those things are TERRIBLE. Get the SPL adjustable ones (called the midori style)...

[ponzy]

http://www.importpartspro.com/spl30fradupa.html

[ponzy]

and one more thing WES, i was't able to find a website that offer these:

7.8120 rear endlink set7.8122 front endlink set9.5163 front swaybar bushing for 28mm (5164 is 28.5 mm)9.5157 rear swaybar bushing for 20mm (5157 is 20.5mm) there is no 20mm ....except 9.5124 (non-greaseable)

i am not in a hurry but i want to have some info just in case i'll be ready financially....prolly 2-3 months from now. i wanna take your advice on:

1:) putting 28 mm FSB(rubber/stock bushings); 20 RSB(poly bushings-- i cant find where to look/buy). 2:) FSTB; 3:) tokiko struts rear/front 4:)new strut mount and dust boots;5:) is adjustable tie rod end/upper link on a standard suspension necessary 6:)Are these stuff compatible with an OEM spring( since there's no more CALI SPRINGS avail up-to-date)

thanks for the replies.......if you may, pls post some pics too.

[elwesso]

those parts are wrong.... you want part number 9.8122, the 1" ones.

[ponzy]

those parts are wrong.... you want part number 9.8122, the 1" ones.

maybe that's why i cant find those in any of the websites...thanks...

anyway, maybe you can change the part num listed on your site:

http://www.q45.org/swaybar.html

[superuber]

those parts are wrong.... you want part number 9.8122, the 1" ones.

Wes, that # is good! I have a question.What is the front sway bar link # for the poly bushings?

[elwesso]

ES doesnt make the links for the front (with the ball joint).... For the fronts youd have to use stock links with bushings.... Ive thought about trimmimg some of the generic ES bushings and putting them on that way...

[Q45tech]

The oem front sway bar end link assembly is 2-3 times stiffer than the way the rear is attached........... from 4 vs 2 bushings alone.

And the 28 mm front is 2 times stiffer than a rear 20mm bar so the

One could say as installed to the correct torque the front is 2+ times stiffer roughly 80 vs 40 pounds of resistance per inch of wheel travel.

Since the oem spring are perfect for the with driver and fuel load distribution.............you still have understeer and need to loosen the front bar to create 3/4"/2 or 3/8" slop per side on front..........roughly what the rubber bushings do.

So harder rear bushings work well with oem bushings front if one desires neutral steering and mild power on oversteer coming out of turn [after apex] power on full. IN THE DRY!!!!

Note the front bar has 12" rt angle arms and the rear 6" so you divide front by 2 28/20= 1.4^4 =3.84 or 40x 3.84= 153.66/2= 77-80 vs 40

[elwesso]

Tech, could you explain what the poly frame bushigns do.. They just seem like they hold the sway bar in place and keep it lined up.. Dont see how poly frame bushings would change anything but transmit more vibration/noise.