Squeefo - You're missing an important component - The consult adapter itself!
Here's the chain from the laptop to the ECU:
Laptop (+software) + USB-Serial adapter (if necessary) + Consult hardware adapter + Consult connector + ECU/consult connecter under dash
Make sense now?
Putting together a Consult ?
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squeefoo
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Re: (RobertsnewQ)
Aha! Thanks!!! This thing: Well it should still be around $100 (maybe over)... beating the stealership for a diagnostic.You may note my very first post in this thread asks what is necessary to do this.
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RobertsnewQ
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squeefoo
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Re: (RobertsnewQ)
Quote »Right, knocked up a quick and very simple design (using MAX232A, EXO-3 as clock generator and one transistor to level shift for tx to the car). ...[/quote]http://www.micra.org.uk/archiv....html
Found this looking around... does it makes sense? ...food for thought?
Thanks for the help Robert!
Found this looking around... does it makes sense? ...food for thought?
Thanks for the help Robert!
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Meaux
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Re: (RobertsnewQ)
I'd buy it in a heartbeat, if it was a complete package for a 94Q45, and all I had to supply was a Laptop...I'm sure others would too...I'm not into puttin "Kits" together... :-)
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squeefoo
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Re: (Meaux)
Found this later in the thread mentioned above... Unfortunately I need a translator...
Quote »The circuit can be split into 3 parts: power supply, clock generator and level converter.
The power supply is required as the chips on the board run off 5V, so using a 5V regulator (7805) you can stick 12V or so in and get 5V out to power the chips. There are some capacitors around to smooth out ripples on the supply.
The clock generator is required as the ECU doesn't contain it's own baud rate generator. Older designs use a fast clock - 16x typically. So, to communicate at 9.6kbaud, you stick a clock in at 153.6kHz. A word about this - the clock doesn't need to be synchronised to the data, so any propagation delays are totally irrelevant.
Cheapest way of generating an accurate, stable clock is to use a timing crystal. These come in lots of speeds but they're all (generally) >1MHz. The PLMS circuit uses a 4060, which is a ripple counter - you stick a signal of frequency f into the input, and out of a set of outputs comes the signal at 1/2f, 1/4f, 1/8f etc. If you use 4.9152MHz crystal and divide it by 32, you get 153.6kHz which is what you need.
Problem is, the crystal speeds that you need can be a little difficult to get hold of (well, Maplins were out of everything and I even developed some PIC code on a 12F675 to divide by any integer value so I could use other crystals!), so I opted for a EXO-3 chip which has an oscillator and divider. If you get a 19.6688MHz (or something like that), you can get 153.6kHz out. These are a bit more expensive (£4 or so), but what the heck...!
And the level converter is because RS232 is specced as a bipolar signal at some vaguely high voltage (I can never remember) - i.e. the serial port data in the back of a PC expects 0's and 1's to be represented by +10V and -10V (or different voltage - I think +/-6V is the minimum). The MAX232 chip uses charge pumps to generate these.
There's one other thing to do - use a transistor to switch the 12V supply to transmit data to the car. The output of the MAX232 is 0V/5V (the TTL side, i.e. the other side from the PC). But the car needs 12V or so sent into it. So, using a transistor you can switch the 12V from the car back into it's input.
I'll scribble down a circuit and post it somewhere for people here. I ought to mention that I'm a bit busy at the moment so things might take a bit of time...
Oh, and last thing - I got some code working tonight that does a proper initialisation and get's the RPM from the car. I'm just downloading the PocketPC SDK so I can transfer it over to my palmtop.[/quote]
Quote »The circuit can be split into 3 parts: power supply, clock generator and level converter.
The power supply is required as the chips on the board run off 5V, so using a 5V regulator (7805) you can stick 12V or so in and get 5V out to power the chips. There are some capacitors around to smooth out ripples on the supply.
The clock generator is required as the ECU doesn't contain it's own baud rate generator. Older designs use a fast clock - 16x typically. So, to communicate at 9.6kbaud, you stick a clock in at 153.6kHz. A word about this - the clock doesn't need to be synchronised to the data, so any propagation delays are totally irrelevant.
