Q45 struts - help

[AZhitman]

Now's a good time to upgrade to the Tokico Blue (HP) shocks - a tad stiffer, but MUCH nicer IMO.

Call Alex at Southwest (see our advertisers) and he will give you them for $246. Get the boots and rubber bushings from Joe.

(p.s. Mine didn't need new boots or bushings, they were perfect and very pliable - yours should be OK as well).

[PalmerWMD]

Yes the blues are indeed a worthwhile upgrade.

Fred..

[elwesso]

And if im not mistaken, cheaper than OEM???

[AZhitman]

Much.

[s13sr20chris]

I also want to replace any part that might need it. Has anyone developed a complete parts replacement list for doing a "strut" job. Also since I don't have the shop manual can anyone give me the torque settings for the various nuts and bolts?

Thanks in advance

those upper control arms(front) go out pretty regularly. side note, be sure to use a spring compressor that is in good condition. at the shop i used to work at we had a crappy one. it came apart on me and the spring hit me in the chest. the guy watching the whole thing said he thought i was dead. im pretty sure my survival qualifies as a miracle.:icesangel

[szh]

side note, be sure to use a spring compressor that is in good condition. at the shop i used to work at we had a crappy one. it came apart on me and the spring hit me in the chest. the guy watching the whole thing said he thought i was dead. im pretty sure my survival qualifies as a miracle.:icesangel

Ouch!!!

Z

[OneTimePoster]

Ok, tried a makita electrical impact wrench on the lower strut bolt. Didn't budge. Tried an 18" breaker bar. Didn't budge. Worried I was starting to strip the bolt with the breaker bar. (btw, there is no room to put it on the nut, even with a ujoint....how are you guys doing that????!). Anyways, figure my next and final step is to rent an air compressor and impact wrench.

Question: how big an air compressor will I need? Any special type of impact wrench to buy / avoid? And am I missing something?

[DAEDALUS]

You're turning the nut or the bolt? The nut will be easier since there will be less running friction on it--the bolt has added friction from the forces between the knuckle and strut tangs.

[OneTimePoster]

The bolt. I told you, I cannot figure out any way to get to the nut. There ain't no room (at least I can't figure it out) even with a u-joint on the socket. If there's a secret please lemme know.

Won't an impact wrench work on the bolt?

[DAEDALUS]

Yes, it will. Just trying to save you the expense of renting the compressor for a single job like this. I had good luck with just a wrench on the nut, but impossibly frozen hardware isn't uncommon. A good soaking with PB Blaster apparently works wonders in many cases. You will need to get a wrench on the nut at some point to prevent the nut from turning with the bolt after you break torque. A couple of solid whacks with a hammer might help too. Realize that the interface between the bolt head and the strut flange is where the joint is partly frozen. Once you break that interface, it gets a lot easier. No idea how much torque it'll take to break free though.

[OneTimePoster]

A wrench is fine, I just can't get a socket/breaker bar on it. The problem with the wrench was not enuf leverage. Am I missing something?

whack on the wrench/breaker bar....or whack on the bolt?

[DAEDALUS]

The bolt and nut. The mating surfaces between the hardware and the strut are frozen together (as are the threads). Hopefully by giving the joint enough of a shock, you will reduce the amount of torque required to undo the fasteners. Hit the bolt head and the nut from the side--solid, but don't go crazy or you could swage something together.PB Blaster is like WD-40, but people swear it's a lot better.

[OneTimePoster]

I know this sounds dumb, but I don't understand you. Hit the bolt from *the side* -- you mean hit the bolt perpendicular to its axis? What would I be hitting, the side of the bolt? (or did you mean whack it parallel to axis, and just meant the blow was coming from beside the bolt?)

I could sorta do this gently with a chisel (or even a screwdriver) but I want to make sure first.

Is there anything I could damage?

I can't figure out for the life of me how one would get a hammer on the nut. Is it just me? Isn't there a bunch of metal right there in front of the nuts for the rest of you guys too? I could barely figure out how to place the *can of wd40* to get it to spray on the nut!

(Thanks for the pb tip.....i was googling it when you replied. Apparently there's some specialty stuff called kroil that people *really* love. Oh well, not for me. Gotta get this off tomorrow).

