Q45 struts - help

[cdiver]

PLEASE use a 6 pt not a 12 pt socket. I haven't done the struts on my infinity, but I did do my max and I had a horriable time on one rear strut. Hang in there, and forget about a crowfoot socket, they only round off edges.

Stephen

[OneTimePoster]

well, aside from buying a 6 pt socket and extending the breaker bar...I don't know about hanging in cuz I'm out of any more ideas. I've got a 6 pt deep (spark plug size) socket. I tried it with the breaker inside some pvc. To tell you the truth, I feel like I'm just round the edges of the bolt. I feel like the forces don't end up perfectly aligned and the thing is shearing/rounding the edges of the bolt. Just like you warned a wrench would. So maybe I try a shallow socket? I don't know what else to do.

[DAEDALUS]

You *have* to use quality tools for difficult bolts/nuts. Craftsman is usually up to the task, especially their impact sockets. The softer, cheaper tools are more prone to failure, like you saw, and rounding edges. Greg, the geometry of your car's suspension sitting on the garage floor is certainly different than the geometry of a car jacked up, but maybe that's the key here. If you're saying that there's plenty of room to get to the nut, then perhaps Aaron needs to prop up the axle to change the geometry. One way to do this is to bolt the rotor down snug, set the parking brake, place a stand securely under the rotor as high as possible, and then ***carefully*** lower the car until the axle rises high enough to access the nut. I can't stress how dangerous this can be. If the stand under the rotor slips out, it can shoot out with a lot of force, and, worst case, cause a dangerous imbalance to the vehicle. I hope that doing it this way, leaving the wheel off, will allow enough clearance to get the proper tools in there. Don't rely on the rotor stand alone to keep the car in the air. People have died doing so.

[OneTimePoster]

I'm not sure what bolting the rotor means.

I was toying with a similar idea with putting a jack under the strut. I don't like the idea because even if I get the thing so it feels secure under the rotor, I'm gonna be applying 250 lbs or whatever of torque. That's force all directed to "car off the stand." Nope, that's too far even for me. I'll stick to inhaling asbestos brake pad dust.

If there were a different way to adjust the axle up (or even down, I guess)... ie jack under the differential with struts bolted vs. unbolted???? or a jack/safety stand under the control arm/some other part of the suspension? then maybe.

You know, the odd thing is, the bolt and nut don't move....I guess all the tension is in the bolt/flange. I tried hammering a screwdriver "in" to try to get a tiny wedge (not actually in...just trying to pop the seal against the bracket like a tight jar)......nothing doing.

[DAEDALUS]

By "bolt the rotor" I really meant "nut the rotor". Before putting any large forces against the rotor, you would want to thread the lugnuts back on to keep the rotor in place. Otherwise it might pop off while you have it raised. You could also try jacking the axle up, but this is dangerous too. Jacks roll! Put 800 pounds on one, and if it slips out, it could break something, including your shin or worse.

You could try undoing the lower control arm, but like you said, they might not be any easier. The hard part with that is that you have to have the axle up, weight on, before tightening the control arm fasteners. Otherwise the rubber in the bushings wouldn't sit neutral. If you could do that, you could get to the nut anyway.

[Q451990]

I tried hammering a screwdriver "in" to try to get a tiny wedge (not actually in...just trying to pop the seal against the bracket like a tight jar)......nothing doing.

I'd be careful doing that... you can damage the bushing under and that's really a pain to replace!

So how is your car positioned? Jacked up on the differential with two jack stands? Jacked up on four jack stands? I have mine up on four jack stands at the lift points on the rails and then use a fifth stand under the front cross member and the jack as a safety point under the differential... Makes everything fairly accessable.

I just used the breaker bar/mallet on the bolt with the nut unsecured until I broke everything loose, and then used the wrench to hold the nut in place and turned the bolt out with a ratchet. I don't think it's critical which one you turn.

Worst case scenario, you buy another bolt and cut this one off, but I bet it would be a real pain to cut that one... hard to access and hard steel!

Heath

[OneTimePoster]

Two jacks stands at the rear safety points. Jacked (but no longer)under the differential. Screwdriver didn't work anyways -- its like the bolt is welded to that bracket.

[AZhitman]

I'm at a total loss.

I think at this point I'd drop $20 on a local mechanic to put it on a lift and break BOTH rear bolts loose. We won't tell a soul.

[OneTimePoster]

just so you guys realize I'm not nuts.....the drivers side took me about 3.2 sec to break loose (actually the nuts spinning with the bolt, but I can take o that easy now that the thing is spinning).

$20 for one bolt (assuming I could find such a guy...this IS socal) is kinda difficult to swallow. Plus there's the sheer humiliation of being unable to do it myself.

[elwesso]

Yes.... Take it somewhere and have it done, and get it over with........

[DAEDALUS]

SoCal? Where? You're more than welcome to borrow my 4' breaker, and if you're really close, I'll even come have a look.

[AZhitman]

We have several SoCal members - Let's get Aaron taken care of the NICO way!

[OneTimePoster]

Thank you all so much.