Cheapest way of generating an accurate, stable clock is to use a timing crystal. These come in lots of speeds but they're all (generally) >1MHz. The PLMS circuit uses a 4060, which is a ripple counter - you stick a signal of frequency f into the input, and out of a set of outputs comes the signal at 1/2f, 1/4f, 1/8f etc. If you use 4.9152MHz crystal and divide it by 32, you get 153.6kHz which is what you need.
Problem is, the crystal speeds that you need can be a little difficult to get hold of (well, Maplins were out of everything and I even developed some PIC code on a 12F675 to divide by any integer value so I could use other crystals!), so I opted for a EXO-3 chip which has an oscillator and divider. If you get a 19.6688MHz (or something like that), you can get 153.6kHz out. These are a bit more expensive (£4 or so), but what the heck...!
And the level converter is because RS232 is specced as a bipolar signal at some vaguely high voltage (I can never remember) - i.e. the serial port data in the back of a PC expects 0's and 1's to be represented by +10V and -10V (or different voltage - I think +/-6V is the minimum). The MAX232 chip uses charge pumps to generate these.
There's one other thing to do - use a transistor to switch the 12V supply to transmit data to the car. The output of the MAX232 is 0V/5V (the TTL side, i.e. the other side from the PC). But the car needs 12V or so sent into it. So, using a transistor you can switch the 12V from the car back into it's input.
I'll scribble down a circuit and post it somewhere for people here. I ought to mention that I'm a bit busy at the moment so things might take a bit of time...
Oh, and last thing - I got some code working tonight that does a proper initialisation and get's the RPM from the car. I'm just downloading the PocketPC SDK so I can transfer it over to my palmtop.[/quote]
Re: (defrag010)
Can anyone answer my question?defrag010 wrote:What is the programmability like?Is Consult strictly a datalogging setup, or can you really do like I read somewhere above and alter fuel and timing maps?
If you can change timing and fuel maps with conzult or ecutalk, will the changes stay or will they re-set each time you shut the power off?
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Q45tech
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Re: (RobertsnewQ)
Made perfect sense to me [as a BSEE]. By the way a SDK is a Software Development Kit.
Just buy the preassembled interface kit.
Just buy the preassembled interface kit.
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squeefoo
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Re: (Q45tech)
O.K. ..............Thanks for all the help with this...Q45tech wrote:Made perfect sense to me [as a BSEE]. By the way a SDK is a Software Development Kit.
Just buy the preassembled interface kit.
For some strange reason I thought this website was about helping each other with our Q cars and making them better.
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Q45tech
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Re: (squeefoo)
The OEM Consult I can temporarily Modify a few parameters as long as it is connected to ecu but only one at a time and not permanently [power off/ or just change screens and ecu reverts to stored programs]..........also the data update time is too slow to use as in a race.
It is a diagnostic tool primarily used at idle rpm if such changes are applied.
I have never tried to change things [fake the ignition advance or lean/rich injectors] and drive the car because in the change mode you cannot see the data. You could cause damage without seeing what is happening.
It seems self protective in that it drops communication if you use it in drive above a certain speed 25 mph in any other mode other than data output at times. ????
My previous comment was addressed to the post before yours! All the complicated engineering design software in the box. "Need a translator"
It is a diagnostic tool primarily used at idle rpm if such changes are applied.
I have never tried to change things [fake the ignition advance or lean/rich injectors] and drive the car because in the change mode you cannot see the data. You could cause damage without seeing what is happening.
It seems self protective in that it drops communication if you use it in drive above a certain speed 25 mph in any other mode other than data output at times. ????
My previous comment was addressed to the post before yours! All the complicated engineering design software in the box. "Need a translator"
there isnt an protection for speed - the consult output should continue regardless of speed. maybe your hardware or something is a bit flimsy
at this stage ecutalk doesnt have active tests (active tests being the temporary changes to ign timing/fuel, cylinders on/off, etc), but will sometime in future. active tests arent all that useful (being temporary) aside from diagnostics if something is going wrong. btw i think its possible to have an active test operating whilst reading data.
you could very theoretically (and awkwardly) run slightly larger injectors on stock ecu without by changing the fuel injection time, but this would need to be reapplied each time the car is started. idle may be a bit messed up though. im sure theres plenty of stuff you could find uses for in consult, most of it would be monitoring and information purposes, as well as obvious diagnostic information.