[DAEDALUS]

Hit them normal to the bolt axis (and elsewhere--can't hurt). Normally I'd say you won't damage anything, but if you completely beat on it, you could possibly damage the threads, making removal even more difficult.When you apply torque to the bolt head, there are a few things resisting your efforts. 1) friction between the bolt head and the strut flange 2) friction between the bolt shank and the knuckle/strut tang 3) friction between the bolt threads and the nut. By hitting the bolt, you're trying to cause a *tiny* amount of slippage between mating surfaces, breaking the "weld". There will still be a lot of friction, but any decrease will help.

[DAEDALUS]

This is why I was recommending to turn the nut instead--by doing so you eliminate having to fight the friction on the bolt shank.

[OneTimePoster]

I'd love to turn the nut instead. What are you putting on it. And how?

[DAEDALUS]

I honestly can't remember, but if it's that inaccessible, I may have used a crow-foot wrench with a breaker bar and extension. Or maybe I did turn the bolt, using a socket and 4' extension. I don't have a compressor/impact wrench, and I don't recall having any major hang-ups till I got to strut disassembly.

[OneTimePoster]

also.....if the top strut bolts are taken off and I then jack the car up afterwards, the rear suspension essentially does not get jacked upwards, while the (?drivetrain? / ?frame?) does.

Is that what I am supposed to be doing?

[DAEDALUS]

Probably better to leave the top nuts loose but not entirely removed till after you get the lower bolt off.

[OneTimePoster]

ok so car is jacked, I remove lower bolt (thinking optimistically here), then ?while car is still jacked up???? I remove top bolts (and strut)? What happens to the car?

I totally don't get what is being jacked up and what isn't when the top bolts are off .....looked very weird when I was jacking it up. Half the car was moving up and the other half wasn't.

I wish this were in the manual because I have read every single thread on this topic, done google searches, and I am still having a really hard time figuring out what the heck is supposed happening with what I thought was a relatively simple job.

[AZhitman]

ok so car is jacked, I remove lower bolt (thinking optimistically here), then ?while car is still jacked up???? I remove top bolts (and strut)? What happens to the car?

Nothing - the strut assembly will be easy to wriggle out of the wheelwell. The spring is not exerting any force on the car body or the suspension. It is confined to the upper and lower strut perches.

I totally don't get what is being jacked up and what isn't when the top bolts are off .....looked very weird when I was jacking it up. Half the car was moving up and the other half wasn't.

I'm confused here. You need to jack the car up (front or rear) and put it on jackstands before you even start this job. How about you call me at (602)828-8908 if you get confused and I'll walk you through it.

[OneTimePoster]

Ok....I'm getting frustrated.

The bolt is swimming in PB.I have an air impact wrench and air compressor (250lbs of torque).

Bolt is not budging.

Breaker bar wont touch it, starting to strip the bolt in fact.

I gotta get at the nut. Everyone is saying "do the nut." I have 3 sockets, shallow, deep and spark plug. THERE IS NO WAY I CAN FIGURE OUT TO GET THE SOCKET ON AND THEN ATTACH EITHER THE BREAKER BAR OR THE IMPACT WRENCH.

There is a big piece of suspension sitting right behind the nut. I do NOT have an A model. I am sure I am not the only person who has tried to turn the nut, and I can't be the only person with this pretty substantial piece of suspension obstructing the path behind it. Everyone says turn the nut instead. HOW?! A wrench obviously won't work. Was it really a crow foot wrench....cuz I'm having a hard time believing it.....but I'll go get one if that's the ticket. If not......how are you guys doing this????????? Is there a way to jack the car so that the suspension part moves out of the way.....I was toying with jacking up the strut/spring, but decided this was insanely unsafe. Any other ideas?

This is driving me nuts.

ps. the car is on safety stands right now, TOP strut nuts loosened pretty much all the way to the top.

[szh]

TOP strut nuts loosened pretty much all the way to the top.

But not the middle nut, right? That is what holds the spring in place - from what I understand from reading here, that is removed after the spring is compressed and after when the whole suspension assembly is off the car.

I am very interested in your efforts here. I am going to be trying to do this job myself in the near future, so am a bit concerned at the difficulty you are having! I hope I do not encounter this ...