I went and bought a jack. Took out the handle to extend my breaker bar. Had a friend come over. Friend on the breaker bar end. I'm at the bolt end. Instead of pushing up on the breaker, I'm more focused on pushing in on the socket. Keep the forces perfectly aligned, no slipping.

I have not been so relieved to hear a crack in many a moon.

I'm going to get a (translation large quantity) of very well deserved liquid nutrition.

Thank you all again.

[AZhitman]

Well done.

Enjoy your adult beverage(s).

[DAEDALUS]

Great to hear. While you're in there, take a look at the bushing the bolt goes through and see what kind of condition it's in. Likely it's in sad shape, but I think the only way to replace it is to pull the hub off. I tried to do it with the hub on, and I was as frustrated with that as you were with that bolt.

[Q451990]

I think I'd replace that bolt and nut while you're at it... no telling what sort of stresses it's been through to seize that badly. Glad to hear you got it out though!

I'm going to go have a beer or four in your honor now! :beer :beer :beer :beer

Heath

[Q451990]

OneTimePoster...

For when you return, I just discovered that the best way to align the top brackets on the shocks is to look for the spring imprint on the top coil spring bushing. If you're not replacing the bushings, it's extra easy, just line everything up the way it came off - if you're replacing, just have the old bushing sitting beside the new one. The bottom of the spring lines up with an indent on the shock, so that's no problem there. It's just critical that the top mounting bracket is in the right place so that the two top bracket studs will go through the holes in the shock tower when the bottom of the shock is positioned to fit onto the hub. (This should all make more sense as you get into the job)

Heath

[OneTimePoster]

Not replacing the bushing, but ran into a more profound problem. Turning the top nut while the piston rod stays straight. Ugh. Not this again. Methinks this is the point where the spring compressors go back and the local guys at the shop come in.

ps. I coulnd't figure out the big deal with the spring compressors. Went to autozone too. There's two. They have a safety at the spring points. As long as you pay attention to making sure they sit/fit properly I didn't really see the big deal. Certainly not like jacking a car up on 4 safety stands or jacking up a rotor would be.

[AZhitman]

Aaron - only way to undo the top nut is to grip the shaft with a rubber pad and a set of vise grips. Better to leave the swapping of the strut assemby to the pros at the shop. Shouldn't cost more that $10 each at the worst (even in SoCal).

The AutoZone rental spring compressors are a royal PITA. You'll be wrenching on those bastards all day, since you can't use a socket and ratchet (too deep) and using a wrench would take hours.

[OneTimePoster]

You know I agree and am doing it that way. But I gotta tell ya I've been quoted $35 per strut, $30 per strut, and two $20 per strut........ And yes, every time I say "total or per strut?"

[AZhitman]

ouch.

[maxnix]

SoCal? Where? You're more than welcome to borrow my 4' breaker, and if you're really close, I'll even come have a look.

Why everyone should include their location in their profile. What a generous offer.

[OneTimePoster]

indeed, remarkable wasn't it.

[Q451990]

I didn't have a problem with the shaft spinning on the front units, but the rears were a problem. If you'll notice the top of the shaft above the nut is flat on both sides. I used an adjustable wrench to hold the shaft and then an open end wrench on the nut. Never touched the shaft with anything....

Once you loosen it some, then the nut will come off the rest of the way with a ratchet.

Heath

[Rex]

I'm gonna bring this puppy back from the dead.

I just spent 7 (YES 7) hours trying to get the passenger front shock/spring assembly swapped on my 94 (standard). I could not get the bottom of the shock up high enough or the suspension down low enough to line up. I finally decided to try to put the old one back on, and due to it's "worn-ness" I was able to get it on, but the other never made it .

Is there some magic fliberty tool or switch I'm missing?

Please help.

[DAEDALUS]

Try loosening the nuts/bolts in the transverse link and tension rod. If you need more play remove the end link bottom nut too. The caveat is that after you get the strut on you'll need to use a jack to raise the hub back to nominal position (fully loaded) before retightening everything. Rears are the same way, but they have less fight. For the fronts I once had a buddy stand on the hub to drop it low enough.

[Rex]

Robert - THANKS for the suggestions. It will be awhile before I try this again. Actually, I'll either have a fellow victim or I will take it somewhere and PAY someone to do it.

I did remove the bolts from the bottom to try and get "more" travel, but that didn't help, as by myself I could not exhert enough force.

BTW, my 14mm 3/8" deep socket is still there as it wouldn't come off the bolt when I was done .

It's been a long and arduous day, I didn't earn it, but I'm going for some man beverages.

[DAEDALUS]

I did remove the bolts from the bottom to try and get "more" travel, but that didn't help, as by myself I could not exhert enough force.

BTW, my 14mm 3/8" deep socket is still there as it wouldn't come off the bolt when I was done .

You loosened the sway bar nut too? The only thing left is the upper link I believe, but I thought it was free to rotate.Did you try torquing the socket the other way to get it off? That usually works, sometimes it needs a little torsional pop with a hammer.

[Rex]

I took the UL completely loose as well, it doesn't really allow any further travel vertically, just more range of motion.

[elwesso]

One thing I didnt mention is you could ty and rig your hydraulic jack to it... Force it up that way...