you can also read the rom of your ecu (for remaps), but you cannot permanently change anything on it (without a daughtboard)
at this stage ecutalk doesnt have active tests (active tests being the temporary changes to ign timing/fuel, cylinders on/off, etc), but will sometime in future. active tests arent all that useful (being temporary) aside from diagnostics if something is going wrong. btw i think its possible to have an active test operating whilst reading data.
you could very theoretically (and awkwardly) run slightly larger injectors on stock ecu without by changing the fuel injection time, but this would need to be reapplied each time the car is started. idle may be a bit messed up though. im sure theres plenty of stuff you could find uses for in consult, most of it would be monitoring and information purposes, as well as obvious diagnostic information.
you can also read the rom of your ecu (for remaps), but you cannot permanently change anything on it (without a daughtboard)
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RobertsnewQ
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Basically that excerpt above is describing the properties of the consult communications bus.
DOn't worry about the details, just buy one of the assembled interfaces. Either the PLMS board, the DIY/ebay board or something similar.
Don't use the Zcontrol board it doesn't handle the ECU tx side of the communications very well.
THe failsafe thing that Dennis is referring to must be a function of the client (consult box) because it is not coded into the ECU software.
DOn't worry about the details, just buy one of the assembled interfaces. Either the PLMS board, the DIY/ebay board or something similar.
Don't use the Zcontrol board it doesn't handle the ECU tx side of the communications very well.
THe failsafe thing that Dennis is referring to must be a function of the client (consult box) because it is not coded into the ECU software.
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Ozzie
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Re: (RobertsnewQ)
If I was in the USA, I would get Robert to make one for me....
Well worth the dollars spent, so save the hassle of trying to make one yourself..
I believe his is the same as the PLMS board, built here in australia....And yes, it works fine on my Q45
Well worth the dollars spent, so save the hassle of trying to make one yourself..
I believe his is the same as the PLMS board, built here in australia....And yes, it works fine on my Q45
Re: (RobertsnewQ)
FYI:I've ordered the complete kit from http://www.blazt.biz/us/ They offered the consult interface, cable with USB, Datalogger and Datascan for $130 US. What they didn't list was shipping on the site and PayPal showed shipping as free. I was emailed this morning and told I still owed $17 for shipping. So if you are looking for the kit, there is a US distributor, but I can't recommend them based on the "extra" charges tacked on after I'd already sent them cash. Buyer Beware of http://www.blazt.biz/us/
Should have bought from a NICO member, I just wanted the USB based cable and complete kit, and ended up paying way too much for it.
Should have bought from a NICO member, I just wanted the USB based cable and complete kit, and ended up paying way too much for it.
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maxnix
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Re: (Jberger)
Jberger, where have you been? An oldtime NICO member is back.
Re: (IWannaS15)
Hi Folks, Yeah I would really like to include the CONSULT plugs, but I've been hard pressed to find out the manufacture and p/n of them(I *think* Amp/Tyco)... I guess I just figured if someone wants one that bad they would source a single unit for themselves... otherwise I would be buying them just to reship them(I don't like the idea of paying $17-20 for a connector either).
Anyways FWIW, I have a new revision of the board at the manufacture now with USB support and revised RX side for more accurate data conversion. It's smaller than a USB memory stick! I'll keep you guys posted. While I'm here: is there anyone that would absolutely *want* or *need* the serial/DB-9 version? I'm debating another revision of those, but if everyone has USB ports these days, I'd rather focus my attention there.
Cheers,Jamie
Anyways FWIW, I have a new revision of the board at the manufacture now with USB support and revised RX side for more accurate data conversion. It's smaller than a USB memory stick! I'll keep you guys posted. While I'm here: is there anyone that would absolutely *want* or *need* the serial/DB-9 version? I'm debating another revision of those, but if everyone has USB ports these days, I'd rather focus my attention there.
Cheers,Jamie
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Q45tech
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Re: (slipnfall)
Remember all those older cheap laptops had USB 1.0 or serial. Guess the real old ones could use pcmcia/usb cards.
Typing this on a Win 2000 Compaq M700 wirelessly.