Can you take a picture and post it? So that we can see which nut and suspension component is giving you the headache?

Z

[OneTimePoster]

Yes, re the middle bolt.

I don't have a digital camera, but if you look at the bottom of the strut (you can see it behind the rotor, even with the wheel on) you can see the bolt going into an inverted U like bracket and coming out to a nut, pointed end of the bolt, and then a big piece of suspension lying directed behind that nut.

Got impatient, tried a crowfoot wrench. Didn't work. Needed a u-joint to attach it to the breaker. Screwed up the levering.

I am sorry. I don't get this at all. Has anybody actually done this job: changed the struts?

(sorry....my frustration level is just increasing exponentially)

[DAEDALUS]

Click here to see a pic

The lower control arm is what's in the way. I'm certain I didn't remove that to get to the nut, and I don't think Hitman did either. So forget the nut and focus on the bolt. I'm surprised 250 ft-lbs didn't cut it. Can you find a long steel pipe to use as a breaker bar extension? I found a perfect one at Sears for loosening the crankshaft bolt. It's a steel handle for a pipe bender, and slides around my breaker bar with almost no play at all. Nothing says "go" like hella torque. I've also done this job on my friend's 300ZX and, again, I don't recall any major problems like what you're having.

[AZhitman]

I talked with Aaron for about a half hour today on the phone, and I'm totally at a loss as well. I just went into the garage in my undies, crawled under the car, and there's nothing in the way of the nut. The closest thing is the rear suspension arm, but it sits 2" above the midline of the bolt/nut.

This is starting to sound more and more like perhaps there has been some subframe damage??

Any possible way to get a pic posted?

Hang in there Aaron - we'll get through this.

[OneTimePoster]

Ok...i'll figure out something to use to extend the breaker bar. But I am **really** worried about that bolt....I can see it starting to shear at the edges when I use the breaker bar (maybe more torque than the impact wrench, maybe its just that the socket tends to move just a little so the forces are not exactly normal to the bolt and that causes the shear). What kind of socket should I be using? (I'm using 17mm....should I use my 12 pt or 6 pt or does it matter? Deep or shallow, or does it matter). Just as an aside, using the breaker bar I actually opened up (cracked down the side) a 17mm socket on this bolt. Yeah, it wasn't the most expensive socket in the world. But still, c'mon.

(yup, the control arm -- I guess -- is right there behind the nut on both sides of the car. There were only 3 bolts, but it looked like it might be as big a beyach to get it off. Those bolts didn't look terribly friendly themselves).

[Q451990]

A pic would be great - something sounds terribly wrong with Aaron's rear suspension. I just came in from working on Q2 - today's project was shocks! Finally getting around to putting in the blues in the rear and all new bump stops and rubber components on all four (fronts were replace at dealer right before I bought her but shocks only). I had no trouble getting the LR bolt off, but the RR was a pain. Soaked it down with liquid wrench and a few minutes later I could break it loose with a breaker bar and rubber mallet. I had no trouble at all getting a box end wrench on the nut and then using an air wrench to turn the bolt side. I just let the wrench on the nut turn itself around until it hit something to hold it in place. The only issue that I've had so far is getting everything lined up right to make sure the forks at the bottom of the rear shocks and the top bolts that go through the strut tower are aligned properly. I don't remember how I did it last time, but I finally figured out that a paint marker is your best friend for getting everything straight. The RF assemby took about two hours inculding going to AutoZone for their loaner compression tools - these ones my dad had on had from Harbor Freight are worthless. I messed with them for a while and then decided that given the alternative, I like my face the way it is. The others less than 20 min each to swap them out - now I just need to remount them on the car.

Heath

[OneTimePoster]

The daedalus pic shows the problem.

I can get a box end wrench on the nut too. I can even get a shallow socket on the nut. But not a socket + anything else that makes the socket remotely useful. Tried the wrench with a hammer, but not enough leverage on the hammer blows (I presume).

We are talking RR exclusively. Haven't gone near the drivers side yet.

[cdiver]

PLEASE use a 6 pt not a 12 pt socket. I haven't done the struts on my infinity, but I did do my max and I had a horriable time on one rear strut. Hang in there, and forget about a crowfoot socket, they only round off edges.

Stephen