Something I always imagined was an inexpensive two-way wireless interface [bluetooth] that could be used in the shops to send data to the desktops at each tech station to drive printers to give customer a real copy of results and display on big screen monitors...........tiny Consult thermal printer that fades.
Typing this on a Win 2000 Compaq M700 wirelessly.
Something I always imagined was an inexpensive two-way wireless interface [bluetooth] that could be used in the shops to send data to the desktops at each tech station to drive printers to give customer a real copy of results and display on big screen monitors...........tiny Consult thermal printer that fades.
Re: (Q45tech)
Yeah I made *sure* my laptop had a serial port when I bought it a few years back... it's certainly old by todays standards, a PII-700Mhz, but it's built like a tank(parly why I'm a diehard IBM Thinkpad fan).
Anyways, I was under the impression that some of the Nissan/Inf. diagnostics were going wireless? Bluetooth is certainly a viable option, though I think the encryption would need a serious re-look. Imagine performing a power ballance test on the a-hole who just cut you off.
Maybe a drive-through after-hours dealer diagnostic(insert credit card here<-------> )?
In all seriousness, I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet. I mean considering GMs' sattellite diagnostics and all, a short-range wireless link would be relatively easy. To what level has the current CONSULT diagnostics progressed? I would imagine they have integrated diagnostics for the CANbus by now?
Anyways, I was under the impression that some of the Nissan/Inf. diagnostics were going wireless? Bluetooth is certainly a viable option, though I think the encryption would need a serious re-look. Imagine performing a power ballance test on the a-hole who just cut you off.
Maybe a drive-through after-hours dealer diagnostic(insert credit card here<-------> )?
In all seriousness, I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet. I mean considering GMs' sattellite diagnostics and all, a short-range wireless link would be relatively easy. To what level has the current CONSULT diagnostics progressed? I would imagine they have integrated diagnostics for the CANbus by now?
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Ozzie
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Re: (slipnfall)
Check here.....
http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/consult_if.shtml
"For the mathematically challenged, if you want the Interface with DataScan software that's $AU137 if you are fortunate enough to be in sunny Oz or $AU144 if you live elsewhere."
AU$144= US$101.86...shipped!(at the current exchange rate, subject to change due to flutuations in the stock market. Please read all small fine print before flaming due to inaccurate pricing)
Thats with the software emailed to you, with ongoing support from the software creator too....
Email the engineer personally at:
[email protected]
You can get the parts seperately, and solder it all together yourself if you want to save some money....
all the details are in the link provided.
Modified by ozzie! at 3:14 AM 3/24/2006
http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/consult_if.shtml
"For the mathematically challenged, if you want the Interface with DataScan software that's $AU137 if you are fortunate enough to be in sunny Oz or $AU144 if you live elsewhere."
AU$144= US$101.86...shipped!(at the current exchange rate, subject to change due to flutuations in the stock market. Please read all small fine print before flaming due to inaccurate pricing)
Thats with the software emailed to you, with ongoing support from the software creator too....
Email the engineer personally at:
[email protected]
You can get the parts seperately, and solder it all together yourself if you want to save some money....
all the details are in the link provided.
Modified by ozzie! at 3:14 AM 3/24/2006
Re: (slipnfall)
afaik still the only source is the japanese shop one. if u could find replacement pins, that cuts costs in half.slipnfall wrote:Anyways FWIW, I have a new revision of the board at the manufacture now with USB support and revised RX side for more accurate data conversion. It's smaller than a USB memory stick! I'll keep you guys posted. While I'm here: is there anyone that would absolutely *want* or *need* the serial/DB-9 version? I'm debating another revision of those, but if everyone has USB ports these days, I'd rather focus my attention there.
Cheers,Jamie
which usb chip are you using? and what tx circuit?
Re: Putting together a Consult ? (squeefoo)
Interesting info "AGAIN" After purchasing new fuel pump from -Joe@ Everything Infiniti and doing the remove and install with the help of these post like this. I would like to know more about this car. And consult is one of the answer's..I'll keep reading and asking questions and following this post.
Cuz... I love this car!! And the love affair will continue..
93Q 136k 2nd owner
Cuz... I love this car!! And the love affair will continue..
93Q 136k 2nd owner